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Hypothetical Question #8696501 09/27/22 01:45 AM
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Gw123 Offline OP
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Just for fun and the sake of conversation, if you ran a outfitting service for whitetail deer and or exotic hunts what kind (if any) of rules would you put into place on rifle/ammo/ shooter qualifications would you put in place for the sake of humane kills and successful hunt?

Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8696506 09/27/22 01:58 AM
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Have them shoot at 100 yards and make sure they are at least sighted in.


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8696537 09/27/22 02:38 AM
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I’ve run into a bunch of hunters that are lousy shots guiding over the years. Always offer up a range to “check zero” on your customers rifles and you’ll hopefully find them up front. Then you can set them up for success by limiting them to short shots. Doesn’t always work. Be prepared to pitch in and back them up when needed.


To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: ntxtrapper] #8696540 09/27/22 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Have them shoot at 100 yards and make sure they are at least sighted in.


And expect to probably have to site in 1/3 of them yourself


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8696542 09/27/22 02:46 AM
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Rifle inspection
Range sight in
Offer up my rifle

Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: ntxtrapper] #8696711 09/27/22 01:08 PM
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Mr. T. Offline
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Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
Have them shoot at 100 yards and make sure they are at least sighted in.

Yes, require them to shoot at a range. Nothing you can do about buck fever during the hunt.


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8696873 09/27/22 03:59 PM
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freerange Online Content
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Im not sure how common it is, but I think some type qualification is a good idea. Im the one thats usually responsible, in charge, on leases that I hunt and ive never required anything, but its crossed my mind.
A lease situation is definitely different than what you asked about, since a lease is normally with people you would know and trust.

Last edited by freerange; 09/27/22 04:01 PM.

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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8696899 09/27/22 04:24 PM
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under your circumstances, I would have every hunter shoot at a range (likely distance of normal shots during hunt) to insure the gun/hunter can hit what they are intending to shoot as a minimum. I would also state if they draw blood, that counts towards an animal taken even if it's not found.

recently we had a hunter on our MLD place that shot a buck, found blood and looked for hours in thick yaupon but never found it. Shot a 2nd buck, same issue. Lease manager asked for his buck tag since he had already shot and wounded 2. Same guy also shot 2 nubbin bucks thinking they were does.

rules are put in place to protect the LO/Lease Manager/Outfitter and the good of the ranch IMO


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8696995 09/27/22 06:30 PM
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Texan Til I Die Offline
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I would also have a medium bore, mild recoil type rifle like a 7-08 or 6.5CM available as a loaner in case someone showed up with a big boomer and had obvious issues with recoil sensitivity on the range.


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8697044 09/27/22 07:18 PM
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For starters - I won't let anyone shoot at my ranches unless they can hit 3 shots within 3" of bullseye at 100 yards.


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8697262 09/28/22 12:07 AM
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When I was responsible for guiding a pretty large number of hunters each year I always made them "check zero" before they were allowed to hunt. I could see if they could at least hit the target and if their gun was sighted in. It never ceased to amaze me how many showed up without having checked zero that season and with their guns shooting off. I have a 7mm-08 loaner/truck rifle that I load 120 grain Ballistic tip bullets for. It is a light recoiling accurate rifle. The folks that could not shoot well were encouraged to try my rifle. I had to be diplomatic and had several customers decline. Those guys normally were shooting some type of Magnum and could not shoot them well. Stand selection and hunting locations were then based on how well I thought the customer could shoot and how agreeable they were to taking suggestions. The guys that I could tell were not going to be open to suggestions and could not shoot well got to hunt in locations where I knew shots could not be long and hopefully would be easier. My job was to make sure everyone was safe, had a good time, and do my best to put them on game. I had to deal with a number of ego's and had to be careful to not upset anyone if possible.

The folks that listened to me and the other guides got the best opportunities. I could not even begin to count how many animals were cleanly taken with my loaner rifle. We were normally happy when someone showed up with a well worn but well cared for rifle with a solid reasonable power scope. We dreaded the guys that showed up with a brand new wizz bang magnum with a Hubble telescope on top claiming they could hit the bullseye every time at 500 yards.

One other thing we always suggested to the hunters with variable scopes is that they not set them higher than 6 power. The ones that would listen to suggestions were normally more sucessful.

Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8698074 09/29/22 06:09 AM
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I would have a range and make them shoot before the hunt. I would make it very clear up front that it was mandatory and that they could spend all afternoon at the range if they wanted and fire hundreds of rounds if need be but they were not hunting until they put 3 consecutive shots in a 5” circle at 100 yards.

I have never guided any hunts that require a rifle but I have guided thousands of waterfowl hunters. I owned a guide service for 7 years and while I always strived to give customers the best hunt possible and have them enjoy themselves you have to have a set of rules and stick to them no matter how pissed people get.

A 5” target is a piece of cake at 100 yards. If someone can’t hit that from a calm, relaxed bench rest they really have no business trying to hunt until they are better prepared. Realistically people should be able to do a lot better than that but it isn’t a shooting competition. Hitting a 5“ target will get the job done. If they struggled with the 5” target I would be sure not to put them in situations where they had to make farther shots. On they other hand if they nailing the bullseye with a 3/4” group I would know they could handle longer shots.

Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Sewer rat] #8698082 09/29/22 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Sewer rat
I have never guided any hunts that require a rifle but I have guided thousands of waterfowl hunters. I owned a guide service for 7 years and while I always strived to give customers the best hunt possible and have them enjoy themselves you have to have a set of rules and stick to them no matter how pissed people get.


Boy howdy, truth right there. Solid, golden advice. After the 1st year, you may end up with rules you never thought were going to be necessary. Believe me here. Been there done that.

On the part of sighting in, we had a range where they could choose to shoot, but we didn't make 'em do it. if they drew blood, they drew blood. I gots pretty good at trailing.

Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8698242 09/29/22 03:43 PM
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Assuming you might be guiding in other states where feeders are not legal, I would ask them if they use them where they usually hunt to see if there's a need to set expectations.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 09/29/22 03:46 PM.

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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Texan Til I Die] #8698257 09/29/22 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Texan Til I Die
I would also have a medium bore, mild recoil type rifle like a 7-08 or 6.5CM available as a loaner in case someone showed up with a big boomer and had obvious issues with recoil sensitivity on the range.


100% and put a suppressor on it if you can. It will save outfitter hearing and make communication more effective and efficient.

Op-
Probably the biggest issue I’ve seen in camps are clients over rifled. When over ego’ed or under educated clients wound and loose deer it makes for unhappy non-tipping and non-referring clients.

Number 2 is before Penciling them in for a date, ask the client for a reference. Setting the exception that you don’t care how green their money up front is fixes a lot of issues

End of the day most guides are their to save client from their selves. I had a guide remind me of this two weeks ago. He simply reminded me of where I was hunting and that I didn’t and shouldn’t be as aggressive as I was being. In that area the animal density was a lot greater then what I was used too. Overly aggressive blows out not just target animals but others we didn’t know about, for reference I was archery elk hunting. He was right and once I set back and just let it happen, instead of trying to make it happen, I was passing on multiple opportunities a day.


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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8700107 10/02/22 03:24 PM
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The OP said shooter qualifications. That may be me. I’m 79 yoa, went through some really nasty surgery last year which has affected me in a lot of ways. I’m practicing shooting in my back yard with 22 colibri (no powder) and doing ok but realize that I’m no longer as good as I was pre surgery.

I’ve decided to not hunt archery season with my XBow. I’ll be hunting closer to a feeder with my rifle. I now realize what those “old” guys said when they realized that they weren’t the man they used to be. I own my place so have no restrictions other than common sense and reality.

But, I’m still cute and lovable

Last edited by Dave Davidson; 10/02/22 03:25 PM.

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Re: Hypothetical Question [Re: Gw123] #8703057 10/06/22 08:47 PM
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I have been on one guided hunt in Africa where I "hired" a gun. I was notified that would be required to shoot it to the PH's satisfaction prior to the hunt. When we went to the range, the PH loaded the gun and handed it to me. I unloaded the gun and asked it I could dry fire it before firing a live round and he said sure. After I two dry fires he said I didn't need to shoot...apparently, he was "satisfied." I did shoot one round so that I was satisfied.

I would require a new hunter to shoot (3 shots within 3 inches seems like a good standard) and I would pay as much attention to how the hunter handled the rifle, ammo, etc. as to how well they shot. I am amazed by how many experienced hunter don't practice good safety standards, much less some newbie hunters that might be utilizing an outfitter/guide.

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