A shooter says, "I want the flattest trajectory for long range shooting". I hear this comment all the time from shooters. However, it's an oxymoron. I always follow it up with a question, What is "long range" for you? Zero to 300 yards, zero to 600 yards, or out to 1000 yards, or more? (The definition of "long range" by the NRA is anything longer than 600 yards. I also use this 600 yards or more as "long range".) But their answer determines what bullet options we need to be looking at. How "flat" a round shoots short range is simply based on speed and speed alone. You can take any cartridge and put a light weight bullet in it and have the flattest trajectory possible from 0-300 yards. But it makes for a poor choice for long range shooting (600 yards+). The reason why is because the light weight bullets have much more drag in flight and slow down very quickly. This gives you much more drop and more wind drift at long range. If their answer is 0-300 yards, the light and fast is the flattest option.

But, when you get into the 500+ yards, we need to be looking at other bullet options that will bridge the gap some and select bullets that will minimize your drop and wind drift at the longer distances. Also, a heavier and higher BC bullet will retain more energy on target at those longer ranges. Yes, it will not shoot as flat from 0-300 yards, but you get the performance gain at the longer distances.

True long-range shooters understand the trade-off. I don't know of anybody that routinely shoots 600-1000 or more yards that isn't using heavy-for-caliber bullets in a standard rifle. If you're talking about the AR world, then the issue becomes heavy-for-gun. Take for example Jason's .308 setup. 16" barrel, he's shooting the 155s which are barely medium weight for .308 cal, but he's maximizing the combination of velocity and BC for that setup. I could see someone with a 20" 6.5 also looking more at the 130s or 135 Atip instead of the 143/147, to get just a touch more velocity, but I bet if there was any advantage it wouldn't show up until you got way out there and even then it would likely be negligible without a bigger difference in weight.

I would assume it's already been tried and dismissed, but what about creating a light-weight bullet with a high BC? Make a hollow 115-120gr 6.5 bullet that's .625? I guess you'd be trading windage loss for elevation gain as the wind worked on it.

I shot a good candidate early this morning. 7MM RUM 162 ELDX at 3360 fps from 26 inch barrel.... should do the trick.

1000 yds, 20MPH 90degree wind - 194" of drop, 98" of drift


Berger 195, .755 BC, (I had trouble getting good velocity on this from google, ran it for 2900-3150)

1000 yds, 20MPH 90degree wind - 205-225" of drop, 82-88" of drift. If you can get it to 3150 you'd trade 11" of drop for 16" of wind drift.

I usually point people to a 25-06 if they tell me they want the flattest shooting gun they can find for deer.

The response I've gotten when I asked them what they consider long range has been all over the map.

Chad, I appreciate the explanation. I assume for long range shooters that is very basic information. Even for me, that’s not a LR shooter, I have learned this basic info just so I can defend my thinking on 300 and in. For a novice it’s really good to understand this thinking. For me to properly talk among shooters, it’s important to know my audience and helpful to understand the filters they see things through. It would be great if that worked both ways…..

Here’s three 3-shot groups with the Berger 195s out of my 28 Nosler during load development.







I haven’t chronographed the rifle in a while, but it’s definitely sped up since then.

I posted this for a more basic understanding to help a shooter with their wants and what will fill their needs. For example, I have some 28 Nosler shooters who only want the 140 to 150 grain bullets doing 3400-3500+ fps for the flattest trajectory possible. But they only shoot 300 and in. Some want to expand their range, and the 150 ELD-X isn't a bad choice for longer ranges and would work well for that weight bullet going that fast. But for long range with a 28 Nosler, it's hard to beat the 180 to 195 grain 7mm bullet options.

I loaded some 30-06 accelerator rounds (.224", 55 grain SP bullet loaded in a sabot) recently for a guy that said his gun was set up for this for 1000 yards. He was adamant about it and knew exactly what he wanted and that was it. I loaded them up and shipped them out.

That’s where started out with my 28 Nosler but once it sped up it was over 3200 fps and then when it got over 95 degrees primers started popping and ruined some brass.so I backed off to 3080fps with 195’s and all was good.
Mine was throated long just for 195’s and a 28 inch barrel too so if your running close to 3200 brass won’t last too long... barrel won’t either but for hunting it’s ok

Ya'll are some Ricky Bobby's!

I'm pertty sure the further it's gotta go, the higher you gotta lob it.

I agree, "flat" matters to 300 yards.

After that, weight, BC, and as much MV as possible is what's going to get it done. After 300 yards, the right scope, and knowing how to use it takes over, and "flat" is irrelevant.

My 140 gr 6.5 Creedmoor is 2.6 Mils at 500 yards.

My 162 gr 7mm-08 A.I. is 3.0 Mils at 500 yards.

So what?

When I was routinely watching Hodnet's "students" they would predominately use 175's in their .308's and mostly NF scopes. Velocity was a modest 2700. Hodnett's facility was what I'd best describe as a wagon wheel design where the shooter's benches were at the "hub", and the spokes were each a targeted lane out to 2000 meters. They could shoot every conceivable wind situation without moving from the 'hub" location. They wouldn't make a first round hit every time, as the wind is always doing something tricky in that country. BUT, don't let them shoot twice.

To many people want to buy their way into the long range game without first becoming long range shooters. If that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. Same with beginning golfers that are convinced better clubs are the key to improvement vs. lessons and practice. Good equipment is important, good practice is more important.

That's a fact. Which is why I am doing what I am doing teaching how-to. Also why I have a rental rifle. The smartest ones come learn how, use my rig, ask lots of questions, take notes, then go spend their money wisely.

Invest $7k in a rig, bring it out, and we can't repeatedly hit anything past 400 yards. Scope and ammo are usually what it holding it back.

Anyone can go into Cabelas, spend as little as $1500 on the right pieces, and be hitting to the end of my range by lunch time.

Hard to argue with a 6 creedmoor.. in all honesty its about the flatest shooting caliber I ever been around.
Those 500 yard plate shoots senior hosts, guys using half the elevation dial I am with a 6.5 cm

Lots of good stuff in this thread and I get a kick out of these guys thinking a 308 168 gr is the kind of the mile caliber

Tika, vortex, and some hornady 7-08 prolly slide in under $1500
Best scope out there them vortexes 😭😭😉

But it's not near as chic as the others.