texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
nmmuledeerhunter, Dzia-Dzia, TraeMartin, Beatixre, MooseSteed
71989 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,788
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 65,417
stxranchman 60,296
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Stub 43,769
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics537,041
Posts9,719,733
Members86,989
Most Online25,604
Feb 12th, 2024
Print Thread
All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges #8680524 09/04/22 03:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
Looking for feedback on some of the new (and old) all copper / lead free bullets for .30 caliber.

Specifically 308.

We are hoping to get drawn to go on an Elk hunt and just found out that we must use lead free. Had planned on using a 178 gr ELD-X, but now looking for other ideas.

Must be a factory load also.

I have some Barnes 150 gr TTSX BT, but the rifle doesn't like it as much. Twist rate is 1:12 in a 22 barrel.

Been looking at some of the new Hornady cartridges:
165 gr CX in the outfitter line (BC of .440)
165 gr CX in the superformance (same BC)
165 gr ECX in International (no published BC but has a flat polymer tip)

Would like some input here so I can try to locate a box and see how it behaves.

Thx in advance.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680582 09/04/22 12:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,306
D
DLALLDER Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
D
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,306
Look at LEHIGH all copper bullets.





Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680626 09/04/22 01:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11 Online Shocked
junior
Online Shocked
junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
Wilson Combat shows Barnes TTSX 168gr ammo in stock. A call to them and I bet they could tell you if that would be suitable for your twist rate.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680637 09/04/22 01:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
I would definiy want to stay near the lighter end to keep velocity up.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680648 09/04/22 02:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
Why are you stuck on factory ammo?


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680659 09/04/22 02:17 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
G
GusWayne Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
G
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
At 1 time the only bullets I could get for my 6.5 cm were those California, Commie all copper bullets...

So I shot about a 200 lb pig w one and it pencil holed in and out but the pig did die.

So to confirm what I saw, I stacked the dead pig back up and backed up 100 yards and shot it again

It pencil holed in and out again...

Thats the only 2 times I have used those copper bullets on won't use them anymore

These were Hornady bullets

Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: J.G.] #8680714 09/04/22 03:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
Originally Posted by J.G.
Why are you stuck on factory ammo?


Insurance for the location we will be hunting does not allow handloads. Must be factory load so I'm limited to what is off the shelf.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: kmon11] #8680716 09/04/22 03:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
Originally Posted by kmon11
Wilson Combat shows Barnes TTSX 168gr ammo in stock. A call to them and I bet they could tell you if that would be suitable for your twist rate.





Thank you... found it.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680730 09/04/22 03:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
Originally Posted by TXBoss
Originally Posted by J.G.
Why are you stuck on factory ammo?


Insurance for the location we will be hunting does not allow handloads. Must be factory load so I'm limited to what is off the shelf.



What a shame.

Competent hand loaders make more consistent and safer ammo than mass production ammo.


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680733 09/04/22 03:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
There were several handloaders in our group and they were quite disappointed.

Still... fortunate to get an opportunity. Just need to get something in the next week to test some rounds.

Last edited by TXBoss; 09/04/22 03:46 PM.

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680794 09/04/22 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
Originally Posted by TXBoss
There were several handloaders in our group and they were quite disappointed.


I can imagine. They just made some great shooting rifles likely very average.

Good luck, I’d likely pass on any hunt with rules like that. Tells me the people running it aren’t all that intelligent, but also get their ranch their rules.

To your question, Wilson has scratched and clawed to keep stuff in stock…great place to start looking. Natchez, Grafs and Midsouth are other places to dig into. I hope you have a great hunt!


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680808 09/04/22 05:43 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown Online Content
kind of a big deal
Online Content
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
Hand load in a factory box…


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8680811 09/04/22 05:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Hand load in a factory box…

I like the way you think up


It's hell eatin em live
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680814 09/04/22 05:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
R
redchevy Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
R
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
The old sst’s and all copper gmx looked about the same too lol

Last edited by redchevy; 09/04/22 05:47 PM.

It's hell eatin em live
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680831 09/04/22 06:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
Just spoke to Mr. Wilson... he's got some Barnes that will likely fit the bill. Thx for feedback.

Last edited by TXBoss; 09/04/22 06:20 PM.

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: Judd] #8680833 09/04/22 06:24 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G. Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
Originally Posted by Judd
Originally Posted by TXBoss
There were several handloaders in our group and they were quite disappointed.


I can imagine. They just made some great shooting rifles likely very average.

Good luck, I’d likely pass on any hunt with rules like that. Tells me the people running it aren’t all that intelligent, but also get their ranch their rules.


Yup!

If you recall, every time I posted a match at my range I said, "hand loads are not only allowed, they are encouraged!"

We hunted the Longfellow Ranch a few years ago. They never asked about our ammo, but they did have a qualification that was more than reasonable. Go to the range with a guide. Tell him where your bullet will land on 100 yard paper, and then hit a 10" plate at 300 yards. Can't do that, you're not hunting here. Of course, with our hand loads we each made those two shots, then played on the range out to a mile. The guide said "yall are going to be just fine, hell we've never seen anyone shoot that far before."


[Linked Image]
800 Yard Steel Range
Precision Rifle Instruction
Memberships and Classes Available
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680853 09/04/22 06:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 66
M
mcdil Offline
Outdoorsman
Offline
Outdoorsman
M
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 66
Wow. That's a bit bizarre as to the reason for not being able to use hand loads. That's unfortunate, for sure. We don't have an ammunition manufacturer working with us at this time, but that's something over the next two years we really want to investigate, as we prefer to remain at the component level only, focusing on what we do best. Our 135gr, 30 cal Afterburner is specifically designed to maximize the performance of 1:12" twist 30 cals, and they were just launched at the end of last month. We currently have a client working something up in his 308 Win, and from everything I've seen from him in the past, I expect the documentation of the process to be superb.

The 135gr produces a short range doppler G7 of .216 out of our 1:10" 300 WM from 3250-3450 fps. Conversely, we've shot the 150gr TTSX at a G7 of .202, making the 135gr more aerodynamic, even at two full weight classes lighter. The Afterburner is designed to maximize terminal performance above all else, and this 135gr is sufficient up to and including moose. Our front is designed to shed petals with a flat meplat for the ultimate in both cavitating trauma and penetration. Below are two snap shots of the remaining shanks from our 153gr (shares the exact same front nose as the 135gr) at two impact velocity extremes in gel. Towards the lower end of the impact velocity spectrum, near our minimum of 1650 fps, the front gets a little "chippy", a function of copper designed to fracture when fired at lower velocities. The petals are fewer and much larger in this scenario allowing significant damage on long range broadside shots from both the shank and the petals. On the opposite end, the Afterburner cannot be driven too fast. The faster the more destructive the trauma, and the deeper the penetration. That's a very broad operating band for a mono, with the added benefit of an ultra-aerodynamic design maximizing the effect.

Good luck on your hunt!

Quick edit: I forgot to mention, I'd stay with 150-class factory bullets in your 1:12" twist for monos. Shooting ours, 135gr is the max for 1:12", but ours are very long and profiled in comparison. You may experience undesirable terminal results with that 1:12" twist with the longer monos as the bullet may tumble or deviate during penetration and/or not properly expand.

https://www.apex-outdoors.com/product-page/afterburner-308-135-gr?origin=notification

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Last edited by mcdil; 09/04/22 07:01 PM. Reason: Forgot factory recommendations on current twist rate

Mark

Shoot for No Compromises

www.apex-outdoors.com
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680902 09/04/22 09:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss Offline OP
Pro Tracker
OP Offline
Pro Tracker
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
Thanks for input all. Didn't want to get too far off on handloads vs factory ammo and who allows vs who doesn't.

Still looking for any feedback on the Hornady bullets (CX snd ECX)? Rifle patterned well with the 178 gr ELD-X and may try to find a box (Rifle gear may have it) and see how it behaves also.


"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8680952 09/04/22 10:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,168
S
scottfromdallas Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
S
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,168
Those CX just came out this year so likely no one here has used them on game. I’m sure they are similar to a TTSX in performance. I have heard a lot of negative feedback on this forum about super performance ammunition so I would probably stick to the outfitter version. You might email Hornady and get some feedback just to make sure a 12 twist will stabilize.

Federal has Trophy Copper and Norma and Evostrike so they may be an option if the 165 CX won’t work in a 12 twist.



Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8681176 09/05/22 11:24 AM
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 105
C
ChasCZ Online Content
Woodsman
Online Content
Woodsman
C
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 105

Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8681352 09/05/22 04:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547
K
KK30RAR Offline
Tracker
Offline
Tracker
K
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547
Academy sells the Hornady 165gr outfitter


Pulsar xq50 trail
Pulsar xq30f Helion
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8681355 09/05/22 04:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
J
Judd Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
Online Confused
#1 Creedmoor Fan
J
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Hand load in a factory box…


^^^ this is why I run with outlaw friends, for their genius ideas grin

Problem solved.


Originally Posted by Phil Robertson
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: Judd] #8681392 09/05/22 06:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11 Online Shocked
junior
Online Shocked
junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
Originally Posted by Judd
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Hand load in a factory box…


^^^ this is why I run with outlaw friends, for their genius ideas grin

Problem solved.


There is a very valid reason for the requirements of factory ammo on this hunt that I think can be shared later. Lets just stick to factory ammo for this one.


lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true
Mainstream news might be fun to watch
Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges [Re: TXBoss] #8681398 09/05/22 06:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 603
A
ASIC777 Online Happy
Tracker
Online Happy
Tracker
A
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 603
Chad is a licensed reloader. Would his loads count as "factory"?


Lifetime NRA Member
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2024 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3