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All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
#8680524
09/04/22 03:49 AM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss
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Looking for feedback on some of the new (and old) all copper / lead free bullets for .30 caliber.
Specifically 308.
We are hoping to get drawn to go on an Elk hunt and just found out that we must use lead free. Had planned on using a 178 gr ELD-X, but now looking for other ideas.
Must be a factory load also.
I have some Barnes 150 gr TTSX BT, but the rifle doesn't like it as much. Twist rate is 1:12 in a 22 barrel.
Been looking at some of the new Hornady cartridges: 165 gr CX in the outfitter line (BC of .440) 165 gr CX in the superformance (same BC) 165 gr ECX in International (no published BC but has a flat polymer tip)
Would like some input here so I can try to locate a box and see how it behaves.
Thx in advance.
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680582
09/04/22 12:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,306
DLALLDER
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,306 |
Look at LEHIGH all copper bullets.
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680626
09/04/22 01:32 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
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Wilson Combat shows Barnes TTSX 168gr ammo in stock. A call to them and I bet they could tell you if that would be suitable for your twist rate.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680637
09/04/22 01:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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I would definiy want to stay near the lighter end to keep velocity up.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680648
09/04/22 02:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
THF Celebrity
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Why are you stuck on factory ammo?
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680659
09/04/22 02:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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At 1 time the only bullets I could get for my 6.5 cm were those California, Commie all copper bullets...
So I shot about a 200 lb pig w one and it pencil holed in and out but the pig did die.
So to confirm what I saw, I stacked the dead pig back up and backed up 100 yards and shot it again
It pencil holed in and out again...
Thats the only 2 times I have used those copper bullets on won't use them anymore
These were Hornady bullets
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: J.G.]
#8680714
09/04/22 03:23 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss
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Why are you stuck on factory ammo? Insurance for the location we will be hunting does not allow handloads. Must be factory load so I'm limited to what is off the shelf.
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: kmon11]
#8680716
09/04/22 03:27 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss
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Wilson Combat shows Barnes TTSX 168gr ammo in stock. A call to them and I bet they could tell you if that would be suitable for your twist rate.
Thank you... found it.
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680730
09/04/22 03:41 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
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Why are you stuck on factory ammo? Insurance for the location we will be hunting does not allow handloads. Must be factory load so I'm limited to what is off the shelf. What a shame. Competent hand loaders make more consistent and safer ammo than mass production ammo.
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680733
09/04/22 03:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss
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There were several handloaders in our group and they were quite disappointed.
Still... fortunate to get an opportunity. Just need to get something in the next week to test some rounds.
Last edited by TXBoss; 09/04/22 03:46 PM.
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680794
09/04/22 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
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There were several handloaders in our group and they were quite disappointed. I can imagine. They just made some great shooting rifles likely very average. Good luck, I’d likely pass on any hunt with rules like that. Tells me the people running it aren’t all that intelligent, but also get their ranch their rules. To your question, Wilson has scratched and clawed to keep stuff in stock…great place to start looking. Natchez, Grafs and Midsouth are other places to dig into. I hope you have a great hunt!
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680808
09/04/22 05:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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Hand load in a factory box…
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8680811
09/04/22 05:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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Hand load in a factory box… I like the way you think
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680814
09/04/22 05:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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The old sst’s and all copper gmx looked about the same too lol
Last edited by redchevy; 09/04/22 05:47 PM.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680831
09/04/22 06:16 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss
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Just spoke to Mr. Wilson... he's got some Barnes that will likely fit the bill. Thx for feedback.
Last edited by TXBoss; 09/04/22 06:20 PM.
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: Judd]
#8680833
09/04/22 06:24 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,085
J.G.
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There were several handloaders in our group and they were quite disappointed. I can imagine. They just made some great shooting rifles likely very average. Good luck, I’d likely pass on any hunt with rules like that. Tells me the people running it aren’t all that intelligent, but also get their ranch their rules. Yup! If you recall, every time I posted a match at my range I said, "hand loads are not only allowed, they are encouraged!" We hunted the Longfellow Ranch a few years ago. They never asked about our ammo, but they did have a qualification that was more than reasonable. Go to the range with a guide. Tell him where your bullet will land on 100 yard paper, and then hit a 10" plate at 300 yards. Can't do that, you're not hunting here. Of course, with our hand loads we each made those two shots, then played on the range out to a mile. The guide said "yall are going to be just fine, hell we've never seen anyone shoot that far before."
800 Yard Steel Range Precision Rifle Instruction Memberships and Classes Available
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680853
09/04/22 06:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 66
mcdil
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
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Wow. That's a bit bizarre as to the reason for not being able to use hand loads. That's unfortunate, for sure. We don't have an ammunition manufacturer working with us at this time, but that's something over the next two years we really want to investigate, as we prefer to remain at the component level only, focusing on what we do best. Our 135gr, 30 cal Afterburner is specifically designed to maximize the performance of 1:12" twist 30 cals, and they were just launched at the end of last month. We currently have a client working something up in his 308 Win, and from everything I've seen from him in the past, I expect the documentation of the process to be superb. The 135gr produces a short range doppler G7 of .216 out of our 1:10" 300 WM from 3250-3450 fps. Conversely, we've shot the 150gr TTSX at a G7 of .202, making the 135gr more aerodynamic, even at two full weight classes lighter. The Afterburner is designed to maximize terminal performance above all else, and this 135gr is sufficient up to and including moose. Our front is designed to shed petals with a flat meplat for the ultimate in both cavitating trauma and penetration. Below are two snap shots of the remaining shanks from our 153gr (shares the exact same front nose as the 135gr) at two impact velocity extremes in gel. Towards the lower end of the impact velocity spectrum, near our minimum of 1650 fps, the front gets a little "chippy", a function of copper designed to fracture when fired at lower velocities. The petals are fewer and much larger in this scenario allowing significant damage on long range broadside shots from both the shank and the petals. On the opposite end, the Afterburner cannot be driven too fast. The faster the more destructive the trauma, and the deeper the penetration. That's a very broad operating band for a mono, with the added benefit of an ultra-aerodynamic design maximizing the effect. Good luck on your hunt! Quick edit: I forgot to mention, I'd stay with 150-class factory bullets in your 1:12" twist for monos. Shooting ours, 135gr is the max for 1:12", but ours are very long and profiled in comparison. You may experience undesirable terminal results with that 1:12" twist with the longer monos as the bullet may tumble or deviate during penetration and/or not properly expand. https://www.apex-outdoors.com/product-page/afterburner-308-135-gr?origin=notification
Last edited by mcdil; 09/04/22 07:01 PM. Reason: Forgot factory recommendations on current twist rate
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680902
09/04/22 09:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 1,036
TXBoss
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Thanks for input all. Didn't want to get too far off on handloads vs factory ammo and who allows vs who doesn't.
Still looking for any feedback on the Hornady bullets (CX snd ECX)? Rifle patterned well with the 178 gr ELD-X and may try to find a box (Rifle gear may have it) and see how it behaves also.
"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that comes from bad judgment..." - W. Rogers
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8680952
09/04/22 10:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5,168
scottfromdallas
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 5,168 |
Those CX just came out this year so likely no one here has used them on game. I’m sure they are similar to a TTSX in performance. I have heard a lot of negative feedback on this forum about super performance ammunition so I would probably stick to the outfitter version. You might email Hornady and get some feedback just to make sure a 12 twist will stabilize.
Federal has Trophy Copper and Norma and Evostrike so they may be an option if the 165 CX won’t work in a 12 twist.
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8681176
09/05/22 11:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 105
ChasCZ
Woodsman
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Woodsman
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8681352
09/05/22 04:40 PM
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Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 547
KK30RAR
Tracker
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Tracker
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Academy sells the Hornady 165gr outfitter
Pulsar xq50 trail Pulsar xq30f Helion
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8681355
09/05/22 04:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169
Judd
#1 Creedmoor Fan
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#1 Creedmoor Fan
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,169 |
Hand load in a factory box… ^^^ this is why I run with outlaw friends, for their genius ideas Problem solved.
Don't let your ears hear what your eyes didn't see, and don't let your mouth say what your heart doesn't feel
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: Judd]
#8681392
09/05/22 06:01 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442
kmon11
junior
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junior
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,442 |
Hand load in a factory box… ^^^ this is why I run with outlaw friends, for their genius ideas Problem solved. There is a very valid reason for the requirements of factory ammo on this hunt that I think can be shared later. Lets just stick to factory ammo for this one.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: All Copper / Lead Free 308 Bullets / Cartridges
[Re: TXBoss]
#8681398
09/05/22 06:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 603
ASIC777
Tracker
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Tracker
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Chad is a licensed reloader. Would his loads count as "factory"?
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