I just got word from my main supplier that Hodgdon is discontinuing the IMR Enduron line of powders going forward- IMR4166 / IMR4451 / IMR4955 / IMR7977 / IMR8133. This sucks, because I really liked 8133 and 4451. 7977 was ok, but 8133 was a great Retumbo substitute.

8133 is good stuff...

Didn't your supplier say the same thing about some of the Reloader lines (specifically Reloader 16) not to terribly long ago, because I'm seeing it pop up every once in a while. Meaning...maybe they are being fed a line of bullshhhh????

I was liking 4166 for the Grendel, bought some to try, worked up a load that shot well enough 3/4MOA with 123gr SST.

I really liked 4451 as well. Very easy to work with. Peaked a bit earlier than most 4350 derivatives, which could be a good thing with some loads. Unfortunate for sure.

I haven't seen R16 in long time. I don't recall discussions on that one. I spoke to my Hodgdon rep after my first post, and he confirmed they are fully discontinuing the Enduron line of powders. He said they no longer have the ability to make them.

I bought 4451 because H4350 was never in stock. I guess that alternative is now gone.

I have an unopened pound of 4451. I would swap it to someone who already has a good load with it for a pound of one of the powders I use. I’m not hurting for powder but if it will help someone out PM me.

Whatcha need in trade?

You have any H-4895?
There are several more that I use. Watcha got?

Off the top of my head:
Rifle powders
Varget
H-4895
8208-XBR
Retumbo but I know it has been an Easter egg hunt…

Pistol powder
Accurate #7
Power pistol
H-110
W231

Shotgun
WSF
H-110

H-4895 is the one I have the shortest supply of.

It could’ve been someone else but you’re our resident dude with the industry news

I caught some from midsouth about a month ago. Lucky!

I've got some Retumbo. Where are you located?

I could be mistaken but I think most of the powder suppliers in the US don't make most of the powders that they sell. I believe Adi out of New Zealand or Australia is the major supplier for canister powders in the US.

None of the powders that you listed as being discontinued are ones that I can remember using.

Just outside of Trinity, Tx. I’m afraid on the other side of the state from you.

H-110 is the only one on your list I could trade

The only Enduron powder I used more than a one lb container of has been IMR 4166 which is an alternative to Varget and ARComp.
I wonder if the fact these are made in Canada has anything to do with the discontinued status?

something fishy is going on in the gunpowder market. Stuff like this shouldn't still be happening in a normal time. I guess factory ammo is still catching up.

OR

Is this another attempt to subevent our hobby (livelihood in some cases) ?

Same here. I went to 4166 a couple years ago when Varget disappeared. This is an unfortunate situation.

Chad, did your supplier hint at any reason for this? I have developed some very good loads with these powders.

Correct. Hodgdon doesn't make any powder. They distribute it. St. Marks in FL makes a lot of the ball powders. ADI in Australia makes the H series of powders. IMR is made in Canada. The IMR plant had a fire/explosion last October that shut it down. I have not heard anything more on that. A plant in Sweden makes the Alliant powders, but Alliant powder has been very difficult to find.

He simply said they no longer had the ability to make these powders.

I wonder if this will affect the Hodgdon Extreme lines, and the Winchester powders with similar temperature insensitivity, and lot to lot consistency.

Those powders are made in a different location/country. The only effect it will have is more demand on the other powders.

Very interesting.

I would think it would have to be: 1) an equipment loss situation, 2) a production capacity situation, 3) a raw material situation, or 4) a policy situation (i.e. the country of production is doing something that prevents continued production). In any case, I'm now super curious why.

Have these powder issues been going on TOOOOO long?

Chad, what do you think, "normal" issues or monkey business?