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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: LonestarCobra] #8653386 08/01/22 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by LonestarCobra
Originally Posted by FiremanJG
There's no X high at 100 around here. Wherever someone wants something zeroed, that's the distance it will be zeroed. 100, 150, 200, 250, 300. I will get it on the money at any distance. And then figure out the differences in closer, or out farther. Doesn't matter what scope it is.


That’s how I prefer it.

I cannot remember how many times I have heard put it 1” high at 100, and your dead on at 200. I can’t think of a rifle I have where that is the case, and all are different.


Exactly!

When you got to Mils, fairly fast cartridges zeroed at 100 yards are .4 Mil at 200 yards.

.4 Mil up at 100 yards is 1.44" high. (1 1/2 MOA)

Whole lot of other cartridges are .5 Mil at 200 yards.

Come up .5 Mil at 100 yards and that's 1.8" (1 3/4 MOA)


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: LonestarCobra] #8653423 08/01/22 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by LonestarCobra


I cannot remember how many times I have heard put it 1” high at 100, and your dead on at 200. I can’t think of a rifle I have where that is the case, and all are different.


Whatever floats a guys boat. I have scopes I dial with as well. Or, you could be 2" high at 100 which equals 215 zero, gives you 6.5" low at 300, which is the max shot distance the OP dictated. All this considering a 7-08/140AB at 2800fps. Given a decent sized whitetail has roughly an 8" kill zone, not much messing around with anything other than a slightly higher hold behind/through the shoulder.

Works pretty good at 100 yds too......
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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653446 08/01/22 02:27 AM
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And factor in that sometimes a fellow only has seconds to make the shot. No time for a RF or dialing. I have been in that situation many times, but mostly in hunting on narrow pipelines in heavily wooded areas. Here in wide open Texas a fellow may have more time.

Probably the biggest deer I ever shot was in my view for maybe 4 seconds. I looked left and there he was, almost across the road. I raised the rifle, put the crosshairs on his chest and fired. Caught him in the heart. 268 yards, ranged later. I had let one get away in a situation like that the previous season, when I spent too long thinking and fiddling with the binoculars.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: 603Country] #8653454 08/01/22 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
And factor in that sometimes a fellow only has seconds to make the shot. No time for a RF or dialing. I have been in that situation many times, but mostly in hunting on narrow pipelines in heavily wooded areas. Here in wide open Texas a fellow may have more time.

Probably the biggest deer I ever shot was in my view for maybe 4 seconds. I looked left and there he was, almost across the road. I raised the rifle, put the crosshairs on his chest and fired. Caught him in the heart. 268 yards, ranged later. I had let one get away in a situation like that the previous season, when I spent too long thinking and fiddling with the binoculars.


Same discussion, different day.

Spend enough rounds behind a Mil reticle and holds happen very fast.

Range your area when there's no animals.

Something shows up, hold the proper correction and squeeze.

268 yards with my most used rifle is a .8 Mil hold. No guessing, no approximation, on the money.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653460 08/01/22 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Ive got another thread going in Firearms about buying a scope but I realized I needed to first learn a little more about parallax. I think a separate thread is worthwhile cause I dont want to confuse the other considerations on that thread. If yall can educate me, then I hope to go back and apply that to the other thread.

I think I understand enough about the basics of what it is. I just want yall to explain what I need to know in order to make an informed decision on which scope to buy.
>Question #1...Ive always used a 2.5-8 scope out to 250+ and havent had any trouble hitting what I want. Was I just lucky parallax didnt bother me???
- No, parallax error at 8x and below is minimal
>Question #2...Is there a certain magnification where parallax isnt much of a factor? 8x, 10x, 12x, 14x???
- IMHO, by the time you get to 12x, it becomes slightly real. By 15x a bit more. At 20x and any sort of distance (300+ yards, if you're not adjusted properly and off-center on the scope, the error is extremely real)
>Question #3...Is there a certain shooting distance where parallax isnt much of a factor? 250 yds? 300 yds? 350 yds???
- Hunting-level accuracy, I'd say 300 is minimum it would be very relevant unless you're horribly off-center
>Question #4.. Are there scopes available WITHOUT any adjustments for AO or parallax that are better than others at eliminating parallax???
- No, it's physically impossible for a scope without adjustment to be inherently better at eliminating parallax error than a scope with adjustment that's adjusted properly.
>Question #5...If I plan to never make physical scope adjustments for parallax would there be any downside to getting a scope that did have the ability to adjust? Im of the mindset that "less can be more" (KISS) so dont get something you dont use. More to confuse or break.
- No, there's nothing wrong with having an adjustable scope and leaving knob alone

Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: 603Country] #8653704 08/01/22 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
And factor in that sometimes a fellow only has seconds to make the shot. No time for a RF or dialing. I have been in that situation many times, but mostly in hunting on narrow pipelines in heavily wooded areas. Here in wide open Texas a fellow may have more time.

Probably the biggest deer I ever shot was in my view for maybe 4 seconds. I looked left and there he was, almost across the road. I raised the rifle, put the crosshairs on his chest and fired. Caught him in the heart. 268 yards, ranged later. I had let one get away in a situation like that the previous season, when I spent too long thinking and fiddling with the binoculars.

^^603 comments above I have said similarly several times throughout my various threads about building this rifle.
Its probably the #1 takeaway from anything I can say about how I hunt and how that effects my equipment decisions.
Sometimes in a Trophy hunting situation things happen quick and thinking is blurred and absolutely do not want to add ANY more time or thinking to that scenario.
NO SLOW DOWN, NO THINKING.

Fireman said "spend enough time behind a mil reticle....". I dont even know what a mil reticle is and have spent zero time behind one. I agree if and when I do that then you are probably correct. 2023 that may happen. Maybe.

Patriot07, one of a few that have answered my 5 questions. I appreciate it. Most of your answers confirm my thoughts.

Any of the comments about sighting in a little high at 100 and then what happens after that is about MPBR and its the one thing that I feel will be impossible for me to be swayed off of. Thanks to jgraider, 603 and others for backing me on that.

Last edited by freerange; 08/01/22 02:39 PM.

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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653760 08/01/22 04:23 PM
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Every scope made can be used by pointing and shooting.

Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653810 08/01/22 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Fireman said "spend enough time behind a mil reticle....". I dont even know what a mil reticle is and have spent zero time behind one. I agree if and when I do that then you are probably correct. 2023 that may happen. Maybe.


Black is your basic Mil reticle. Hashes are .5, dots are 1.0

Green would be your holds for 7mm-08 with 150's, 6.5 Creedmoor with 140's and many other combinations.


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It can be like pulling teeth to get some seasoned hunters to instead of holding high on the animal, to change and hold vitals on a certain spot on the reticle. Your reticle is your ruler, use it. This is making elevation holds, no turret dialing.

200 .4
300 .9
400 1.7
500 2.6

Change bullets, cartridges, velocity, BC and the numbers change. I have personally used Mil scopes from .22 lr out to 300 yards up to .300 Norma Mag out to 2180 yards, and a long list of cartridges in between.

I'm not trying to sell you on it, you just said "I don't even know what a Mil reticle is". So here you go.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653852 08/01/22 06:21 PM
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Yes, we’ve had this discussion many times. As my wife would say, “the thing is” that inside 300 or 350, I just don’t need precision. Long range shooters do, but I’m not one of those. I will admit that here in Texas I generally have time to fiddle with stuff before I shoot. But, back where I grew up, hunting was a bit different, with heavy woods and narrow shooting lanes, and 3 or 4 seconds was often all the time you had on a 300 yard shot. There just isn’t time to do much thinking. It was much more efficient to do it my way, if you want to eat, that is.

But here in Texas, where folks hunt over feeders, time isn’t much of a problem. It seems more like ‘shooting’ than ‘hunting’. You pick the deer you want to shoot, range it, fiddle with the turret, and put the bullet within 1/4” of where you wanted it. Much much different than what I grew up doing. A lot of deer hunting here isn’t really what I’d call hunting. That said, I too sit in my heated blind during the season, drink my coffee, look around with the binocs, and wait for the feeder to pay off. And I pick the doe I want for the freezer. That’s a lot different than my hunting before ATVs and rangefinders. I’d walk a 1000 yards in deep gumbo mud, climb a tree, shiver till a deer showed up, if it did, shoot said deer and drag it 1000 yards back to the truck, wrestle it into the truck, and take it home to skin it.

More and more lately I read about people that want to shoot deer at 500 yards or further. Expensive rangefinders and more expensive FFP scopes and the latest in sniper grade rifles. There’s something wrong with that, in my view. I don’t think that’s hunting. It’s just target practice. But yes, turreted scopes are required for that.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: 603Country] #8653855 08/01/22 06:25 PM
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Have you ever hunted west of I-35?

Whole different ballgame than heavy woods. Mule deer, pronghorn, Aoudad, and Elk a guy had better have the ability to shoot some distance if needed. Whole lot of guys have come to my range for the day, right before a hunt with Muley Mike. He tells them the same things, be able to shoot some distance, because it is likely to happen. Just can't close in less than 300 yards, often.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653868 08/01/22 06:33 PM
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MOA to .mil is a very easy adjustment. The biggest issue is having first focal plane vs second focal plane scopes and knowing that means woth one you need to be a max magnification to use the reticle hold overs propertly. FFP scopes allow use of reticle hold overs at any mag, where SFP scopes require max mag to he accurate.

Other than that, it is simply learning a new dope for your gun, it isnt hard, it is just something new.

Of course a lot more nuance involved than that, but that is the same as saying parallax knob is a focus knob…it is and it isnt, but for all intents and purposes, it is.

Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653875 08/01/22 06:39 PM
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I hunted for some years in South Texas and had a few leases west of I35, so I know what open spaces look like. I have a personal limit of about 350 or maybe 400 yards for deer. Past that I won’t shoot.

A lot of people will say that a good hunter will get closer before shooting, or not shoot. For a number of years I drove guys around in jeeps to get them close to deer. It wasn’t hunting, in my opinion, but it was good for business.

One thing for sure though, is that you need the right equipment to hunt in the fashion that you choose. But if someone tells me that they shot a deer/elk at 600 yards, it won’t impress me with their hunting skills. I will actually think less of them.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: 603Country] #8653887 08/01/22 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
One thing for sure though, is that you need the right equipment to hunt in the fashion that you choose. But if someone tells me that they shot a deer/elk at 600 yards, it won’t impress me with their hunting skills. I will actually think less of them.

I'm not a hunter, so I don't know the answer to this. But is it possible a bow hunter would look at someone shooting at 200-300 yards and say the same thing?

The more you expand your skills and equipment to give yourself the best chance to end the hunt with a successful and ethical kill, the more respect I have for you. I don't base my respect on how much people artificially limit themselves in the name of what they subjectively do or don't deem hunting.

Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: patriot07] #8653888 08/01/22 06:55 PM
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Shooting a deer at long distance, to me, isn’t hunting. But, hunting means different things to different people.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: patriot07] #8653891 08/01/22 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by 603Country
One thing for sure though, is that you need the right equipment to hunt in the fashion that you choose. But if someone tells me that they shot a deer/elk at 600 yards, it won’t impress me with their hunting skills. I will actually think less of them.

I'm not a hunter, so I don't know the answer to this. But is it possible a bow hunter would look at someone shooting at 200-300 yards and say the same thing?

The more you expand your skills and equipment to give yourself the best chance to end the hunt with a successful and ethical kill, the more respect I have for you. I don't base my respect on how much people artificially limit themselves in the name of what they subjectively do or don't deem hunting.

I’m traveling and don’t want to debate this anyway, but I have to say Patriot articulated his opinion very well. Impressed!


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: 603Country] #8653928 08/01/22 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
One thing for sure though, is that you need the right equipment to hunt in the fashion that you choose. But if someone tells me that they shot a deer/elk at 600 yards, it won’t impress me with their hunting skills. I will actually think less of them.


Terrell County, between Ft. Stockton and Sanderson. Canyon running north-south, we were on the west side of it. Two cow elk on the east side of it. Only way to close on them would have been to rappel into the canyon, then climb up the other side. But we saw a way to them farther south of us if we put them down. Bill called out 465 yards to me. I hit her in lungs. Second cow had ran about 50 yards ,then stopped. Bill called out 510 yards to me. I hit her right under the chin since she was facing me. He whole body was covered by a cedar.

Pronghorn, just west of Marfa, nothing between us and the bucks but 3" tall grass and prickly pear. Mine was 689 yards, Bill's was 521 yards.

Not trying to impress anyone, and do not want the shots to be that far. But we were prepared if it happened, and freezers got filled.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8653942 08/01/22 07:51 PM
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I'm sure some will immediately take this as argumentative, but it's not meant that way at all. Just a realistic point of view is where I'm coming from. I'm all for modern technology, perfecting your skills, trying new equipment, etc. It's a lot of fun and quite the learning experience. I love the mil/mil setup and have loads of fun with it. That being said, This is my 51'st hunting season coming up, and 90% of it has been in Texas West of I35. I've hunted all over the Trans Pecos region....from Valentine, to Van Horn, to Marfa, out to the Marathon/Sanderson area. Th number of times I've been pressed to shoot over 400 yards is miniscule. This includes deer, antelope, aoudad (culled over 100 of the vermin). I also have considerable experience over lots of NM, West Texas, and up through the TX and OK Panhandle. Same story with shot distances. Maybe it's my hunting style, as I like to get closer rather than farther.

Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: 603Country] #8653947 08/01/22 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
I hunted for some years in South Texas and had a few leases west of I35, so I know what open spaces look like. I have a personal limit of about 350 or maybe 400 yards for deer. Past that I won’t shoot.

A lot of people will say that a good hunter will get closer before shooting, or not shoot. For a number of years I drove guys around in jeeps to get them close to deer. It wasn’t hunting, in my opinion, but it was good for business.

One thing for sure though, is that you need the right equipment to hunt in the fashion that you choose. But if someone tells me that they shot a deer/elk at 600 yards, it won’t impress me with their hunting skills. I will actually think less of them.

I think a good hunter knows his equipment and how to use it, and shoots within his/her limits. I want to kill great deer, and if that happens to be 600 yards I want to be able to take that shot, ethically.


An unethical shot is one you take, that you know you shouldn't.
Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: Jgraider] #8654422 08/02/22 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jgraider
I'm sure some will immediately take this as argumentative, but it's not meant that way at all. Just a realistic point of view is where I'm coming from. I'm all for modern technology, perfecting your skills, trying new equipment, etc. It's a lot of fun and quite the learning experience. I love the mil/mil setup and have loads of fun with it. That being said, This is my 51'st hunting season coming up, and 90% of it has been in Texas West of I35. I've hunted all over the Trans Pecos region....from Valentine, to Van Horn, to Marfa, out to the Marathon/Sanderson area. Th number of times I've been pressed to shoot over 400 yards is miniscule. This includes deer, antelope, aoudad (culled over 100 of the vermin). I also have considerable experience over lots of NM, West Texas, and up through the TX and OK Panhandle. Same story with shot distances. Maybe it's my hunting style, as I like to get closer rather than farther.



Oftentimes people take long shots because they don’t try to get closer.

I’ve killed 3 mule deer, spotted from roughly 900 yards to over a mile away. I shot one at 185 yards, one at 145 and one around 225. All on foot.

Pronghorn shot at 84 yards (with a bow) 90% of the pronghorn I saw I could have killed with an open sighted .22mag.

Aoudad are a bit tougher And can require reaching out a bit further but I’ve never had to shoot one over 400 and the last one my wife shot we spotted 1/2 mile away and she shot it at 50 yards after an exciting stalk.

Some instances will call for a longer shot but In many cases people trying longer shots make no attempt to get closer.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: patriot07] #8654433 08/02/22 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by patriot07
Originally Posted by 603Country
One thing for sure though, is that you need the right equipment to hunt in the fashion that you choose. But if someone tells me that they shot a deer/elk at 600 yards, it won’t impress me with their hunting skills. I will actually think less of them.

I'm not a hunter, so I don't know the answer to this. But is it possible a bow hunter would look at someone shooting at 200-300 yards and say the same thing?


I always get a giggle when someone claims one method “ isn’t really hunting “ when they are using a centerfire rifle with a scope.

Modern rifles take your effective range to 0-300 yards for the average hunter.

Compound bow, I can shoot from 0-100 yards but for whitetail I’ll say I’m comfortable shooting them from 0-30, maybe 40 yards. Elk I would shoot probably to 80, same with Mule Deer

Now my recurve, I’m under 20 yards, 12-15 yards preferably. A deer at 30 might as well be at 300.

Hunters are quick to be judgmental and justify what they do as acceptable but are quick to vilify someone else who is doing it different.


I don’t look down on hunters who choose to take extreme range shots with a rifle. There is skill and a lot of know how involved in making a long shot. I will stand by my statement in the above post that many times animals taken at long distance could also have been taken at a much shorter distance if one tried to get closer.

I don’t choose to hunt that way as I want to mitigate risk so I choose to get closer or not shoot, but if a person wants and is capable of taking an animal at 500,600,700 yards more power to them. I can tell you that they are not trying those shots without practicing.



Meanwhile, I’m happy chasing them around the woods with a stick and string like a real hunter….. bolt


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8654459 08/02/22 01:04 PM
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This thread may of run its course from my(OP) point of view, unless anyone has anything to offer on effects of parallax at ranges out to 300/400 or magnification of 10x to 15x?
I’ve probably learned enough to narrow down scope choice but I don’t want to hinder teaching and learning on the parallax topic, so carry on.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8654487 08/02/22 01:30 PM
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Yesterday afternoon I experimented for you. Night Force at 10X focused at 100 yards. Then looked at 400 yards. Not terrible, but it needed the focus adjusted. At 15X it definitely needed the focus adjusted.

So many people talk a whole lot about glass clarity being so important, and if you are going to get over 10X having the ability to adjust focus is a tool that let's you retain your glass clarity.


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Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: J.G.] #8654820 08/02/22 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by J.G.
Yesterday afternoon I experimented for you. Night Force at 10X focused at 100 yards. Then looked at 400 yards. Not terrible, but it needed the focus adjusted. At 15X it definitely needed the focus adjusted.

So many people talk a whole lot about glass clarity being so important, and if you are going to get over 10X having the ability to adjust focus is a tool that let's you retain your glass clarity.

I appreciate you doing that test for me. I’m still fuzzy on the focus/parallax stuff but I think I got enough for now.


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8655285 08/03/22 10:01 AM
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Been following this discussion, JG did a great job with me also. After studying his notes, the "glass class" is much better understood on my part. Thanks JG.

Re: Parallax...Scope buying decision [Re: freerange] #8671574 08/23/22 02:31 AM
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agree!

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