I started to title this "The Mythical 3 shot group".
I purposely put this in this section to emphasize I want to look at this from a deer hunters perspective. I value/want the target shooters opinions but I hope they can temper them towards a deer hunting scenario.
Im starting to look for greater accuracy out of my hunting rifle and Im wanting help to get there. Im not really wanting to look at the mechanics of the equipment at this time. Other threads and other people will help me with that. Instead, I want some insight on testing first shot cold bore accuracy and sighting in/practicing with that in mind.
It seems everyone talks about group size in relation to firing 3 or more shots in quick succession. Remember guys, forget about competition shooting for this discussion. ALL I care about is the FIRST shot at a big mature Trophy deer. Im not a great shot but I take a lot of precautions to help me be accurate so I almost never need a follow up shot. If I do, then I dont think the second shot will be from a hot barrel and if more than 2 are needed then he will be running and jumping through the brush and an inch(or more) shift in POI wont matter.

Assume inside 300 yards and no turrets. Also assume that a barrel will heat up after a few shots and it could alter the POI. My plan has always been to use a system close to Maximum Point Blank Range(MPBR). A fast and flat shooting setup will help extend that range. Ill sight in so the highest above line of sight is about 2" and a lot of deer rifles will keep all shots out to 250 or so in the vitals. To stretch out the distance a little more, I just know the ballistics and hold over center of vitals as far as I feel comfortable with my and my equipments abilitly to hold a group in vitals.
Follow so far?

Im spelling out how I do this but I really am ASKING YALLS ADVICE on if Im correct or how should I tweak.
>My first question is there any reason in the world I shouldnt be testing my equipments accuracy by insuring I let the bore cool between shots. It seems most dont do this but maybe I dont need to care about "most".
>How long does it take between shots to let it cool? I know lots of variables on this.
>Anything wrong with using a fan or putting rifle in truck with AC on to cool down. Can it hurt to go back and forth from cold to hot. Ive done this the last couple days in 100+ heat. Other barrel cool down ideas?

First I want to shoot a WHOLE LOT to test out what "cold bore" group size my set up will consistently do.
Then I want to shoot a WHOLE LOT to get zero where I want.
Then I want to shoot a WHOLE LOT to confirm where I hit at different distances.
Then I want to shoot a WHOLE LOT to practice in field situations.
My thorough test results will allow me to know how far out my equipment and myself can ethically shoot to kill. To do ALL THIS shooting from a "cold bore" is VERY TIME CONSUMING. Im trying to figure out if there is something Im missing in my approach.
I know Im wordy, but if you stayed with me, I would like your feedback. Thanks.

Ok we need some information.

What gun manufacturers you shooting? Remington, Savage, Winchester, etc?
What caliber you shooting?
Factory or hand loads?
What bullet weight?
Do you know muzzle volicty?
What scope is on top of gun?
When was the last time gun was cleaned?
Are you shooting off a bench or what?

You say cold bore, a cold bore shot is just that, the first shot from a cold bore. Every other shot that day won't be cold bore. To cool a barrel I leave the bolt open and stand gun up vertical so hot air can escape. Wait 10 minutes for next shot. But on 100 degree days it won't cool much. Sight your gun in for a 200 yard zero than shoot targets at your max range (300-350 yds) to see where it impacts. Knowing this you'll be good to go in all your hunting ranges.
Do a cold bore test for 3-4 days in a row and You’ll have your cold bore answer.
Good luck.

angus, Im not really talking about a specific rifle setup. I have 3 Im basically dealing with. There is no problem or issue to address. Im really just wanting to know a "system" to use that should apply to ANY hunting rifle set up. I really just asked 3 questions(>'s) and then just any comments on how to speed up the process(assuming the process is legit.) Thanks
edit... Your comments about cooling the barrel is part of what im looking for and i appreciate it. Your comment about "every other shot that day will not be cold bore" is the type comment that confuses me. If i shoot in my rifle in Oct and its 40 degrees and I wait an hour(or 2 or 3 or 4) are you telling me that wont simulate a cold bore shot? At one point you said wait 10 minutes but then you imply wait 24 hours. Not being argumentative at all but this is the thought process that im trying to fine tune.

What Angus said, sorta'. I did similar with my Tikka Roughtek in 7mm Rem Mag. Shot it off and on all weekend.

I think your over thinking this one. If you have 3 rifles do your cold bore testing all at the same zero 100 yards, 200 yards, your choice and note your impact data.
Yes cold bore times will be different in 30-40 degrees than 100 degrees.

Good luck,

Take one target and always shoot the first shot of the day at that target. That will give you a "cold bore" group that you can zero for accordingly. If it is not the same as your group when you are shooting afterwards, you will just have to note that.

A couple answers:

Yes, all your shots should be cold bore, judge and zero your load by that.

Cooling the barrel: There are fan based units you can find online that blow down the barrel. It also doesn’t hurt
if you want to put a cool, damp rag on the barrel to speed things up. No, shooting/cooling/shooting/cooling will
not harm the barrel, the only damage you can do is by way overheating it.

MPBR: A 200 yard ‘average’ load will be 2 to 3” low at 250. If you don’t have one already, get a ballistics app for your phone.
Lots of good ones online and very inexpensive.

"How long to cool down?" As you said, it depends. I think a cold barrel is one whose temperature is the same as the air around it. You shouldn't feel any difference between it and anything around it. Then, of course a cold barrel at 30 degrees isn't the same as at 100 degrees. Theoretically, you should do your cold-barrel testing at the same temperature you will be hunting. Is there a significant difference? I don't know. Is worth all the ammo you're going to burn up trying to reach your goal?

I like this answer.

Good info guys.
>onlysmith, "shooting off and on all weekend" isnt nearly enough time for this. I need to shoot a lot and I only want to shoot when its a cold bore.

>angus, I over think almost everything. I think this one requires a lot of thinking and details. Target shooters are fanatical on accuracy. Its not needed for deer at 100 yards with a great rest but what if you push your limits on longer range and are shooting from sitting with shooting sticks. That tight group at 100 starts to open up a whole lot and i just want the accuracy and knowledge to push the range as far as I can with confidence. It will take detail.

>safari, good comment on the one target for first shot. I dont exactly do that but I keep detail notes in an attempt to get to the same end.

>p102, your comments on cooling the barrel is one of the things Im looking for. Thanks. I didnt think going from cold AC to 100 degree would "hurt" the equipment but I wondered if it would alter the point of impact. Theres a big difference in an unshot barrel sitting in 100 degrees and one coming out of AC. After only 5 minutes in the truck AC blowing right on it, its very cold to the touch.

>papa, I guess every rifle is different but Ive always thought that a barrel after just one shot thats slightly warm will probably not change POI. No its not "cold" bore but nothing is cold at 100 and one of the things Im trying to get at is just how much heat can make a difference. Maybe every rifle is different and thats why I plan to do a lot of shooting and waiting and shooting and waiting. I agree on shooting at temp expected to hunt(as is practical.) I plan to do that as well. With this first rifle its fairly new to any detail accuracy shooting so Im mostly trying to establish my system and get it close. My every day go to rifle I will wait for cooler weather to fine tune. And yes, its worth the cost of ammo to reach my goal(maybe not everyone, but this is me.)

IMO……inside of 300yds in a “Hunting situation” none of this discussion has enough significant relevance to make any difference. A 1 moa rifle at 100yds, whether it’s cold bore (1st shot) or your 3rd/5th shot, will all impact the vital zone inside of 300 yds on a deer sized animal. Is that ideal…..sounds like you are wanting better more reliable results. I don’t blame you, we all should. But inside of this distance, I think the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. Once again, just my opinion. I know I wouldn’t be satisfied with my own answer but it’s pretty close to being accurate if not entirely. And if you have a rifle that is a 2 moa performer at 100yds, well, you got a problem.

I guess the best question to ask is, just how far apart is your cold bore shot and your subsequent 3-5 shot group? If within 1 moa at 100 I feel the above is accurate and further chasing isn’t necessary. If it’s beyond that, then yes you indeed have same questions to be answered and data to gather.

Yes. Bang, flop, dead.

Pretty accurate IMO. I have an ultra light 28 Nosler. First two touch, third if not cold are walking away . Thin barrel heats up quick and take a while to cool

Severe Temp drop effect accuracy but I think it’s more power sensitivity then the rifle IMO,

ringworm, very good comments. I think you are my kind of guy. BUT.....
First, Ill address your last thought. I dont know what groups I shoot with 3-5 shots in succession cause I never test that. Ive always heard that almost always there will be a change on several quick shots and I only care about the first so I try to simulate that in all my shooting. Maybe I should test that cause it would save a lot of time and thats really my only goal with this thread.

Secondly, the more complex answer is to your first thoughts. You spelled it out great for MOST FOLKS. You also hit it correct when you said "you want better more reliable results". You used 1MOA and 300 yards and that is fair enough. You seem to agree with angus, "bang flop dead easy peasy good enough". For anyone that can shoot a deer with a 95%+ chance of a clean kill at 300 yards in a field shooting position and real life conditions, then I commend your ability and your equipments abillity. PERSONALLY, I am just not that good, so yes I need/want more work at getting there.
Lets get specific on your 1MOA/300 yard example. I shoot a 3006 and I slow shoot 5 shots for a group and it averages close to 1MOA. Often 3 shots(not in order) will touch and have a .75 5 shot group and other times 4 may be 1MOA and a 5th will be 1.25 or 1.5. I call it 1MOA but Im not confident of that when i pull the trigger on a huge buck. So, if Im confident of 1.5" at 100 then at 300 Im at close to 5"(is that correct?). THATS ALL OFF A BENCH. So lets sit down and shoot off shooting sticks and for ME, PERSONNALLY that group is going to be close to double that size. If you throw in the inevitable uncertain unhunting conditions of weather, wind, lighting, buck fever etc then the "close enough, easy peasy" is out the window. Yes, a lot of yall are better shots than me, but I know the average hunter out there is in a more similar boat to me.

So, lets ASSUME that yall CAN sit down with sticks in a hunting scenario and lay round after round after round into the vitals at 300 yards. MY POINT is what about 350, or 400, or whatever. At some point EVERYONE has a range where they say NO, THATS TOO FAR. If you want to extend the max range you feel comfortable with then I suggest you go through a process as Ive outlined.
For me I get real iffy at 250+ and draw the line at close to 300, so I want more ability and confidence. For someone else it may be 300+ iffy and 350 say no, too far. Whatever a persons limits are, I think they can be pushed(if desired) by going through a thorough cold bore grouping, zero, trajectory knowledge and practice.
All that addresses the WHY of what Im doing. My intention with the thread was to address the WHAT not the why. Didnt mind addressing the "why", especially if it helps solve my "what". Remember, my main question was to figure out how to do all this shooting without taking forever to let a barrel cool.
Thanks guys, hope you are staying with me.

As Safarigene mentioned….. use one target for cold bore shots only. Then a different target for shots 2-3. This will require multiple days to accomplish unless you buy/build a barrel cooling setup.

“Cold bore” to me is ambient temp. Only your first shot will mirror that without additional cooling assistance for subsequent shots. Once again…. Inside of 300yds, wind, temp elevation, barometric pressure blah blah blah…….little to no impact.

You simply need to see if and or what the difference is between shots 1,2 & 3. 3 days now, 3 days in Oct, 3 days in Jan. Should give you some descent data. Less than a box of ammo wasted. Time and miles to the range will be your biggest expense.

Glad you're putting in the time and effort to get your hunting rifles properly tuned and figuring out exactly how they shoot at various distances. If more hunters did this instead of going to the range the weekend before gun season and firing 3 shots at a paper plate and calling it good, we wouldn't have to hear as many stories about "the one that got away."

My best tip is to shoot enough so that you can start calling your shots as they happen. What I mean by that is you should know exactly where the crosshair was when the shot went off. For zero work at 100 yards I use a target with a half inch dot and I can tell you that the sights for any particular shot was dead center, right of center, left of center or whatever and that's where I expect my shot to land. I wish I could say that my sights were always dead center on discharge, but I'm well aware that I'm not immune to the dreaded "jiggle factor."

Start off with a good set of binos.

thats pretty funny

Hey free -- I've taken a number of long range courses and do not own a precision rifle. My distance practice is purely focused around bettering my hunting skills like you're thinking here. I agree with most of the comments around keep one target and especially around cold bore shots closer to season to mimmic the environmental conditions you'll actually be hunting in. A cold barrel is going to be different when it's 40 degrees in the morning. I usually let things cool for 15 minutes. However, I'm also sensing that "cold bore" is also a reference to your first shot of the day, or your first shot when it counts.

In addition to cold bore shots at your preferred zero, I also suggest you consider cold bore shots at the 250, 300, 350, 400 ranges you mentioned. Often times when we show up at the range we go straight to check our zero with 3 shots. Do you ever go straight to your intended target distance, (provided it's safe to miss obviously)? That's going to tell you more about a real world scenario likely than just always shooting at your zero.

Chances are, like a couple folks have mentioned, your equipment isn't going to fail you once you're zeroed it (barring any barrel fouling of course), given the way rifles are built these days.

Added food for thought beyond the cold bore zero--I always prescribe to the mantra, "it's the indian not the arrow". From my experience, it's more the shooter that's going to determine how accurate you are on your first shot at your mature buck. Now I know you've got enough experience under belt, so I'm assuming you can manage buck fever better than most.

The biggest consideration I can add here is to consider how your body is positioned to accept the recoil. Every shot you take, regardless of cold or hot barrel, the accuracy at longer range is going to be impacted by how your body manages the recoil. That body position is also usually way different when you're in a blind or on sticks standing in a field and not on a shooting bench. I'd encourage you to be thinking more about taking your first practice shots in the exact same body posture you'll be in when that deer steps out. That'll likely help you feel comfortable at further distances as well. Hope there's at least one thing here that's fruitful food for thought!

Lots of complicated suggestions here. Just shoot a lot till you know what you can do. Once I have a reload I trust, I’ll do the cold bore shot for 3 days or more. Once you have an accurate rifle and some confidence that you can make reasonable shots (300+ yards), you are good to go. Just never go hunting with a rifle you aren’t confident in and don’t know the drops. For a 270 for instance, sighted in at 200, your drop at 300 is 7”. And that’s pretty consistent with any caliber with a 3000 fps MV. You don’t need FFP and big fancy turrets. Consult a ballistics app to see what your drops are if your MV is 2800 or 2600. You can spend all the money you want, but if you aren’t in tune with what your rifle can do, you are lost.

If, however someone wants to do the 600 yard shot on a deer, which I surely do not recommend, more money and shooting needs to happen.

For me, I’m good to 300 yards. Out past that I need to pay more attention or not take the shot. Probably the latter…

Hud, Im working on that one.

Lots of good stuff guys, and too many to address each one. Besides, ive had a long day.
I do want to revisit just one topic and that is putting the rifle in the truck to let the AC cool it down. I read elsewhere that this would work but I tried it and Im not so sure. It seems my groups got worse. Certainly could of been the Indian and not the Arrow but everything seems fine but it just didnt shoot good.
I pointed the barrel right at the vent and it would get really cold to the touch and then back out into the heat to shoot. Any way that could cause worse accuracy than better? Any way that moisture in that cold AC air could cause an issue to effect accuracy? I just dont like anything thats not somewhat "natural" so Im leaning towards just taking a lot of time between shots.

And that was my point in my earlier post about learning to call your shots. If you KNOW you were on the bull when the round went off but the impact was somewhere else, then you know to look at your equipment. And it's not as difficult as it sounds, just takes a lot of practice. You can watch someone shooting from a bench and if they hold their form through the shot and don't blink, much less flinch, when the round goes off, you can bet your last dollar they're shooting a good group without even looking at the target.

Get a snap cap for your rifle. The old feel test is good enough for what you are doing. Feel when the barrel is room temp rather than timing anything. While you are waiting for it to cool put the snap cap in. Lay in on your target at the distance you are shooting and break the trigger. Keep the crosshairs steady. They should not bounce when the trigger breaks and should remain centered up after the shot. A lot can be accomplished on the operator side of the equation while you let your rifle cool.

I pointed the barrel right at the vent and it would get really cold to the touch and then back out into the heat to shoot. Any way that could cause worse accuracy than better? Any way that moisture in that cold AC air could cause an issue to effect accuracy? I just dont like anything thats not somewhat "natural" so Im leaning towards just taking a lot of time between shots.

Humidity in the barrel? Think about glasses fogging up going from airconditioned to outside on a hot day.

Lots of good advice on this thread. When I was hunting out West where shots could be long and on places here that they could also be long I practiced a lot from field positions and established how far I was comfortable taking a shot from various positions. IMO it does help and give confidence.

The dryfire as suggested by Smokey does help and can show you a lot about your form and stability from different positions and repeatability from those positions.

I have a simple check for taking the shot on game or not. If say we are talking 300 yards a true MOA rifle is capable of 3 inch groups at that distance. If you are wobbling around but staying within the vitals with the crosshairs within an area that would not let the bullet from the rifle be out of the target area for a clean responsible kill you have a good shooting situation, if not it is not time to take the shot.

Like has been said here and other places many times there is a shooting system, rifle/ammo/shooter often we (the shooter) are the weakest link in the system.

When I was shooting numerous rifles I would take at least 4 to the range and shoot another while one cooled off including a 22 for fun and practice. For cold bore testing each rifle would have its own playing card in the bag for the first shot of the day over multiple trips you establish that rifles cold bore potential and have it sighted in so that shot always would be on target.

I would also take my most accurate rifle to the range to access my abilities that day, knowing I am the weakest link. If I could not shoot under half MOA from the bench with it that was not a day to expect my best shooting.