I think you can like and purchase an EV without buying into any hype - simply because it's a vehicle you like - isn't that America? Shouldn't everyone be able to purchase what they want? I drove a Tesla Model 3 Performance and it was awesome! We got on the highway and the owner told me to punch it and I mean that thing jumped and my stomach surged like I have never before experienced in a vehicle. Plus all the other features were very cool. While the look of the Model 3 is not really my taste, I would definitely consider it for the wife. We are on the wait list for the Cybertruck, but that would be her car as well. I'll be sticking to a gas truck until they make an EV that will tow a boat 500-600 miles before needing the 45-minute to an hour charge.

I am definitely against them being forced on anyone.

I'm hearing many stories about the crappy build quality in electric cars...

Then why are they lasting 10+ years with very little maintenance? There are 10% of the moving parts on an EV to that of an ICE. Tesla sends software updates every week directly to their vehicles. Some of them are just play while some of them do things like improving battery performance.

Check out these software updates, like "dog mode": https://cleantechnica.com/2019/05/28/17-fun-useful-tesla-features-added-via-software-updates/

Moving parts: https://www.nrdc.org/experts/madhur...la,combustion%20engine%20(ICE)%20vehicle

I suppose it boils down to who do you believe.

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134740_evs-least-reliable-vehicle-type-problem-areas

I saw a congressman talking on the TV yesterday to Buttigieg about the grid and EVs.

He said each EV dependent family uses the same amount of electricity as 25 refrigerators to charge their EVs. He said each EV family uses the same amount of electricity to charge as 4 AC units.

This may have been multiplied by 2, speaking of two cars per family and not one car per family, either way, even if the number is actually 2 AC units per car and 12.5 fridges, that is a serious tax on the electric grid. Of course Buttigieg said we aren't there yet, and significant infrastructure changes need to happen to the grid to make that possible....

So even the politicians spewing the spin know this is not a possible fix unless we basically re-do the electric grid and onboard new power plants.

FIFY based on the F150 lightning data. I expect little more from the cyber truck when actually used under load

Neighbor has Porsche version, It’s stupid fast but not for me. I have to roll out to get out

I'm not trying to convince anyone to buy an EV. Yes, I like the technology, but there is so much misinformation posted about them and so many people with an axe to grind. My mother-in-law (a staunch Fox News watching Republican) has a Tesla Model 3. She primarily charges it at home and has seen very little difference in her electric bill. She probably doesn't drive over 30-40 miles a day and she keeps it plugged in most of the time. Tesla recommends an 80 something percent charge unless you are going to be driving a long distance. The Tesla will stop charging when it reaches the recommended level for normal driving, so it's not sitting there plugged in and drawing juice all the time.

Here's a Google return on the question.

How much electricity does it take to charge an electric car at home?
If electricity costs ¢10.7 per kWh and the vehicle consumes 27 kWh to travel 100 miles, the cost per mile is about $0.03. If electricity costs ¢10.7 per kilowatt-hour, charging an EV with a 200-mile range (assuming a fully depleted 54 kWh battery) will cost about $6 to reach a full charge.

$6 is based on reaching a full charge. Normally her car is only being charged to 80% or so and she rarely depletes a charge. I would say she charges 15-25% of the 80% charge 3-4 times a week. I have no idea what the exact numbers are, but I would say it adds something like $20-$40 a month to her electric bill. It may be less than that. Next time I talk to her I'll ask.

so why did gas prices go up ?

It isn't the cost, it is what the mass introduction of them would do to the current grid on the daily. It isn't sustainable.

Average AC unit is about 3Kw/hr. A tesla 3 has between a 50kwH and 82Kwh battery. So lets do some math. Yes this won't apply all the time, but assuming the worst case scenario where someone depletes their battery every day and the AC is running all day long half the year.

AC use is 13,000 Kw of energy used
Car use is 30,000 Kw of energy used (82) or 18,250 Kw (50) and that is assuming a pure charge and no bleed or inefficiency in the charge process.

Now we know that no one runs that much AC, it is never always on and even in the summer months it will not run for most of the night, and spring/fall it might be on less than half the time during the hot hours only. So the AC unit is really worst case like Sahara hot desert

The car thing is much more variable. Lots of folks drive over 100 miles a day, and the battery is depleted with all the other devices used in the car (AC, Radio, GPS, on board computer, etc) and the heat of summer zaps batteries badly, so we know the charge will vary quite about based on usage, but if everyone had one, that would add a huge toll to the electric grid which right now would cripple the system.

This thread isn't about taking away anyone's choices. it is about being real with information. There is a lot of misinformation out there, but there is also some good information out there. It is up to each of us to use that informaiton as we see fit. As you said, this is the US. We have the choice.


Edit: Also, I would bet your wifes numbers are a little off. You are suggesting she is either a hermit and goes no where all week, or you are vastly underestimating how much she drives places. Either way, you are suggesting she drives anywhere from 45-100% of a 200 mile range---thats 90-200 miles a week. I live 5 miles from my office and can barely sustain that kind of travel in a week. In the 7 months I have had my new car, I have driven on average 150 miles a week and that is with taking several weeks of time off and several extended 5 day weekends from work. Your estimates are certainly possible for someone with no kids, no school, little shopping etc. But for a family primary vehicle, there is no way that little is driven. Small town USA can play a factor here too. Lots of factors. Not calling you a liar by any means, just wondering if the data is actual vs a rough guesstimate.

Saw some new EV cars and trucks in a parking lot the other night and they looked good as I drove by....trucks looked like Toyota bodies, had a little lift and winches on the front and all wheel drive. Sticker was $30,000 on the standard battery model and $37,000 on the long range model BUT I researched a bit and the range is only 60 and 150 miles! with a 7.5 HOUR CHARGE TIME! and NOT STREET LEGAL!
They are being marketed as "Neighborhood Electric Vehicles" They are named KANDI

Looked them up, headquartered in Dallas. They say they want to become the premiere electric car sharing manufacturer. Does that mean they want to be like the electric scooters and electric bike things you just rent by the mile?

The truck does look an awful lot like a toyota. Probably same body with different guts. expensive ofr something that can not go on the roads, though do not know why they aren't road worthy, didn't find anything about that (the why) on the website

Here's the only EV I own.

Agreed, the grid is not ready for a mas influx of EVs, but if they weren't shutting down our coal plants before we had other viable solutions, we probably wouldn't be having grid problems. I think if a businessman, without politicians involved, were solving the grid problems across the US, it would be done.

Your last sentence for reals!!

Sorry, I mistook you saying your mother in law for your wife. My bad

And just think of the lower building costs for housing because you won't need a garage since you can't safely park one inside.

Y'all ever seen a lithium mine? What about the lithium fields down in South America?

All these eco terrorists are all about destroying the O&G industry, but yet they sure don't have any problems using old smackover stuff to extract bromine, lithium and other minerals.

figured you'd blame them

Colt.45, who else is to blame?

Price of gas when trump left was half what it is today. 2.40 vs 4.47 today.

decisions have effects. plenty of young voters learning that for the first time of their lives.

Don't you know, the big bad corporate elites, then they lower the price when they feel sorry for us only to make them rise again.

I am probably going to regret replying, but here goes. NG has nothing to with pump gas.

Speaking from experience as a self employed buisnessman. A buisness or corporation invest long term money into thier goods and services. They have an obligation to return a postive cash flow to themselves or thier investors.Just as a household, a buisness must have a budget with postive cash flow.

If they dont, they go bankrupt, and default on thier debts and all thier employees lose their jobs and health care , etc.


The current administration has publicly declared to war on O&G. Oil and gas prices, as any product is based on future replacement costs. If the supply is EXPECTED to be limited, the replacement cost will be expected to increase.
Today's sell prices will indicate expected replacement costs.

There is a market for EVs. But, I remember the 70s and 80s when my industry was adding central air conditioning to older homes and businesses in older neighborhoods. The struggle to find power for the upgrades were real.

My thought is, if the neighborhood or home is less than 20 or 25 years old, there will be no problems.

It’s pretty simple really. Look at who is pushing for green energy and see if you agree with them on any other political issue. The choice for me is clear. Golf carts are the only EV’s I’ll ever own.

In years past, when gas and diesel prices rose, refiners cranked out more product and more wells were developed. Today, with exploration being limited, there appears to be less ability to crank out more product. If that is the case, high prices are here to stay until saner people are elected to office.

But…if existing production can be increased, that’ll hold prices down for a time.

Back in the 70’s, when I was a young engineer, crude was, I think, about $6 a barrel. When the supply of $6 crude dried up, the news was wild with alarmist stories of how we were out of crude, and heaven help us. The sky is falling. Well, we really were out of $6 crude, but we had gazillions of barrels of $10 crude. And even more of $20 and $30 crude and on and on. Even without new production, maybe the industry can find more $100 crude. We’ll see.

I watched that too. Did you notice Mayor Pete admitted they haven't a clue what commercial trucks were going to need for support. A F150 Lighting pulling a 6000 pound trailer has a range of 100 miles. Which equals 1KW per mile. I can't imagine the battery pack or charging station to support 10 ton or 20 ton load. There is physical limit on the amount of power you can push though a conductor that will be flexable enough for a person to handle.

Heck, you will need an army to prevent the meth heads from stealing the connectors at every truck stop.