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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643436 07/18/22 03:23 PM
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Mandatory Alerrt training for LEO
Shields for all departments and for individual officers and schools
Individual officer hard plates

Re: Uvalde report [Re: Concho] #8643437 07/18/22 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Concho
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
My large department just barely got everything under control at the bad one I was at. This was a much smaller city and the number of different agencies seems like it would help, but it just adds confusion due to comms being different and everyone having their own policies. They would have had a much better chance of getting it right with just one adequately staffed agency being involved.


376 officers on the scene, 150 Border Patrol, 91 State Officers.....Apparently there was a swat commander (Lieutenant) inside the school.


Supposedly one of the first two in was the SWAT commander

Re: Uvalde report [Re: Brother in-law] #8643446 07/18/22 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Brother in-law
Originally Posted by Concho
Originally Posted by ntxtrapper
My large department just barely got everything under control at the bad one I was at. This was a much smaller city and the number of different agencies seems like it would help, but it just adds confusion due to comms being different and everyone having their own policies. They would have had a much better chance of getting it right with just one adequately staffed agency being involved.


376 officers on the scene, 150 Border Patrol, 91 State Officers.....Apparently there was a swat commander (Lieutenant) inside the school.


Supposedly one of the first two in was the SWAT commander


This is one of my questions I most want answered, if a swat commander was inside the scene, and he was one of the first inside, why did they switch from an active shooter situation to barricade situation? This doesn't have anything to do with lack of training, knowledge, protective shields, either someone told him to stand down, or this was worse than believed.....I heard the guy has resigned or lost his job, can anyone confirm that info?

Last edited by Concho; 07/18/22 03:39 PM.




Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643454 07/18/22 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Guys i didn’t post this to get into word fights or pissin matches. That is below us as a group, so lets leave that off the table and discuss what is important, how doe we take this and make things better for the future?

For starters...before any LEO involvement, let's make these schools like TSA check points. Access controlled check points. All other access points are treated like emergency exits only. Doors need audible devices that alert someone when opened. Jeez...the shooter just walked in like he owned the place. We protect our airports so why can't we protect our schools with similar protocol???


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Concho] #8643456 07/18/22 03:45 PM
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I heard the chief was on leave


Who was the guy on the video throwing up his hands trying to keep the guys back from going towards 111 and 112?

Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643489 07/18/22 04:14 PM
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I heard this morning that the Mayor of Uvalde has placed the Chief on administration leave at this time and that two officers have resigned. I did not hear what department or departments that the two officers were from.

I recently heard a interview with the male teacher who turned out to be a cousin of the police chief. In the interview I believe it said he was the only one that survived in his room that all 11 of his students were killed. He had questions as to why nothing was done to save his kids and the shooter dropped water and his phone on him to get him to move but since he didn’t he thought he was dead.

Re: Uvalde report [Re: The Dude Abides] #8643492 07/18/22 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by TXGUNNER308
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Guys i didn’t post this to get into word fights or pissin matches. That is below us as a group, so lets leave that off the table and discuss what is important, how doe we take this and make things better for the future?

For starters...before any LEO involvement, let's make these schools like TSA check points. Access controlled check points. All other access points are treated like emergency exits only. Doors need audible devices that alert someone when opened. Jeez...the shooter just walked in like he owned the place. We protect our airports so why can't we protect our schools with similar protocol???


I agree 100%, and that is why i mentioned the school aspect of this. We need hardened schools. Period. The ability for someone to walk into a school thru a backdoor and “take over the place” is just bad safety management by the school.

There are several aspects that need discussed:
1 school
2. Shooter
3 leo response
4 teacher response- this is partly in the school response but i think it deserves its own category

Among others i am sure others will think about

Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643496 07/18/22 04:19 PM
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Yeah, let’s make schools like prisons.

Re: Uvalde report [Re: Hudbone] #8643505 07/18/22 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Yeah, let’s make schools like prisons.



Way the schools are in my area. main double doored foyer entry points(meaning one door, foyer another locked door) . Cameras at every door. The none main doors are steel and alarmed with cameras also.

They arent playing. I’d pay more school taxes for more restrictive fencing around if I could


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Hudbone] #8643506 07/18/22 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Yeah, let’s make schools like prisons.



Even prisons have failures when security protocols are not followed or are disregarded.


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Hudbone] #8643571 07/18/22 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Yeah, let’s make schools like prisons.


I just built my last run of barb wire on a section of my perimeter, 1500'.

And it's to keep stray cattle out, not mine in, I don't have any. Same principle as fencing the schools off.

You should see a North Texas Boeing facility, with mostly servers. It would be very unhealthy to try and break in there. Every single school needs to be treated the same way.


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: pegasaurus] #8643590 07/18/22 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pegasaurus
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Yeah, let’s make schools like prisons.



Even prisons have failures when security protocols are not followed or are disregarded.

All the security measures are great if they're adhered to instead of let's say...propping open an entry door!


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643595 07/18/22 06:35 PM
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It can't be sugar coated, this was a massive failure of law enforcement on the scene. Officers who failed to prioritize the children's lives over their own safety stood by while children died. Was every officer on the scene guilty of cowardice? No, of course not. But there were enough cowards there to paralyze the response. I am not anti-law enforcement or a liberal, but this was egregious behavior that needs to be addressed so that, hopefully, it won't be repeated.

Quoted from the report: “They failed to prioritize saving the lives of innocent victims over their own safety,”

We can harden schools until they are prisons but in the absence of hard tough officers to protect the children, this sort of massacre can probably not be prevented.

Last edited by BigRon; 07/18/22 07:01 PM.

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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643605 07/18/22 06:47 PM
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As has been mentioned....I like the idea of using retired people as a security asset in the schools. I know there would be many hurdles to make it happen with liability, training etc...but I see it as dayum sure worth a serious look at the feasibility of it.
If people are serious about tackling the issue...it can be done

Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643610 07/18/22 06:54 PM
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Re: Uvalde report [Re: BigRon] #8643746 07/18/22 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BigRon
It can't be sugar coated, this was a massive failure of law enforcement on the scene. Officers who failed to prioritize the children's lives over their own safety stood by while children died. Was every officer on the scene guilty of cowardice? No, of course not. But there were enough cowards there to paralyze the response. I am not anti-law enforcement or a liberal, but this was egregious behavior that needs to be addressed so that, hopefully, it won't be repeated.

Quoted from the report: “They failed to prioritize saving the lives of innocent victims over their own safety,”

We can harden schools until they are prisons but in the absence of hard tough officers to protect the children, this sort of massacre can probably not be prevented.


There were egregious failures at the school level too. Not saying it would have stopped what was about to happen, but if the shooter had to go thru doors that are locked or shot thru windows, this would be very different.

Failures all around. Thats the point. There is no defining point of the finger, its like a fist full of failures. Sad deal.

As BOBO (in this thread) and others have said (previously) i am all for paying more to make sure schools are safer. Problem is NOT ONE of us believes any money we would pay would go toward safety. The schools themselves, more at the district level i am sure, have different priorities. We know the teachers union does not consider kids their charge, they consider teachers their charge and could not care less about the students. We know federal govt wont do anything since it isnt their job, and we know any federal money would be wasted on stuff not safety related.

There are a lot of cultures that need changed. Not even mentioning the way the marginalized kids are handled by society. The shooter was clearly a marginalized kid and all his warning signs were ignored.

Last edited by Texas buckeye; 07/18/22 11:03 PM.
Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643791 07/18/22 11:47 PM
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Re: Uvalde report [Re: rolyat.nosaj] #8643796 07/18/22 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rolyat.nosaj
Cowards



Good thing you were there to save the day......oh, wait......





Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643804 07/19/22 12:00 AM
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I would have won Super Bowl III if they had just put me in the game......wait, I was at home setting in my arm chair.....





Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643824 07/19/22 12:27 AM
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SMFH…


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643825 07/19/22 12:29 AM
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I believe he’d make excuses for a dirty cop also.


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Thundervee] #8643828 07/19/22 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Thundervee
I believe he’d make excuses for a dirty cop also.


He, who?





Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643832 07/19/22 12:43 AM
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It don’t matter Concho, I’m not gonna argue about any of this effed up situation. It’s a bad deal and looks as if the damage possibly could’ve been lightened to an extent. Sucks for all involved.


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Re: Uvalde report [Re: Thundervee] #8643834 07/19/22 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Thundervee
It don’t matter Concho, I’m not gonna argue about any of this effed up situation. It’s a bad deal and looks as if the damage possibly could’ve been lightened to an extent. Sucks for all involved.


I agree.





Re: Uvalde report [Re: Texas buckeye] #8643837 07/19/22 12:51 AM
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after watching the video over a few times. Does it seem like the shooter had stopped shooting by the time the popo got in the hallway??? He did shoot at the cop who couldn't seem to get his body armor secured and got hit in the head by something. Did a bullet graze him? Piece of glass?

Was it basically "over" by this time?


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