Most are good people, and I think most people equipped to deal with this situation, as in a legally armed citizen, would have done something about this if it were not cordoned off by law enforcement.

I also think most law enforcement available on the scene would have hit that classroom and taken him out before so much time had passed with good leadership.

Mission success depends on good leadership and good teamwork, certainly even the most basically trained police understand this much.

You can’t just blame everyone on the scene for what happened, you have to learn to trust your leadership and work as a team.

If the officers on the scene had all decided to disregard their police chief, and charge in willy nilly it could have been even more tragic.

It takes well trained and cohesive team to do stuff like that without someone to call the shots.

I retired from one of the largest agencies in Texas. No expense was spared with the most modern radio system. They routinely wouldn’t work in schools, hospitals and other large buildings. If we couldn’t get a signal we used phones. Sometimes those wouldn’t work either.

The one school district Chief of Police I know is from a much smaller town than Uvalde. He'd do through the wall with his head if though it would save a kid.

What trapper says is true. I retired from juvenile probation. Benn in lots of schools jails and detention centers. I understand outside agencies radios not working but your facility radios should. When we moved to a new detention center the radios would not work bought some repeaters and it was fixed. How can border patrol radios work in the school and the ISD radios not. Most ISD chiefs knew their school inside and out.

It is usually not the radios that are the issue in buildings like schools. This is why most larger cities are now requiring Emergency Radio Response Radio systems be installed which are basically booster systems within the schools. Buildings made of concrete & steel and especially those with metal roofs block 2-way radio signals and that is why these ERR systems are now having to be installed to meet codes in new buildings. I suspect this school was older and did not have such a system in it.

Structures can become a Faraday cage.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_cage

Some radios could work better depending on the frequency they operate.

This same principle is also how your microwave keeps electromagnetic waves from escaping.

Did they interview the first couple of cops that were standing outside the door to see why they didn't check to see if the door was locked? I'm not going to blame guy's 5-20 for not knowing the door was locked/unlocked.. Maybe they asked "is it locked" or maybe they didn't even think to ask that because there were 10 other people standing there. By the time they showed up, you aren't going to have 15 different people checking the door to see if it was locked. Especially when there is a guy on the other side of the door with a gun that could shoot you as you were jiggling the door handle to see if it was locked. To me, this seems like a horrifically tragic situation that is like what you see in an elevator lobby every day. 10 people standing around and no one has pushed the up button because they assumed the first 9 people before them pushed it already. Except in this case, there is no light to tell you the door is locked and the only way to find out is to go try it. Don't forget that there is a guy with a rifle on the other side just waiting to shoot you when you put your hand on the handle and try to see if it's locked. Having every single person that shows up check to see if a door is locked doesn't seem like proper protocol or tactics.

When we get a final report on what actually occurred at Uvalde. This changing narrative every couple of days makes me believe even the folks running the investigation really don't know, or the folks handing out information don't know. I'd like to know who was actually making the on-scene decisions, such as who stopped the one officer and removed him the scene if that story is true. There will be plenty of time to judge, condemn, hold accountable......I'd just like to make sure the correct folks are being held accountable. I truly believe the officers I have known and worked with over the years would have done everything possible to save the children at Uvalde. It seems to me that even the different law enforcement agencies involved at Uvalde are pointing fingers at each other. Like I said, I tried to stay out of this, I know what I would have done, Id like to know why that didn't happen at Uvalde. All I am doing is waiting for all the facts, what we know does not sound good, what we don't know might explain some of the decisions, good, bad, or whatever. I will try to make this my last comment on the situation since my opinion seems to offend some folks here on the forum. [/quote]



Appreciate the clarification. The news that came out this week was from security cameras inside the school obtained by the media and it was reported that officers were in the hallway with a ballistic shield and at least one rifle for an hour+. I imagine if that timeline is false, then DPS or someone part of the investigation would have disputed it immediately, but I haven’t seen anyone push back on the new information being reported.

There are plenty of facts.

All some of us have ever needed is the fact that a bunch of dead kids lay inside a room with armed men sworn to protect them waited outside. End of file.

So now you're the victim? Typical of you.

Your offense comes from crowing on and on, the highest poster on every thread about it. Name calling. Asking whom has risked their lives for others, what everyone else's experiences are, and on and on. And now you're the victim?

Two things against you, every day. You are not smart, and you are a narcissist.

How is your health, by the way? That "horse paste" as you called it, is looking pretty good by now, since you got free medical advice months ago telling your hard head it would be better than government shots. But you stood there and crowed the loudest and the most against it, many hours of every day.

Keep crowing, crow. Nothing but a nuisance.

And before you pull the card I know you are going to, I have many, many close friends in law enforcement. Most have over 20 years on the job. Most are active duty SWAT, and are or have been patrol. ALL of them say this whole deal was handled 100% wrong. ALL of them told me the last 24 years of training says you storm in, risk officers lives and put down the bad man with the gun to save kids lives.

The fact cops that typically hassle normal people did nothing for over an hour because they were stupid, scared, or involved? in the situation is the issue to me.

I can't claim to have been able to do the right thing because I'm an automotive technician with no sworn statement to prevent what those guys failed to prevent at their own hand.

Wow. That was swiftly and properly handled. Very well done.

I'm not the victim in any of this, never said I was, and have no idea what the hell you are talking about. You and your minions bring my name into any topic you wish to cause disruption on the forum and I really don't get why your BS is tolerated. I couldn't care less what you think about my opinions and really don't know why you care about them. You apparently have this all figured out and your investigation is complete, even though the REAL investigations continue. You are correct, there are plenty of FACTS and they change EACH and EVERY day. If you don't like what I have to post, please be an adult and use the Ignore Button. My health from this point forward in NONE of your business, although I get your little jab. I don't know you, I don't like you or your kind, so please feel free to ignore me.....a REAL adult would.

I guess I don’t need anymore facts. A bunch of kids died while a bunch of cops stood by and did nothing for over an hour. Fact. I don’t care who determines if they were in the right, my mind is made up regarding this situation and the leadership that day. I am still a supporter of police officers far and wide though, one incident doesn’t change that.

What about Parkland school resource officer Scot Peterson? That's Two.

The fact that there’s multiple incidents that can be cited doesn’t change anything for me and my positive outlook on law enforcement as a whole. Generally speaking I’m not prepared to believe that a large percentage of law enforcement are weak and or corrupt.

I will third that ^!

I just find it "interesting" there is more discourse on the horribly inappropriate LEO response to this tragedy and less on the moral environment (lack of?) which led to the formation of this monster who is ultimately responsible for all that took place. The lynch mob mentality of many on here displaces the opportunity to find corrections in two areas - that which led to what happened and the response to that insanity.

And adult would recognize consequences for their actions, not believe they can play the victim card after they crowed the loudest and longest.

Caw, caw...

Yup
Family and friends I have in law enforcement all told me exactly the same thing.
When there is a shooter and they are shooting you do not stop, you do not try and help injured, you do not try and help people out, YOU GO STRAIGHT TO THE SOURCE AND END IT!

I'm not sure I understand what facts you are waiting to hear.
The fact is that MULTIPLE cops stood around for over an hour while innocent children and teachers were bleeding out on the floor and literally calling on their phones asking for help instead of doing what all training says to do.........GO KILL THE SOB AT ALL COSTS AND STOP HIS AZZ!

There is not a damn thing that can be said that changes any of it. They didn't do what they were supposed to do and any trained LEO will tell you that.

Yes, well none of what you just stated is any part of my argument about getting to the actual facts, there is no doubt that this entire tragedy should have been avoided or terminated very early. I'm not debating that this went way wrong from the get go and I know and understand active shooter response. In fact this shooter was known as a problem way before this even occurred and should have been on someone's radar. The real bad guy seems to have been forgotten in this investigation. I want to known who caused the delayed entry into those classrooms, what caused the delay, and why that decision was made so hopefully it is never made again. To make one blanket statement that every law enforcement officer who responded should lose their job, be prosecuted or worse is simply insane. I have been involved in many situations involving officers in high risk dangerous situations and I have known very few officers who lacked the courage to do exactly what you stated in your post. I believe there is more to this story that will emerge through these investigations, the investigations will not change the final results that is a fact, we cannot bring back those who died in this tragedy, but allow us to a the very least find out who contributed to this tragic result and hold them responsible. Throwing VooDoo curses, Karma or whatever at everyone at the scene isn't going to change or solve anything. And I have a real question: Do you guys believe that every officer in Uvalde, City, ISD, County Sheriff, DPS, Border Patrol lacked the courage to terminate this situation? I simply believe there is more to this story.

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I absolute do not believe they all lacked the courage to terminate this animal.
What I do believe is we already know who was in charge of the scene but apparently he didn't know he was in charge and certainly wasn't capable of making the right decisions one damn bit.
I question how when there is that many officers there from different departments that someone didn't defy whatever obvious wrong orders were given sooner and go in and kill that SOB and save lives!

I to like you believe there will be more facts that come out. But, the only important fact is that lives could have been saved and they weren't because nobody acted according to PROTOCALL!

^ Yes, everyone of them (on scene) should be fired and held accountable for dereliction of duty from the top down. We already know they will be named in a civil lawsuit at some point...FACT. I have no sympathy for any of them (on scene) and do hope karma finds them and they sleep well at night. Not a single one of them deserve to be a LEO. Cowards, every one of them.

Cut off the nose to spite the face.