I will start by saying I could be 100% wrong here, but I was talking with a buddy about calibers, and it occurred to me there’s a pretty large gap between the .300’s and the .338. I know Jarret wildcatted a .323, but nothing ever seemed to stick. The .325 wssm was a flop. Was there anything else?

Not that popular either but the 8mm Remington Magnum was a Hammer.

I think part of the reason those do not do as good, as calibers go up in size there are fewer wanting one.. Bullet manufactures do a fare job of filling the void between the .308 and .338 diameter with bullet selection with heavy high BC bullets in the 30 cals and lighter ones in the .338. once you get >.308 the popularity of cartridges goes down, some of that is recoil related and the hype about speed.

I've known a couple of people I hunted with that had those
325WSM chambered rifles, but they always said that ammo
and components were scarce from day one
Supposed to be a jackhammer

I had a 325 wsm, it was a absolutely beast .. shot well super accurate recoil was horrid.

Larger calibers tend to be fired less due to cost, recoil, and purpose. Nobody is hunting prairie dogs with a .338 Win Mag, and you usually only get to kill one elk or moose. Therefore there are fewer large cartridges since most are overkill for what they do. As posted, there just isn't a large demand for large calibers or their ammunition. The market is already flooded with large .30s, and there are several .338s that will do the job for bears, moose, etc. You can't really differentiate anything in that gap-what will it do that a .300 PRC, .300WM, .30-378 or any of the others already can't? Since nobody else is loading .325 ammo, you'll be the only one offering bullets/cases.

I honestly thought Winchester made a mistake not calling it the 8mm WSM.

IIRC the .325 WSM was loaded with 180 grain bullets. IMO for deer/elk sized game it wouldn’t offer up anything a .300 win wouldn’t.

As bullet technology has advanced, the need for bigger calibers has really shelved itself into two categories…the .375 and up type stuff for big African game and the .30 cal stuff and under for everything else. If I hunted big moose or trophy elk every year I might could justify a .338 or .340 wby purchase but I don’t do I’ll take either animal handily with my .300 win. Big bears, I would also argue a .338 would be ideal but one could use the .375 and be just fine.

Just not a lot of reasons these days to use a caliber between .30 and .375

I had an 8mm Remington Magnum, wish I never sold it but I was made an offer I could not refuse.
Probably one of the best elk cartridges made. Hogs really don’t like it.
Just don’t forget your ammo, you aren’t finding any in a store.

M

I have a .325 WSM that is great. I wish ammo was easier to find. It s great on the biggest of big game in North America, and also nice to have hunting smaller critters in big bear country. Factory loads were originally 180, 200,and 220 grains, I think. I can find bullets from 160 up to 220. For me, it has nearly the power of .338s, with better ballistics than most .30s.

You should all start shooting one so they offer more factory ammo

Look up the 8x68S.

Chambering's popularity will somewhat follow availability of components.

.224" and .308" bullets are the sizes there are the most options for bullets.

.338" there are more options for bullets than .325". So the .325 rifles get skipped over in sales.

Not too many .325 rifles, so bullet makers are not inclined to produce. It is a vicious cycle.

I have a 325 load 4451 and 160 ttsx only 100 fps slower than my 300 wby way less recoil absolutey hits just as hard it was a produt of drinking and internetting but worked out real well just kneck up 270 or 300wsm brass

I hunted with a few German and Hungarian folks and that was their round of choice. The have their Blaser’s chambered in them, they are pretty stout. They have a wild hog problem worse than we do.

Once I start thinking something bigger than a 30, I start to think I am looking for something slower as well. For the way I hunt a 35Whelen or 350Rem Mag is about as "big and fast" as I want. And I usually feel more at home with something even slower than that like a 356Winchester or 444Marlin.

Big and fast usually ends up beating the snot out of you.

I’ve never understood where the mentality came from that wild hogs require big guns to bring down.

I’ve killed a bunch with a .22LR. People that recommend big bore rounds for pigs always leaves me scratching my head

I agree with you there, when I was thinking about a moose hunt I ran across a Remington 700 Classic in 350 Remington Mag. Never did the Moose hunt but it has worked well on elk, mule and whitetail deer and hogs. 225gr Nosler Partition running 2700 at the muzzle has never let me down.

8x57 Mauser has a big following in both Europe and Africa and with modern ammo is very good. Rather than trying to reinvent the wheel just go with what has been working for over 100 years. Why Americans think only they know how to come up with effective rounds is beyond me. 375 H&H Mag, 300 H&H Mag, 6.5x55, 7x57, 8x57, 9.3x62 etc... are all European rounds and they have all stood the test of time.

It comes from the same place I got it from when I was younger.
Gun magazine articles. And these days, the internet

Efficiency and accuracy. Sure, we are duplicating performance of cartridges from years past, but some of them just do it better.

If you are "duplicating" then you are not improving ergo, they are not doing it better. Kind of like the 6.5 Creed. The 260 Rem, 6.5 Rem Mag, 6.5x57 and even the 6.5x55 Swede all top the Creed in velocity but people jumped on the Creed when in fact there was no real reason for it to exist. Same can be said for the 35 Whelen. No reason for that when the 9.3x62 Mauser has existed since 1906 and it a better round.

It comes down to marketing hype, not performance or need.

To get a .260 Rem to shoot the same bullet at the same speed as a 6.5 Creedmoor, you need a whole grain more of powder to do it. Thays somewhat significant when loads are tested .2 to .3 grain apart.

Remington could have invented a winner with the .260 Rem, but Reminton was their own worst enemy. They failed to support their cartridge with good ammo, and bullet choices. Hornady made a case geometry that is more fuel efficient, loaded a fairly heavy sleek bullet, then cranked out plenty of ammo for the cartridge. It has only been around since 2007. It is not just marketing, it is something that works. And everyone likes things that work. And everyone likes availability of ammunition. .260 brass can be had, ammo I do not know. 6.5x55, 6.5x57, and 6.5 Rem Mag are what I would call boutique cartridges these days. The 6.5 Creedmoor is killing them.

You may not realize it but you made my point. The 260 Rem (as well as the other rounds I mentioned) all did exactly what the Creed does. The Creed had no reason to exist. The platforms for that performance already existed. Whether the makers at the time understood that or not is a moot point. The Creed filled a niche that really didn't even exist. Look up the ballistics and the loading data for the rounds I mentioned and you'll see what I mean. All of them meet or exceed the velocities and performance of the Creed but they didn't have the marketing hype. A 140 gr bullet (give or take a few grains of weight) launched from a Creed is no more lethal or effective than the same weight bullet launched at the same velocity from any previously released 6.5mm cartridge. PERIOD. The only difference is marketing hype.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Using data from the Hodgdon site for the Creed, 260 Rem and the Swede and a 140 gr bullet velocities of 2520-2700 fps is attainable for all with the same 140 gr Hornady bullet with only slight differences in powder weights. So tell me how is the Creed any more effective that the Swede or the 260 Rem? And remember the Swede has been since 1894 and the 260 Rem has been around as a factory round since 1997.

Remington did not offer a 140 gr bullet, with a G-1 BC over .550

To get the .260 Rem to make a 140 gr have a 2800 fps MV out of a 24" barrel, it has to be hand loaded. So does the 6.5 Creedmoor. Factory ammo is not going to make that speed in either cartridge. But, you're probably not going to find a history of Remington ever offering a 140 gr, with a very good BC. Hornady came straight out of the gates with it. And have added 143 gr and 147 gr in 6.5 Creedmoor.

I got into precision rifle matches before there was a PRS. There were lots of .260 Rems out there, and I shot one as well. Custom built rifle, on an Obermeyer barrel. It shot phenomenal, until I shot it out at 2500 rounds down it. I moved to 6.5 Creedmoor after that barrel, shot it out at 2500 rounds, and am on a second 6.5 Creedmoor. The .260 Rem can be a bit more fussy, to get it to tune. It takes more powder to get it up to speeds of the 6.5 Creedmoor. People that drop off rifles to me, I have had to hand load for .260 Rem more than 6.5 Creedmoor, because the 6.5 Creedmoor people can buy ammo for that they are happy with.

Hornady set out to make a cartridge a person could hunt with (over 100 years experience with Europeans using the old ones you mentioned) and a cartridge a person could effectively shoot long range for fun, and they didn't have time be a hand loader to do it. No one will hang in those matches running many factory .260 Rem offerings. But people can hang with many 6.5 Creedmoor offerings.

I said better fuel mileage. I will be getting a 6.5 Swede in some time this year. I am curious to see the velocities the best loads make. My bet is it is not making 2800 fps with less than 43.0 gr of powder.

6.5 SAUM was somewhat boutique as well. Hornady tweaked it into the 6.5 PRC. And offered ammo for it.

.300 Win Mag is a long proven cartridge. For hunting, military Snipers, and long range target shooters. Hornady recognized the success of the 30° shoulder, recognized a straighter case wall still feeds just fine and increases powder capacity, and recognized we do not need the belt. We now have the .300 PRC. It is a better mouse trap than the .300 Win Mag. Brass availability is not where it needs to be just yet.

I give as much credit to Remington for the Creedmoor as I do Hornady. The put out a cartridge that proves the potential but then [censored] the bed not supporting it. The Creedmoor was needed and as much as I hate it has been significant in boosting the sport of long range shooting. When you can buy a CTR and Hornady Black ammo from Academy, then go ring 1 moa steel at 500 with that set up the next day, you’ve accomplished something.

As I already stated, THAT IS A MOOT POINT. I am talking about the platform and not the individual rounds. Are you really so obtuse that you don't grasp that the Creed really has NOTHING over the 260 Rem if they are loaded with the same bullet? Look at the loading data. All someone needed to do was take the existing platform and offer a different load. But they didn't take that route because they saw an opportunity to sell a lot of new rifles and new ammo and that is why the marketing hype came around. Listen carefully: THE CREED FILLED A NICHE THAT DID NOT ACTUALLY EXIST!!!!!

They succeeded in separating a lot of people from their $$$ with a really slick advertising and marketing campaign. Either you see it or you are blind. I'm betting you're blind. I have a Rem 700 Classic in 6.5x55 Swede and there is NOT one thing the Creed will ever do better than the Swede and considering the Swede has a bigger case I can actually best any loading the Creed has. The Swede has been around since 1894 and has always been very popular in both Europe and Africa, places I doubt you have ever been.

And, as I previously noted, Americans (like you) tend to think only America can produce good rounds when in fact Europe has been doing it for years. The whole gist of this thread is a round in .325 (8mm) and Europe has been producing great 8mm chamberings for well over a century and the same can be said for 6.5mm chamberings. You fell for the Creed hype, I won't because I have the ability to think.