I am going to purchase my first thermal and am looking at the AGM Rattler. I have seen a few positive reviews around but just wanted to see if anyone else had any other experience with these scopes or AGM in general. I am looking at the TS19-256 or the TS25-256. I know the lens size is different, but do you really gain anything significant going from the 19 to 25?

I may POSSIBLY consider bumping up to the TS25-384. Is the increased cost really worth it? I don’t need anything super fancy. I will be using this thermal to mostly shoot hogs and coyotes at about 100 yards but no more than 200. Thanks.

Same here I am watching 🤠😎

I've hunted with and tested them all and my opinion is, the Rattler TS25-384 is absolutely worth the extra money. I'd personally take a good digital NV scope like a Sightmark Wraith HD or 4K over the 256 thermals because I think the Wraith is more useful since you can shoot and ID further with it right out of the box than you can with the 256 thermals.

At this point, I believe for 99% of hunters the TS25-384 needs to be the entry point into thermal scopes. It's just so much better and a much better value for the dollar. I've sold a few 256 scopes and it seems like most every buyer, no matter how much I warn them and give them the realistic capabilities, ends up being a little disappointed because they were hoping for more than they got. Just my 2 cents.

A buddy of mine is real knowledgable on thermals and night vision. He’s been doing it for a long time and has worked with the owners of AGM and many others. His advise was for me to get as big of a lens as I could afford.

I decided to go with the rattler 35 and was really impressed with the quality of the picture! Here’s a video after I stepped off 120 yards the first night I got it so you can get a feel. (Sorry it’s so jumpy, my daughter was just holding it up)

[video:youtube]https://youtube.com/shorts/RpYhI32y93E?feature=share[/video]

The video capability is really cool and the built in Wi-Fi just throws it to your phone or tablet, so others can see what you are seeing through the scope in real time.

The problem came when it was time to sight it in. Each “click” would shift POI by a good 4” at 50 yards. That’s 8” at 100 and just not acceptable, so I sent it back.
***I did hear those bugs have now been fixed with a firmware update and now each “click” moves it about 1/4”.
I recently joined some Facebook groups and realized I wasn’t the only one with this same issue. Some of the scopes seem to have had it, and some didn’t.

Their new Adder is supposed to be out next month (fingers crossed) and apparently will have many upgrades over the rattler at the same price point. (Built in rechargeable batteries with 15 hr run time, detection range of 1800-2600m depending on lens size, video & audio recording, 64 GB built storage, and 12 micron sensor). Although I’m not sure what having a smaller sensor does besides make it less expensive for the manufacture??? Looks more like a regular scope only it’s huge. Either way, I’m gonna take a hard look at it when it’s out.

Be sure to also pay attention to the base power magnification. The zooms on these thermals are digital, so you loose quality big time when you start zooming in. (It basically cuts the quality in half every time you zoom). Most people I speak with do their shooting on the base power so it’s as clear as it can get. The adder 50 will have 4x which basically doubles the rattler 35’s base mag. But… with the increased base magnification usually comes a decreased field of view, so that’s something to keep in mind as well. There’s lots to consider and I’m just getting started with this stuff. Jason with Outdoor Legacy above would be a great guy to turn to with any questions. He’s got some great podcasts!

There is a lot to be said for this statement above.

I will add that like buying a house, when you buy thermal, you should buy as much as you can or as much as you are willing to afford that meets your needs. That isn't to say that spending more will necessarily get you a better scope with the same value for the dollar, but more often than not, cheaping out results in unsatisfactory results. If you have a $3k budget, chances are the $2k thermal isn't going be on par with 3K thermals.

Just so DNS has to see it again

I am sure you are trying to make a point, but I don't think you know what it is.

That’s not the actual sensor size, that’s the size of the individual pixel elements on the sensor. However, for a given resolution, smaller pixels will allow for a smaller overall sensor size. That can allow the manufacturer to make the overall unit smaller and lighter which makes sense if it is going to sit on top of a rifle being carried around a lot. But if you take a sensor of a given size, then shrink the size of the individual photo sites, you can put more of them on the same size sensor (resolution increase) which will give an image with higher detail.

Thx GNTX, that helps. I also found this podcast by thelatenightvisionshow that helped me understand it better
https://youtu.be/JXOly_pmuPA

No problem. Glad it helped a little.

From another Greg.

I got the AGM TS19-256. It does everything I need it to. It cost me $900 shipped to my door.

1. It eats batteries. Expected. Going with an external power supply. CR123A
2. It steps thru magnification from 2.5x, 5x, 10x, 20x. Can't go back to 2.5x from 5x, have to go to 10x and 20x first. 10x and 20x is worthless!
3. I can perform recognition out to 300+ yards. More than I need for where I hunt.
4. 5 different reticle options, thus 5 different zeroing allowances.
5. 3 different reticle colors.
6. FOV is fine for my use.
7. Had to add an extended picatinny rail to my bolt gun to get the right eye relief position.
8. Info I had said 1" sight adjustment for each X or Y "click". NOPE. It was 1/4".

* My feeder is ~100 yards away. I can detect the level of corn inside the plastic hopper.
* I can detect mice in the grass at 100+ yards.

It's worth the $$$.


*** I had an ATN, only because I got it at the Cabela's bargain cave for $200. What a POS. I got rid of it.


Note regarding Pixels. A 12 micron pixel is the Diagonal, as measured of that specific pixel. The "Array" will contain a finite number of pixels dependent on the size of the array and the size of the pixels within that array. An Array with 12 micron pixels as opposed to 17 micron pixels will provide for a better Image Quality. The gap between the pixels also effects performance, although that is a standard now of 0.7 microns.

*** Some manufacturers provide the "quality" or "defects" rating of the array. In my experience, DLP - digital light processing, DMD - digital micromirror device, we rated the Image Quality as 1 to 5, with 1 being defect free and the most expensive. I see that with most Thermals, a rating of "C" is common. I interpret this as an array with midrange defects, meaning that there are a number of pixels that are either "stuck" on or off, "dead", or are free floating - "twinkler".
*** What does this mean? A second generation unit with a defect free array might be better than a third generation unit with a "c" grade unit. However, most folks can't tell the difference and will never know the difference.