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Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? #8517810 01/31/22 03:00 AM
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I got a bow for Christmas this year. Finished out my season shooting the bow, from that point on. Tag soup… wasn’t going well anyway. I actually had one good opportunity with the bow and blew it, now I am obsessed.

Nothing wrong with the bow but I am developing an obsession with this something like when I geeked out on pellet guns. I am completely obsessed and shoot almost every free moment I can get. Wore out my arrow stop in about a day, lol.

Looking at upgrading, still plan to hunt the next season with this bow I have because I am DEAD SET on killing something with it. But as soon as I get some blood on it I want to pass it down and move on.

I am shooting 70 ib bow with a 31” draw length. Seems a smidge short to me. I catch myself pulling hard against the back of the draw. I want something 80 pounds or heavier and that features an extended draw length.

Any ideas? I am leaning toward a bowtech revolt xl but they max out at 70 ibs. I tend to favor the bow tech stuff, I like it and the archery shop in town near me is all about the bow tech, so I can get the best service there with probably a bow tech product.

I can handle a pretty heavy compound.

Thanks smile

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 01/31/22 03:01 AM.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8517825 01/31/22 03:28 AM
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Bryan, a few thoughts.

Heavy poundage is not required but if you can easily handle it nothing wrong unless you are out there on a cod day with stuff muscles from sitting still and that bow can feel real different. Pick a poundage you can draw easily sitting on the ground. Without extra movement, like sky draw. My draw length measures at 29 inches and I shoot that fine but set it at 28.5. A little short tome is better for hunting as you might not always have the perfect stance or shooting position.

Brand I am not really loyal to any, shoot as many as you can
and let the bow tell you which feels best.


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8517850 01/31/22 04:07 AM
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[align:right][/align]What bow do you have now?

If your draw is 31” 70 lbs will absolutely smoke an arrow with just about any manufacturers flag ship bow. No reason to go heavier, but you can always twist the string to get a heavier draw

What type of game are you planning on hunting primarily? A 60# bow at that draw length will suffice for 100% of whitetail hunting.

Before I can make a recommendation I need to know what bow you are currently in and what your primary hunting quarry is


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8517868 01/31/22 04:59 AM
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I shoot a off brand bow my wife got on Amazon. It’s not a bad bow, pushes a 490 grain arrow about 260 feet per second. I’m sure it will kill whatever needs killing.

I am mainly after whitetails, probably Colorado elk in the near future. I have a couple of invites for that hunt but no time for anything but work these days.

I did my deer hunting 2-3 hours at a time maybe once a week. And that was really trying to get out there. My longest sit was in the worst weather. I can draw 70 pretty easy even when I am cold and wet.

I don’t think draw weight is much of an issue, 70 ibs I have literally shot all day. I used 65 pounds with maybe 50 percent letoff when I was 15.

Anyway I guess my point is, I just want more. Can use more, why not? I want to punch a mechanical broadhead through both shoulders if when I miss without a super heavy set up. A bow I can set up with a single pin and shoot 30 yards plus with a 550 grain arrow.


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8517952 01/31/22 01:09 PM
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I should probably add, gun deer season where I live is ten days. Then ten days gun doe, and ten days muzzle loader. In a ten day period I have 1-2 days off and often too busy to sit a whole day.

I can hunt with a bow from October through mid January.

So this will be my main rig for hunting in general. Opening day gun deer I was surrounded in the deepest part of public ground I could find, by orange.

So I’ll probably forego rifle deer until I own property.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 01/31/22 01:21 PM.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8518406 01/31/22 08:43 PM
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Get the Revolt X80 if you have to shoot 80 pounds. I don’t see the point in shooting 80#s unless you are going after dangerous game.

Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8518763 02/01/22 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
I shoot a off brand bow my wife got on Amazon. It’s not a bad bow, pushes a 490 grain arrow about 260 feet per second. I’m sure it will kill whatever needs killing.

I am mainly after whitetails, probably Colorado elk in the near future. I have a couple of invites for that hunt but no time for anything but work these days.

I did my deer hunting 2-3 hours at a time maybe once a week. And that was really trying to get out there. My longest sit was in the worst weather. I can draw 70 pretty easy even when I am cold and wet.

I don’t think draw weight is much of an issue, 70 ibs I have literally shot all day. I used 65 pounds with maybe 50 percent letoff when I was 15.

Anyway I guess my point is, I just want more. Can use more, why not? I want to punch a mechanical broadhead through both shoulders if when I miss without a super heavy set up. A bow I can set up with a single pin and shoot 30 yards plus with a 550 grain arrow.




Well, what you have now will certainly suffice for whitetail just fine, but its nowhere near what modern bows are capable of doing.

I choose my bows based off of shootability, speed and accuracy. I don't want a lightning fast bow that is hard on the draw and gives alot of hand shock. I don't want a bow that is easy to shoot but slow as molassas. I don't want a fast and easy to shoot bow that isn't accurate at distance ( my mathews halon was this bow )

Its hard to fit a do it all bow into one platform, and I would rather build a bow around they type of hunting you are likely to do rather than a one off elk hunt. 70#'s isn't alot of weight for a adult male to pull so I'm not going to talk to you about draw weight, if your comfortable pulling 70# do it.

I personally like a little bit longer Axle to Axle length, 32-33" is what i find most comfortable. Also tend to be a little more accurate. i also like a tad heavier bow as they are more steady in the hand.

Most any Manufacturer will have a flagship line that will fit you. I like Mathews ( great bows for whitetail hunting ), Elite ( I currently shoot an Enkore and love it ), Prime, Bow Tech, Hoyt......all make good bows. It really comes down to what you shoot well. I would give Elite a strong look as well as Prime.


I don't think you will be able to draw enough weight to punch a mechanical thru the shoulder blades of a whitetail buck.....mechanicals are not designed to penetrate like that. I shot a small doe right in the shoulder with my Mathews at 20 yards and it didn't pass thru. Deer maybe weighed 70 lbs. Arrow weight, speed and broadhead design are gonna come more into play here than draw weight....my 80lbs of draw is going to perform a lot less than your 80 lbs. Single pin sights are a possibility, i prefer multi-pin. I could shoot 1 pin to 30 with some mental adjustment but I stick with pins from 20-70 and an adjustable single pin from 20-120.


Get a good drop away rest like a Rip Cord, QAD or a Hamskea. I like Micro Diameter Arrows but am now shooting 5mm Black Eagle Instincts that I am very impressed with.



you get a good setup and a few kills under your belt, you will find your bow will become your primary hunting weapon. I bow hunt all season long and very rarely take a rifle out after whitetails.



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8520034 02/02/22 04:41 AM
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I've busted through shoulders on big pigs with mechanical heads, whitetail in Missouri that weighed 200lbs on the hoof and plumb through both shoulders on Texas whitetail with 70lb Mathews bows. My 60lb Hoyt hasn't gotten as many kills as I've gone single string crazy but just last year (2020 season) I punched Rage heads all the way through these two.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8520145 02/02/22 01:32 PM
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Passthru what kind of rage heads are you using?


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: passthru] #8520199 02/02/22 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by passthru
I've busted through shoulders on big pigs with mechanical heads, whitetail in Missouri that weighed 200lbs on the hoof and plumb through both shoulders on Texas whitetail with 70lb Mathews bows. My 60lb Hoyt hasn't gotten as many kills as I've gone single string crazy but just last year (2020 season) I punched Rage heads all the way through these two.



by shoulder shot I mean a legit scapula hit. A mechanical ( or most other broadheads for that matter ) are gonna have a hard time punching thru a true shoulder shot.

neither one of those pigs looked like they got hit in the shoulder.


I shoot Wasp Jackhammers and Rage Trypans and 3 blade Chisel tips myself





For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8521897 02/03/22 09:29 PM
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Apparently the rage hypodermic will do it on 500 grain total arrow weight and 80 pounds at 32” draw, from 40 yards, to a whitetail. Both scapula. That’s pushing about 300 fps.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 02/03/22 09:29 PM.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8522010 02/03/22 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
Apparently the rage hypodermic will do it on 500 grain total arrow weight and 80 pounds at 32” draw, from 40 yards, to a whitetail. Both scapula. That’s pushing about 300 fps.



Did it do it one time, or will it do it every time?

In any case, a shoulder shot with archery equipment is a bad idea and should be avoided


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: txtrophy85] #8522065 02/04/22 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
Apparently the rage hypodermic will do it on 500 grain total arrow weight and 80 pounds at 32” draw, from 40 yards, to a whitetail. Both scapula. That’s pushing about 300 fps.



Did it do it one time, or will it do it every time?

In any case, a shoulder shot with archery equipment is a bad idea and should be avoided


Agree 85, just because it punches through a scapula there are other harder bones in that region even from top of scapula to bottom and that joint between the leg and scapula are much larger and harder to punch through. Then there is that part of the scapula that sticks out at 90 degrees one blade catch it and I would expect that to effect both lenetration and angle of arrow the rest of the way


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8522170 02/04/22 01:51 AM
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There’s not really any good vital tissue in the shoulders anyway. Unless you have a centerfire rifle. Not planning to aim for the shoulders.

I just want a bow that can do it. A lot can happen that you don’t plan for.


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8522235 02/04/22 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
There’s not really any good vital tissue in the shoulders anyway. Unless you have a centerfire rifle. Not planning to aim for the shoulders.

I just want a bow that can do it. A lot can happen that you don’t plan for.



It’s more about the broadhead and arrow set up. Heavy arrow shooting a single bevel tanto tip head is what you need to get thru the shoulders every time. But that setup you lose trajectory and two blade blood trails are no where near as good as a 3 blade expandable. So there is a big trade off.

With your draw length, a 70 -75 lb bow will send an arrow sizzling. My partner shoots the vertix and at 75 lbs and a 490 grain arrow he is shooting 314 fps. That’s lightning fast.

My Elite, at my draw length, I’m pulling 80 lbs and a 443 grain arrow I’m shooting 290 fps. I have the higher rated bow as well.


You are going to be fine with any flagship bow, 70-75 lbs and a appropriate hunting weight arrow.

Last edited by txtrophy85; 02/04/22 03:02 AM.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8524789 02/06/22 06:08 PM
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If I could push more than 500 grains faster than 300 fps I would be pretty content. I would like to push a full 650 grain arrow as fast as possible, 270 fps or more. With my current setup pushing 490 grains 260 fps, I can sight in one pin to hit a little low at 30 and keep everything inside a 6” circle from 30 yards in, without trying to hold over or under and even in a little bit of wind. 6 shot groups in a pattern size of my fist at 30 yards.

A heavier arrow moving just a hair faster and I could do that with enough wiggle room for confidence. Push that limit to 35 or 40 yards and I can play 30 yards and in with confidence and enough power to penetrate scapula on a bad shot.

But a bow that powerful probably doesn’t need a 650 grain arrow to sing through both shoulders. I have been listening to Dr. Ashby in the podcasts. Even Dr. Ashby admits, a more powerful bow SHOULD reach the “heavy bone threshold” with less then 650 grains given a strong and stiff enough arrow, but they have not made it that far in the research to prove it.

I’m hunting whitetails and pigs. Not Buffalo or big dangerous game. Surely there are bow hunters with a lot more experience than me that think the same way I do. When I do my part I can keep 6 arrows inside a fist sized group or smaller with field points. My best at 30 was better than my best at 20 that tells me my setup is capable of better than I am. So maybe perfectly tuned arrows can do better but for now I have room to grow with this setup for sure.

With the Montec heads I don’t have the same kind of consistency, that’s why I want to shoot the Rage heads.

I’m not trying to brag or sound tough but this has to be said. The effort to pull peak draw weight of any modern bow is not even a consideration I worry about. I used to do lawnmower rows with 100+ pounds for several good full reps. I haven’t lifted in years but I have plenty of natural strength to pull any modern compound bow. I just had to make that point. Sure, I’d like to shoot the easiest drawing bow I can get to accomplish all this. But it’s just annoying when everyone is telling you that you need a softer bow. I don’t.

What I have read online I might be measuring my draw length completely wrong and anchoring my bow wrong too.

Anyway right now out to 30 yards doesn’t leave me a lot of wiggle room. I want to nail that 6” target or smaller with consistency on one pin even if I am having a bad day.

So bow tech or not bow tech, ideally I would have at least 30 yards range on one pin with some wiggle room for error in range estimation. And enough power to push through both shoulders in case I make a bad shot. I kind of have my heart set on the two blade rage heads, that seems to be the best compromise between penetration, blood trail, and accuracy.

So if you have recommendation for matthews or etc as well let me hear it. If you are going to recommend different draw weight then maybe suggest a lower draw bow that’s more powerful than bow tech can make at the same draw?

Resale value is not important. Once I get set up I am gonna shoot that thing until I’m dead, crippled, or I break it. If resale was even a consideration I wouldn’t use a bow at all.

I appreciate the feedback, I am already looking in a different direction from where I started.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 02/06/22 06:43 PM.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8524834 02/06/22 06:54 PM
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My “wingspan” is 75”, I guess that makes my draw length 30”.


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8525492 02/07/22 03:28 PM
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That 6” drop was wrong. I must have been shooting two pins that day lol


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8525890 02/08/22 12:36 AM
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Are you 6'8"? What is your experience bowhunting? How many animals have you killed? Hard to give advice without knowing the whole story. My experience with two blade Rage heads are giant entry holes and small or no exit. I do like them and have killed several deer with them. I've been shooting fixed heads lately and get complete passthroughs on every shot. Just not as good blood trails. For me faster bows have been less accurate. Personally I find accuracy to be far more important than blazing fast. I'm shooting a Bowtech 360 at 60lbs and 300fps. I get passthroughs on most shots but this bow is less forgiving at longer ranges. Inside of 30 yards it's fine but my prior Bowtech bows were more accurate at longer ranges.

Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8525909 02/08/22 12:57 AM
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I’m 6’1”. I measure 75” fingertip to fingertip across my back. No experience bow hunting. Well very little. I finished my season out with my new bow this year but didn’t kill anything.

First time picking up a bow since I was a teenager. When I was 15 I shot 65 pounds compound off my fingers and bowfished almost exclusively.

I shoot all day with my 70 pound no name bow.

With my bow set at 30” it stops perfectly at the corner of my mouth when I shoot off my fingers. So that’s the length I am going to stick with I just need to learn to anchor with my release.

Shooting with fingers everything is in line with my eye naturally. With the release it’s tricky.

Now I am looking at longer bows. There are no 80 pound bows that are as long as I would like. 38” axle to axle appeals to me the most.

Edit- ChrisB what do you know about the bow tech specialist?

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 02/08/22 01:02 AM.

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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: ChrisB] #8525937 02/08/22 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by ChrisB
Are you 6'8"? What is your experience bowhunting? How many animals have you killed? Hard to give advice without knowing the whole story. My experience with two blade Rage heads are giant entry holes and small or no exit. I do like them and have killed several deer with them. I've been shooting fixed heads lately and get complete passthroughs on every shot. Just not as good blood trails. For me faster bows have been less accurate. Personally I find accuracy to be far more important than blazing fast. I'm shooting a Bowtech 360 at 60lbs and 300fps. I get passthroughs on most shots but this bow is less forgiving at longer ranges. Inside of 30 yards it's fine but my prior Bowtech bows were more accurate at longer ranges.


What grain arrow are your shooting? At 20-30 yards you should be getting full pass thrus with rage heads


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: txtrophy85] #8525956 02/08/22 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by ChrisB
Are you 6'8"? What is your experience bowhunting? How many animals have you killed? Hard to give advice without knowing the whole story. My experience with two blade Rage heads are giant entry holes and small or no exit. I do like them and have killed several deer with them. I've been shooting fixed heads lately and get complete passthroughs on every shot. Just not as good blood trails. For me faster bows have been less accurate. Personally I find accuracy to be far more important than blazing fast. I'm shooting a Bowtech 360 at 60lbs and 300fps. I get passthroughs on most shots but this bow is less forgiving at longer ranges. Inside of 30 yards it's fine but my prior Bowtech bows were more accurate at longer ranges.


What grain arrow are your shooting? At 20-30 yards you should be getting full pass thrus with rage heads

I forget the weight. They are Victory RIPs with 60 grain stainless outserts. Those Rage are weird. They rip giant holes going in but travel through the animal different than all other heads i've shot. I shot a doe with the fixed blade NAP hellrazor this year that the arrow went 40 yards after passing through.

Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8525967 02/08/22 01:59 AM
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Bryan I doubt your actual draw length is 31". I'm 6' @ 28.75" draw. You should go to a good proshop and let them measure you. I made the mistake of drawing to long when I started out. I don't know anything about the Specialist. If I bought a new one today it would be the Revolt XL at 60lbs. I have shot 70lb bows in the past and can draw 80lb. But I've learned it's all about accuracy. And to be accurate every time its easier at a lower draw weight.

Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8526009 02/08/22 02:32 AM
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I already posted twice now that I set it up at 30” and that I measured it at 30” based on 75” wingspan. I used to be a little over 6’2”. This is what happens when you jump out of perfectly good airplanes about 30 times.

Set at 30” I can pull my index finger into the corner of my mouth at the end of my draw comfortably.

Set at 31” I occasionally tag my forearm with the string. In a day of shooting I can get a little welt.

I planned to hit up the archery store that cut my arrows this weekend but I had to work Saturday morning and spent the evening decorating for my daughters bday party. Had a great time!

They are closed Sunday. Next weekend I guess. Meanwhile I am experimenting with my peep position and using power pro braid for serving string lol.

The Specialist II is a target bow that maxes out at 60 ibs. It’s 38” axle to axle, which should relieve the finger pinch shooting off fingers. I think it’s like a 7.5” brace height I can’t remember. And supposed to be a great target bow plus the price is right. Available in OD green that’s close enough to camo for me.

So should be a forgiving and accurate bow.


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Re: Recommendations for intermediate/upgrade? [Re: 10 Gauge] #8526060 02/08/22 03:34 AM
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Sounds like 30 will be about right for you. I find much better accuracy with a release when shooting compounds with the fingers and the let off of a compound just do not get as a smooth of a release with fingers especially with high let off bows. Try a release or 3 before deciding, most bow shops will have several for customers to try. .

The=at Specialist should be much more forgiving when shooting with fingers though.


I am 5'8" with 73 inches finger tip to finger tip and shoot at 28.5 inches though 29 is comfortable to me and I do not hit the arm or even come close to it at 29 inches and shot longer when checking out customer bows. . In college I shot an 80lb bow at 29 inches with fingers that had a 50% letoff, that bow I could shoot much better with fingers than I can a bow of the same length these days that has an 80% let off.




Last edited by kmon11; 02/08/22 03:36 AM.

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