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Question about deer growth
#8498904
01/09/22 01:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 55
The_Whitetail_Kid
OP
Outdoorsman
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OP
Outdoorsman
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 55 |
I was wondering, do deer grow much between ages 5.5 and 6.5? Or is the majority of the growing done before that up until say 4.5? I had a buck on cam last year that didn’t do much from ages 5.5 to 6.5, so I was wondering if this is the case most often, or if it just depends on the deer. Thanks.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8498938
01/09/22 02:57 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
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Body/skeleton wise they usually are done growing at 4, they will add weight every year till 6-7 yrs of age. Antler wise there are a ton of variables. Some deer jump from 3 to 4, some from 4 to 5, some from 5 to 6 and some from 6 to 7. Some even getter better up till 9 yrs or so. What factors in are genetics, nutrition, rainfall the year the buck was born, rainfall this antler growth year, age structure of the herd, rutting by age class, buck to doe ratio, injury during the rut, etc...to many factors to say why bucks do what they do from year to year. With the right genetics and nutrition bucks will gain antler growth every year. Those size of those yearly gains are again limited to genetics and nutrition. Many bucks will average around 5%-6% each year after age 2 or 3. Wet years with rainfall in all the key months from late rut to post rut into the spring then summer can have a huge effect in one year on antler growth. Seen bucks jump 20%-30% at mature ages.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8498942
01/09/22 03:05 AM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,977
Hudbone
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Personally seen a buck gain almost thirty inches between 5 & 6. Seen the same between 6 & 7. Biggest I have ever heard evidence on is about 50. A lot has to come together to provide for these increases.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: stxranchman]
#8499962
01/10/22 01:30 PM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 9,794
ILUVBIGBUCKS
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Body/skeleton wise they usually are done growing at 4, they will add weight every year till 6-7 yrs of age. Antler wise there are a ton of variables. Some deer jump from 3 to 4, some from 4 to 5, some from 5 to 6 and some from 6 to 7. Some even getter better up till 9 yrs or so. What factors in are genetics, nutrition, rainfall the year the buck was born, rainfall this antler growth year, age structure of the herd, rutting by age class, buck to doe ratio, injury during the rut, etc...to many factors to say why bucks do what they do from year to year. With the right genetics and nutrition bucks will gain antler growth every year. Those size of those yearly gains are again limited to genetics and nutrition. Many bucks will average around 5%-6% each year after age 2 or 3. Wet years with rainfall in all the key months from late rut to post rut into the spring then summer can have a huge effect in one year on antler growth. Seen bucks jump 20%-30% at mature ages. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^BANK THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Great post stxrm!
High fence, low fence, no fence, it really doesn't matter as long as you're hunting!
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502042
01/12/22 06:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 11,251
Texas buckeye
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There is also some evidence/research that shows a mama living in chronic drought conditions where food is scarce will drop bucks that will have to take years before the genotype can start expressing phenotypically, even if given ample current food sources. It could even be several generations. So there are a lot of factors that go into body phenotype and antler phenotype expression that may have nothing at all to do with the actual animal and current conditions but simply the genetics (which this falls under the global "genetics" as STX said) being turned on and off that can be generational type changes. When you start looking at phenotypic expression of genotypes, it gets really messy.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#8502066
01/12/22 07:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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There is also some evidence/research that shows a mama living in chronic drought conditions where food is scarce will drop bucks that will have to take years before the genotype can start expressing phenotypically, even if given ample current food sources. It could even be several generations. So there are a lot of factors that go into body phenotype and antler phenotype expression that may have nothing at all to do with the actual animal and current conditions but simply the genetics (which this falls under the global "genetics" as STX said) being turned on and off that can be generational type changes. When you start looking at phenotypic expression of genotypes, it gets really messy.
Maternal condition has been well studied in Mule deer also Easy google search for some great research papers “maternal condition in Mule deer”
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Hudbone]
#8502067
01/12/22 07:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656
BOBO the Clown
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kind of a big deal
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Personally seen a buck gain almost thirty inches between 5 & 6. Seen the same between 6 & 7. Biggest I have ever heard evidence on is about 50. A lot has to come together to provide for these increases. Heck I saw a spike do 50 from 1-2 STX
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502193
01/12/22 09:37 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,468
Smokey Bear
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I hunt low fence with native genetics. We have strong age classes of older bucks. A lot of the five year olds run themselves way down in the rut. I’ve seen a lot of those same mature and badly rutted down bucks with above average head gear have an off year antler wise the following year at six only to bounce back at 7 with their best antlers to date. Have also watched a buck that made gains every year till he was killed at age 9. Most of our bucks that end up eventually getting big make the biggest jump at 4. Prior to that we can often not identify the deer that will blossom.
Edit to add full disclosure: we also let a lot of bucks walk well past their prime being overly optimistic.
Last edited by Smokey Bear; 01/12/22 09:47 PM.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502272
01/12/22 11:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 15,036
don k
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I am confused. Growing body weight or antler?
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8502419
01/13/22 01:53 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,088
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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I hunt low fence with native genetics. We have strong age classes of older bucks. A lot of the five year olds run themselves way down in the rut. I’ve seen a lot of those same mature and badly rutted down bucks with above average head gear have an off year antler wise the following year at six only to bounce back at 7 with their best antlers to date. Have also watched a buck that made gains every year till he was killed at age 9. Most of our bucks that end up eventually getting big make the biggest jump at 4. Prior to that we can often not identify the deer that will blossom.
Edit to add full disclosure: we also let a lot of bucks walk well past their prime being overly optimistic. Smokey, great post. A lot of other really good post too but as much as I respect Smokeys knowledge, it doesn’t seem he goes all in(often enough) on topics like this. As far letting them go past prime, how do we ever know anything till we push the perceived limit. Go too far and then come back and adjust. Question Smokey-would the 6s not get run down also and hurt growth at 7, or are you assuming rutting isn’t as active after 5?
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: freerange]
#8502545
01/13/22 03:50 AM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,468
Smokey Bear
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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I hunt low fence with native genetics. We have strong age classes of older bucks. A lot of the five year olds run themselves way down in the rut. I’ve seen a lot of those same mature and badly rutted down bucks with above average head gear have an off year antler wise the following year at six only to bounce back at 7 with their best antlers to date. Have also watched a buck that made gains every year till he was killed at age 9. Most of our bucks that end up eventually getting big make the biggest jump at 4. Prior to that we can often not identify the deer that will blossom.
Edit to add full disclosure: we also let a lot of bucks walk well past their prime being overly optimistic. Smokey, great post. A lot of other really good post too but as much as I respect Smokeys knowledge, it doesn’t seem he goes all in(often enough) on topics like this. As far letting them go past prime, how do we ever know anything till we push the perceived limit. Go too far and then come back and adjust. Question Smokey-would the 6s not get run down also and hurt growth at 7, or are you assuming rutting isn’t as active after 5? Nothing is absolute but it appears where I hunt, with our herd dynamics that age 5 is an age when a good many of our bucks are finally physical enough to compete and confident enough to broadly expand their ranges during the rut and run themselves ragged going girl crazy. As they continue to age they seem to learn to settle into areas they can dominate well enough to satisfy their instinct to mate without as much need to travel. They also seem to learn to identify and spend more of their time with does they are more likely to score with as opposed to wasting energy harassing them all nonstop. I think that plays heavily into the fact that there are short windows where those nocturnal bucks are seen in daylight and then disappear.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502551
01/13/22 04:06 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
In South Texas, a lot 4 yr old bucks get really run down the worst in herds with great age structure. The 5 and 6 yr old bucks have set territories for the rut and defend them. 4 yr olds get pushed around and move trying to find their spot, they fight way more than most of the other age class it seems. The highest death losses/rut mortalities on some ranches will be in the 4 yr old age class. Many of them are pushed off of a ranch and get killed on neighboring properties. It is well known fact that most ranches in South Texas do not take their best bucks until age 7. That is the age when most are not rutting as hard and grow their best antlers. Little Roy Hindes told me once that any of their top 6 yr olds that went downhill at 7, they would then let go till 8. At 8 they bounced back and had their best antler growth year. On a larger ranch I managed in the Hill Country our best bucks were at 7(all native genetics to that ranch). The genetics on that ranch was slow to develop for some reason. Many bucks were mediocre/average hill country bucks at 4 or 5 would then be their best at 7 or 8. We tried to let our better bucks go till 7 to take them. The largest jump I was able to see on a buck was from 3 to 4 on that ranch. As a 3 yr old I was able to find one shed and he would have been around upper 150's as a 4x5 with one mule deer fork and kicker making him an 11pt. The next year he was a 5x5 with matching mule deer forks and I think he was easily in the low to mid 180's. They let him go to 7 and he dropped down from around 200 to 193 gross. 100% native Hill Country genetics. Most of the bucks went up about 5%-6% per year after age 2. A few bucks would do 10% from one year to the next.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8502552
01/13/22 04:07 AM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296
stxranchman
Obie Juan Kenobi
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Obie Juan Kenobi
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,296 |
Personally seen a buck gain almost thirty inches between 5 & 6. Seen the same between 6 & 7. Biggest I have ever heard evidence on is about 50. A lot has to come together to provide for these increases. Heck I saw a spike do 50 from 1-2 STX Yeah, when he scored 45 then jumped to 95 at two, you should have still killed him.
Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502555
01/13/22 04:13 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,088
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 9,088 |
Thanks Smokey. We have a 150ish buck we think is 5. He’s the most visible buck we have out of many 4s and up older than 5. He never stops, even after the rut. He’s a good looker too, so if he grows next year and doesn’t slow down we may not ever know what 7 would look like.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502787
01/13/22 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,977
Hudbone
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I know it almost sounds counter-intuitive, but we are seeing tis "rebound" effect also. Now that most of us on the place have taken nice trophies, it is easier to have patience and allow deer to get old. Somes never get nowheres and end up being mistakes which never should have been allowed. That's the tough part. Somes mature into special animals. Somes come from nowhere and end up the wall - like the double drop I shot this year. Sunofagun was old (at least 7 1/2), but no one knows which deer he was before this season
Getting where when I see a potential trophy for the first time, I am now realizing it might take two or three more seasons for him to reach full potential. Next year is not the way I see it any more.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Hudbone]
#8502815
01/13/22 03:07 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656 |
I know it almost sounds counter-intuitive, but we are seeing tis "rebound" effect also. Now that most of us on the place have taken nice trophies, it is easier to have patience and allow deer to get old. Somes never get nowheres and end up being mistakes which never should have been allowed. That's the tough part. Somes mature into special animals. Somes come from nowhere and end up the wall - like the double drop I shot this year. Sunofagun was old (at least 7 1/2), but no one knows which deer he was before this season
Getting where when I see a potential trophy for the first time, I am now realizing it might take two or three more seasons for him to reach full potential. Next year is not the way I see it any more. Wait so I was right on the age.... Who know I agree with you on the 2-3, but that's on heavy long term feed programs like yours
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8502821
01/13/22 03:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,977
Hudbone
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Wait so I was right on the age.... Who know A blind hog and acorns comes to mind.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Hudbone]
#8502835
01/13/22 03:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656 |
Wait so I was right on the age.... Who know A blind hog and acorns comes to mind. Well I'm pretty chubby right now, so it's becoming less of an anomaly, and more of core occurrence
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502842
01/13/22 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,977
Hudbone
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I think I was just wishing . . . .
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Hudbone]
#8502845
01/13/22 03:39 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656 |
I think I was just wishing . . . . I get it but still cool deer.
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: The_Whitetail_Kid]
#8502875
01/13/22 03:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,088
freerange
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Good comment about a long term heavy feed program making a difference in this year to year horn growth discussion. I think most would agree a well fed health buck will have a better chance of peak antlers at older ages.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: freerange]
#8502957
01/13/22 05:50 PM
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Joined: May 2017
Posts: 5,468
Smokey Bear
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Good comment about a long term heavy feed program making a difference in this year to year horn growth discussion. I think most would agree a well fed health buck will have a better chance of peak antlers at older ages. And often times the teeth of those deer on a long term heavy feed program will not indicate their true age.
Last edited by Smokey Bear; 01/13/22 05:59 PM.
Smokey Bear---Lone Star State.
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8502973
01/13/22 06:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,088
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 9,088 |
Good comment about a long term heavy feed program making a difference in this year to year horn growth discussion. I think most would agree a well fed health buck will have a better chance of peak antlers at older ages. And often times the teeth of those deer on a lot by term heavy feed program will not indicate their true age. I agree with that but I’ve about decided I don’t trust aging by tooth wear, or lab or any aging method. I rely more on history with the deer and just observing. To consistently get even within one year on any method is optimistic, IMO. No one ever knows for sure but it doesn’t keep us from trying(hard). But I really don’t want this thread to shoot off onto that.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Question about deer growth
[Re: Smokey Bear]
#8502990
01/13/22 06:34 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 61,656 |
Good comment about a long term heavy feed program making a difference in this year to year horn growth discussion. I think most would agree a well fed health buck will have a better chance of peak antlers at older ages. And often times the teeth of those deer on a long term heavy feed program will not indicate their true age. After mature it's always been a toss of dice, especially past 6.5. I personally don't think you can feed enough to effect teeth At whole herd level. Deer forage to much. With that said I think upper age deer tend to consume more due to teeth condition.
Bottom line, never trust a man whose uncle was eaten by cannibals.-Sen Joni Ernst
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