texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
LoneStarCigar, MH blkdog, LUKE22, Little L, WBRC
70569 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 110,643
bill oxner 91,416
SnakeWrangler 64,130
stxranchman 60,272
Gravytrain 46,950
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
BMD 41,241
Forum Statistics
Forums46
Topics616,092
Posts11,411,349
Members85,569
Most Online19,184
Feb 5th, 2020
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8484850 12/23/21 04:23 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,932
D
don k Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,932
The majority of hunting outfitters I know do not hunt their own land. They have deals with landowners and hunt those places. Myself and a friend did this full time for a few years back in the late 70's. We had deals with different landowners. Some for just WT and others that had both WT and exotics. Some had only one type of exotic. We hunted a place like that in Rocksprings that only had Blackbuck. Others like the Flying A in Bandera had numerous species. The Flying A also did their own hunting plus any outfitter that wanted could hunt there. It was owned by a very well off oil man that lived mostly in Houston. And like ranchman said at todays land prices I really don't see how a person could start from scratch and make a go of it. Unless making a profit was not the aim of it.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8484877 12/23/21 04:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,976
T
Texas buckeye Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,976
One thing to consider when considering a HF hunting operation is the property taxes and such become higher. The state may not give AG exemption for the whole property, even if you are running some cattle on some of it, if you are using it in a commercial hunting operation. That is a significant price to pay for land and would possibly take several hunts just to pay that price tag every year. I do not know the ins and outs of that issue, and it may not be an issue at all, just saying it is something else to consider.

Some good bits of wisdom from this thread. Almost a classic example of "if you are rich..." and that term "rich" is so very subjective....

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: Texas buckeye] #8484881 12/23/21 04:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,272
S
stxranchman Online Content
Obie Juan Kenobi
Online Content
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,272
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
One thing to consider when considering a HF hunting operation is the property taxes and such become higher. The state may not give AG exemption for the whole property, even if you are running some cattle on some of it, if you are using it in a commercial hunting operation. That is a significant price to pay for land and would possibly take several hunts just to pay that price tag every year. I do not know the ins and outs of that issue, and it may not be an issue at all, just saying it is something else to consider.

Some good bits of wisdom from this thread. Almost a classic example of "if you are rich..." and that term "rich" is so very subjective....

Please explain this red part to me. Never seen this or heard of it either.


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: stxranchman] #8484898 12/23/21 04:55 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,932
D
don k Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
D
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,932
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
One thing to consider when considering a HF hunting operation is the property taxes and such become higher. The state may not give AG exemption for the whole property, even if you are running some cattle on some of it, if you are using it in a commercial hunting operation. That is a significant price to pay for land and would possibly take several hunts just to pay that price tag every year. I do not know the ins and outs of that issue, and it may not be an issue at all, just saying it is something else to consider.

Some good bits of wisdom from this thread. Almost a classic example of "if you are rich..." and that term "rich" is so very subjective....

Please explain this red part to me. Never seen this or heard of it either.

Neither have I.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: stxranchman] #8484899 12/23/21 04:55 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,976
T
Texas buckeye Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,976
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
One thing to consider when considering a HF hunting operation is the property taxes and such become higher. The state may not give AG exemption for the whole property, even if you are running some cattle on some of it, if you are using it in a commercial hunting operation. That is a significant price to pay for land and would possibly take several hunts just to pay that price tag every year. I do not know the ins and outs of that issue, and it may not be an issue at all, just saying it is something else to consider.

Some good bits of wisdom from this thread. Almost a classic example of "if you are rich..." and that term "rich" is so very subjective....

Please explain this red part to me. Never seen this or heard of it either.


I should not have said higher, I should have said they might lose their ag exemption, so they become effectively higher than what was paid before.

I do not know if that is the case for most HF people as they use their places for cattle and have ag exemptions, but for someplace that runs strictly a hunting operation and has no true ag exemption, they may be SOL. I do not believe that the wildlife exemption in texas can be used if the place is being used as a commercial hunting operation. I may be wrong.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: don k] #8484907 12/23/21 05:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,980
T
txtrophy85 Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,980
Originally Posted by don k
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
One thing to consider when considering a HF hunting operation is the property taxes and such become higher. The state may not give AG exemption for the whole property, even if you are running some cattle on some of it, if you are using it in a commercial hunting operation. That is a significant price to pay for land and would possibly take several hunts just to pay that price tag every year. I do not know the ins and outs of that issue, and it may not be an issue at all, just saying it is something else to consider.

Some good bits of wisdom from this thread. Almost a classic example of "if you are rich..." and that term "rich" is so very subjective....

Please explain this red part to me. Never seen this or heard of it either.

Neither have I.


This is inaccurate.

State gives you the option to convert to wildlife exemption, or in the case of exotics, exotics are counted as livestock and falls under Ag.

Just because you are running a hunting operation doesent mean it disqualified the property from a Ag or Wildlife exemption


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: Texas buckeye] #8484909 12/23/21 05:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,272
S
stxranchman Online Content
Obie Juan Kenobi
Online Content
Obie Juan Kenobi
S
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 60,272
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
One thing to consider when considering a HF hunting operation is the property taxes and such become higher. The state may not give AG exemption for the whole property, even if you are running some cattle on some of it, if you are using it in a commercial hunting operation. That is a significant price to pay for land and would possibly take several hunts just to pay that price tag every year. I do not know the ins and outs of that issue, and it may not be an issue at all, just saying it is something else to consider.

Some good bits of wisdom from this thread. Almost a classic example of "if you are rich..." and that term "rich" is so very subjective....

Please explain this red part to me. Never seen this or heard of it either.


I should not have said higher, I should have said they might lose their ag exemption, so they become effectively higher than what was paid before.

I do not know if that is the case for most HF people as they use their places for cattle and have ag exemptions, but for someplace that runs strictly a hunting operation and has no true ag exemption, they may be SOL. I do not believe that the wildlife exemption in texas can be used if the place is being used as a commercial hunting operation. I may be wrong.

It can and does. If a cattle operation does not run cattle for a period of time they can loose their exemption also. No matter if it is farming, cattle, wildlife, etc you have a set of guidelines to follow to stay qualified. Loose that qualification and taxes will go up no matter what type of operation is on the land. Wildlife exemption has guidelines which must be followed, it does not matter what the operation is. The guidelines are the same, follow them and you get the exemption. That is why those with wildlife exemptions keep records of everything that is done on the land. That documentation is then turned over the county CAD office as proof for the exemption every year. Some counties have strict guidelines and some are a bit more lenient...they still have the same guidelines just not as strict on the amount to qualify. The taxes to the county are the same on Ag use vs. Wildlife Exemption. The recreational use is where the taxes escalate.


Are idiots multiplying faster than normal people?[Linked Image]
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8484914 12/23/21 05:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,976
T
Texas buckeye Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,976
As I mentioned in both posts, I may be wrong, it was just something that popped in my head as a consideration for anyone wanting to start out as a commercial hunting operation. I know Texas Property tax law is slightly weird and very strict. I am not even a novice on it at all, certainly didn't want to sound like an expert.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8484929 12/23/21 05:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,902
H
HornSlayer Offline
Pro Tracker
Offline
Pro Tracker
H
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,902
Just look at the number of high fence operations that end up on the Foreclosure lists. That should answer your question.


They make ammo specifically for hunting for a reason! nidea
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: HornSlayer] #8484955 12/23/21 05:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,980
T
txtrophy85 Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
T
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 29,980
Originally Posted by HornSlayer
Just look at the number of high fence operations that end up on the Foreclosure lists. That should answer your question.



In 14 years of Selling Ranches I can't remember 1 hunting operation that ended up on the "foreclosure list"


Alot don't make much money ( if any at all ) after its all said and done, but that really isn't the point, the investment is in the land.



For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8485190 12/23/21 11:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,883
B
Biscuit Online Shocked
THF Celebrity
Online Shocked
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,883
A lot of good info , thanks for sharing all

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8485236 12/23/21 11:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 128
3
3kcattle Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
3
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 128
Man, a good read, but y’all are hard! My place is in a drought, my grain is burning up, and I have plywood for my Mule roof. None of it works, HF, LF, whitetail, exotics, or cattle, if it won’t rain.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8485488 12/24/21 06:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
T
TxsDirtDad Offline OP
Light Foot
OP Offline
Light Foot
T
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 24
That’s an interesting point.

If you take Ag exempt land and change the use of part of it into a new shopping center, you’re subject to roll back taxes for several past years at what the non-exempt assessment would be on that portion where you changed the use. Ouch! there’s a several thousand percent tax increase on back taxes owed. Checking with your own County CAD to see if they’d ever consider disallowing your AG or Wildlife Management exemption, because you combined it with commercial game business use, is probably a very good idea.

I’ve read the TX law on Wildlife Management exemptions and beyond the 7 landowner approved actions, it is pretty darn vague in the actual details. I believe it also gives each county Chief Appraiser power to make the ultimate determinations on individual exemptions (how could that ever turn out bad?).

It is true each county can be very different in their scrutiny. I know of one county that requires an updated management plan yearly with on site inspection every three. An adjoining county just wants a copy of your plan on file and they’re good to go.

I think the safest approach here is don’t ever assume anything with government, take cookies or donuts when you ask the county staff complex questions, and have them acknowledge their advice in writing.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8485517 12/24/21 11:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22,605
Creekrunner Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 22,605
The ladies at the two counties (only 11 ac. in one) the ranch is in have all been very easy going regarding my wildlife valuation. One only wants a report every 2 years, the other every 3. I'm gonna go by each CAD office in Feb./Mar. and make sure of what and the way they want a report. I can flood them with info and pictures, but don't want to go to the effort for naught. And, I also don't want to "poke the bear", want to "let sleeping dogs lie", etc., etc. It's a fine line with county govt. folks.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8486726 12/26/21 12:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,225
F
freerange Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
Online Content
THF Trophy Hunter
F
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 6,225
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Most of 'em owners will talk about legitimizing their operations by talking about the need to sell hunts in order to pay for feed.


Most ranchers and farmers just tell you they are forever in a drought too…..or have to use plywood for utv roof

I have a buddy that’s expanded acreage three times, it’s not cost share, straight business. He doing well off it and doesn’t sell many hunts just raises high end exotic’s, traps and takes to sale.

Think it’s like any other business diversification tool, some investments you are good with 5% return others it better be 20% due to risk, but nonetheless, you didn’t get to be a landowner or pay for that fence via having a losing businesses

“Plywood for a utv roof”, sound idea. Maybe even a good idea for a Christmas gift.


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8486728 12/26/21 12:32 AM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 11,445
H
Hudbone Online Content
THF Celebrity
Online Content
THF Celebrity
H
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 11,445
Easy, easy . . . .

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8495970 01/05/22 11:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 429
E
Exiled Offline
Bird Dog
Offline
Bird Dog
E
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 429
Great discussion, folks! I think there's also a strong "land improvement" approach to these operations. Buy a 2K acre ranch that's been mostly used for cattle, high-fence it, invest in good facilities, habitat, water and some exotics, feed protein and improve the native WT herd. Over time, the value of that property is likely to increase disproportionately, and there are a LOT of tax advantages there. Sure, it requires a big investment, but it absolutely can pay off. My friend's uncle started doing this in the 80s, with a small property at first. Over the years he's sold and bought bigger ranches, continued to invest in improving them, and ended up retiring after selling his biggest one. He's got some great stories and did a LOT of hunting along the way. Not for everyone and I'm sure he could have done it faster investing in Apple stock back in the 80s, but he's a rancher and loves the land.

Also, depending on how well managed the property is (for habitat, carrying capacity, feed, hunting quotas, etc), it can yield profits over time.


"Who Dares, Wins"
Instagram: @HCConnected
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8495996 01/05/22 11:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 86
C
COFF (TFF) Offline
Outdoorsman
Offline
Outdoorsman
C
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 86
One other thing to think about is what sort of customers you intend to have, and what their expectations will be. IMO, the guy willing and able to pay $3500+ to shoot an exotic animal is probably going to come with a group, and they are not likely willing to sleep in a shack and eat beans and potted meat. So add the cost of a nice housing facility able to accommodate a group of about 8 or maybe more.

Then figure out how many $3500 hunts you would have to sell to break even. If that number is 10, then how big of a herd would you have to build up to be able to take out 10 bucks a year? And how many animals can your acreage support before you have to start supplementing the feed?

There are definitely commercial hunting outfits that are profitable. But it will take a tremendous amount of capital to get the facility where it would need to be.

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: COFF (TFF)] #8496005 01/05/22 11:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,883
B
Biscuit Online Shocked
THF Celebrity
Online Shocked
THF Celebrity
B
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 17,883
Originally Posted by COFF (TFF)
One other thing to think about is what sort of customers you intend to have, and what their expectations will be. IMO, the guy willing and able to pay $3500+ to shoot an exotic animal is probably going to come with a group, and they are not likely willing to sleep in a shack and eat beans and potted meat. So add the cost of a nice housing facility able to accommodate a group of about 8 or maybe more.

Then figure out how many $3500 hunts you would have to sell to break even. If that number is 10, then how big of a herd would you have to build up to be able to take out 10 bucks a year? And how many animals can your acreage support before you have to start supplementing the feed?

There are definitely commercial hunting outfits that are profitable. But it will take a tremendous amount of capital to get the facility where it would need to be.


Good info

Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8496073 01/06/22 12:41 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
T
therancher Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
T
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,179
I don’t have O&G money and I currently have two HF ranches totaling north of 2500 acres. Accumulated the land by flipping. Tax benefits are incredible (especially depreciating HF etc thst came with the place). Money is in exotics now. Cow kudu going for 35,000 plus, sable cows going for 45k +. Addax jumping to 8000 lately. Blesbok 9000 for females. When you’re selling trophies you have to wait several years to mature, the cows are worth their most at yearlings.

Hard to buy in at those prices but the payoff is huge if they drop girl calves. I don’t have to worm since my animals aren’t crowded. And feed costs are high because i feed protein for WT. i sell most of my exotics live and avoid the deer species since there is no trophy value in deer species females. Im making a pretty good living and I still owe some on both ranches. But i started slow and cheap.


Crotchety old bastidge
Re: Are high fence hunting ranches profitable? [Re: TxsDirtDad] #8496812 01/06/22 08:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,270
C
colt.45 Offline
THF Celebrity
Offline
THF Celebrity
C
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 13,270
stir things up a bit...

Whin a land owner say 300acres or so
tis HF in bye surronding land owners.
confused2 does that affect him/her
in any way ?
Maybe should have its own topic...
Just currious...
flag



i'm postaddic
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2022 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3