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Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
#8469340
12/08/21 02:59 AM
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SnakeWrangler
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Been gathering things to load black powder shells for a couple old shotguns…. 400 primers 550+ hulls 3 lbs of Pyrodex black powder equivalent 7000 3/4” cushion wads 6000 1/2” cushion wads 17 1/2 lbs of # 7 1/2 shot 25 lbs of #4 shot 100 lbs of #8 shot And all the necessary tools for hand loading… Hoping to load up a few practice/test shells this week and to be blowing smoke out of a couple old shotguns in a few days….
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8469415
12/08/21 05:04 AM
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LeonCarr
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Nice old school roll crimp tool...those work with paper hulls or plastic hulls.
"Whitetail Deer are extinct because of rifles with telescopes mounted on them." - My 11th Grade English Teacher
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: LeonCarr]
#8469519
12/08/21 12:44 PM
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Nice old school roll crimp tool...those work with paper hulls or plastic hulls.
The videos I’ve seen were rolling plastic. That’s my plan. I also have the star tool and be plan to try both…
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8469908
12/08/21 06:51 PM
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I’d say my first time out was a success… Loaded 4 regular 2 3/4” shells star crimped, cut 8 down to 2 1/4” for older short chamber shotguns. Star crimped four and roll crimped four. Had to play around with how much fiber wad to use to get the finished round right. Hope to “test” them here in a little bit… Made the tool to measure the hulls to cut down at 2 1/4” and a tool to pack the wads. Learned a lot today….a lot less intimidated than I was! Roll crimper worked great and fast…just a couple cranks and done. This is how I plan to go from now on for cut down shells. I will re-star crimp the regular 2 3/4” shells… The white stuff on the tops of all the shells is Elmer’s glue to seal them.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8470026
12/08/21 09:48 PM
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Scoutdog
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Are you using a nitro card over the powder followed by the fiber wad or just going straight with the fiber wad over the powder? I've done both ways but found that the nitro card gives a better seal and burn of the powder. The nitro card also will help prevent lube from the fiber wads coming in contact with the powder.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8470030
12/08/21 09:52 PM
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I’m using a 3/4” cardboard card I cut out over the powder and under the fiber cushion wad. I use the same cards over the shot. What is a nitro card made of? How is it different from what I’m doing?
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8470063
12/08/21 10:37 PM
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Scoutdog
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Nitro cards are thicker than the cardboard you are using. They are really stiff and do not flex like regular cardboard or fiber wads, thus providing for a better gas seal. I always assumed they were some type of super compressed cardboard, but the link below says this particular one is made of industrial board material. I don't remember if mine are the same one as I linked or I got them somewhere else. I just found the link to give you an idea of what they look like. https://www.ballisticproducts.com/125-Maxi-Nitro-Card-500_bag/productinfo/NC/
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8470077
12/08/21 10:58 PM
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Scoutdog
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If you add the nitro card, you will have to again play around with the fiber wad to get the desired crimp. The nitro card I linked is 1/8" thick.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Scoutdog]
#8470116
12/08/21 11:34 PM
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If you add the nitro card, you will have to again play around with the fiber wad to get the desired crimp. The nitro card I linked is 1/8" thick. Thanks! Going to order some nitro cards for the next round. The glue is dry on these….loaded from left to right. First round of shells are done and guns are ready. Just waiting for daylight to give it a go….
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8471136
12/10/21 12:42 AM
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SouthWestIron
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Really cool stuff! Love the lee hand loaders.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Scoutdog]
#8471142
12/10/21 12:55 AM
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If you add the nitro card, you will have to again play around with the fiber wad to get the desired crimp. The nitro card I linked is 1/8" thick. These are similar to the wads i have… I have 3/8” and 1/2” for 12 gauge with the wax seal. I got a box of 7000 of the 3/8” and a box of 6000 of the 1/2” for $20/box.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SouthWestIron]
#8471148
12/10/21 12:57 AM
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Really cool stuff! Love the lee hand loaders. I’m having loads of fun using it. Seriously, I’ve learned a lot and am enjoying it. Excited to shoot these old shotguns!
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8471372
12/10/21 04:54 AM
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Scoutdog
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I assumed you were using fiber cushion wads and not the wads you indicated. With the fiber cushion wads, you typically use a nitro card over the powder and before the fiber wad. The fiber wads allow for a compression when adjusting for your column height. I honestly have never used the wads you have – I didn’t know they made them that thick and maybe they didn’t when I bought all of my supplies eons ago.
Most of my loading for BP shells has been in brass cases (older Remington or newer Magtech). Those shells require oversized wads due to the thin brass compared to plastic hulls. If you shoot your shells at a range, prepare for an audience. The sound the BP shells make vs regular shells will turn heads along with the giant cloud of smoke.
What guns do you have pictured? Just be sure to give them a good cleaning as soon as you can. I use water or a water and Ballistol mix to get it clean and then follow up with a light wipe down with straight Ballistol.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Scoutdog]
#8472428
12/11/21 03:24 PM
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What guns do you have pictured?
The one on the left is a Remington model 1894 made in 1899 and the one on the right is a “Richard Belgium” estimated to be made somewhere between 1890 and 1900…. Got both from members of the THF. Hope to pick up a couple more before April.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8473931
12/13/21 02:25 AM
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Joined: Mar 2021
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Sharps4570
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How much did they run if I might ask. Thanks
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8474117
12/13/21 11:33 AM
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Got one in a trade so around $250-$300 and $300. Going to look at another one this week that’s $250.
Haven’t had a chance to shoot them yet….
Hoping maybe tomorrow…
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8475369
12/14/21 03:52 PM
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BOBO the Clown
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Roll some bismuth and let’s go duck hunting!!!
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8476747
12/15/21 07:22 PM
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8476748
12/15/21 07:23 PM
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Roll some bismuth and let’s go duck hunting!!! That would be fun….
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8478041
12/17/21 01:03 AM
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8478128
12/17/21 02:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Espy
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Dang that looks like some fun Snake
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Espy]
#8478146
12/17/21 03:23 AM
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Dang that looks like some fun Snake This is fun but the real fun will be in April when we’re using these old guns to “smoke” the clay course at Daves charity shoot…. Looking at one more old shotgun this weekend to round out the four I was hoping to pick up.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8478162
12/17/21 03:54 AM
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Scoutdog
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Be sure to check the chamber length in that old 16ga. Many of the older ones have short chambers and you may need to adjust your hull length.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Scoutdog]
#8478184
12/17/21 04:25 AM
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SnakeWrangler
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Be sure to check the chamber length in that old 16ga. Many of the older ones have short chambers and you may need to adjust your hull length. I’m cutting them all down to 2 1/4” just to be safe. Thanks!
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8478197
12/17/21 04:46 AM
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This is consistent with most of the information I’ve been finding for these old guns… This is seven years old. Current values based on my research are $50 wall hanger to $300+ for a really clean “shooter” guns without any serious defect. Not talking safe queen supper clean guns….these are shooters! I’ve literally looked at and looked up information on well over a hundred old shotguns. I’ve Learned a lot to still be this ignorant….. The information I posted above is why I’m only using light black powder or equivalent loads and cutting all the shell down to 2 1/4” That way they will be “safe” in any of the old guns regardless of chamber length or barrel steel.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8479020
12/18/21 12:26 AM
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dkershen
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Great thread Jes. Can't wait to see these old guys in action!!
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: dkershen]
#8479030
12/18/21 12:35 AM
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Great thread Jes. Can't wait to see these old guys in action!! Thanks Dave! I’m really looking forward to your shoot and already excited about shooting these old guys. I’m planning on loading up extra shells so other folks there can shoot them if they want to.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8479283
12/18/21 07:02 AM
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Dink Dodger
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Jes I'm sure I have some 16ga empties around here. Let me know if you want some
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Dink Dodger]
#8480845
12/20/21 12:10 AM
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SnakeWrangler
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Jes I'm sure I have some 16ga empties around here. Let me know if you want some Yesterday was a great day. Got to meet two members and further my addiction….. Thanks Dink! Was a pleasure meeting you! They will be put to use… Also met Kentucky Native and purchased a 1904 G grade Lefever in 12 gauge… Then today I picked up a couple more toys…
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8493695
01/03/22 05:11 AM
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SnakeWrangler
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8494577
01/04/22 04:36 AM
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Buzzsaw
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please wear your shooting glasses
SPACE FOR RENT
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8495222
01/04/22 11:33 PM
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Saddle Tramp
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Awesome, looks great. I just added to your first post not realizing it was from awhile back.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8498141
01/08/22 01:46 AM
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16g Lee Loader arrived today… Roll crimper should be here soon! These 1965 Christmas stamps were on the bottom of the box…I was born in 1965!
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8499508
01/09/22 10:32 PM
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Today I picked up a sweet little LC Smith 12 gauge with 30” Damascus barrels made in 1902 from an 83 year old man. It’s been in his safe for over 50 years! Can’t wait to shoot it! I now have five old shotguns made in 1905, 1904, 1902, 1899, & est. 1890. Two “modern steel” barrels, 2 with Damascus barrels, and 1 with twist barrels…four 12’s & a 16!
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8520096
02/02/22 12:15 PM
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kry226
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Man! The stories those shotguns could tell...
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8522714
02/04/22 04:21 PM
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8527346
02/09/22 03:04 PM
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I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8528845
02/11/22 06:19 AM
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Dink Dodger
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That's awesome Jes. Are you lubricating your cushion wads? I need to get on with my brass 410 project. I have everything, just need to punch out some overshot cards and get some free time.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: Dink Dodger]
#8528866
02/11/22 11:25 AM
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That's awesome Jes. Are you lubricating your cushion wads? I need to get on with my brass 410 project. I have everything, just need to punch out some overshot cards and get some free time. The 12 gauge plastic shells have prelubed wads. The 12 gauge brass (11 gauge wads) are dry. I’ve read mixed reviews about the necessity of using lubed wads vs dry. I’m going to shoot this first 90 next weekend then decide if I need to lube them for future shells. If I decide to lube them I plan to use 2 parts mutton tallow, 2 parts canning paraffin, 1 part bees wax as my lubricant.
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8529716
02/12/22 03:03 PM
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Dink Dodger
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[/quote] I’ve read mixed reviews about the necessity of using lubed wads vs dry. /quote]
Same here. My plan is to load 410 shells in 444 Marlin brass. At least one article said to apply 3 drops of 30w motor oil (.430 wads) and squeeze it with just your fingers then squeeze it again between two layers of paper towels, use a nitro card over the powder (smokeless in this case) then the lubed wad, an additional cushion wad if necessary for column height. I'm sure if I were to use them shortly after loading that would be fine but I'm concerned about the oil soaking into the nitro card over time and affecting the powder. Maybe I worry too much? I need to get some loaded and find a place to go test them out. I just think brass shotshells are cool.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8531068
02/14/22 05:33 AM
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Scoutdog
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Lubed wads help keep black powder fouling soft and minimizes the build up after multiple shots compared to dry wads.. It also makes cleanup easier. There are benefits to using them, but not required.
There's no reason to use lubed wads for smokeless powder though. The lube is for black powder fouling as noted above.
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
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Re: Black powder shotgun shells….the journey begins!
[Re: SnakeWrangler]
#8544699
03/01/22 02:48 PM
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BOBO the Clown
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Snake has officially define “labor of love”
Didn’t realize how laborious it was. Makes it even cooler!!
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Moderated by bigbob_ftw, CCBIRDDOGMAN, Chickenman, Derek, DeRico, Duck_Hunter, hetman, jeh7mmmag, JustWingem, kmon11, kry226, kwrhuntinglab, Payne, pertnear, rifleman, sig226fan (Rguns.com), Superduty, TreeBass, txcornhusker
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