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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #8425532 10/21/21 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by TLew
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There have been almost 7 billion vaccine doses given in the world and over 400 million in the US - all with no major risks shown above and beyond the normal incidence of side effects with any medication (even OTC meds like aspirin, ibuprofen, and acetomenaphine have side effects in some people under some conditions).

Yet many still say “it’s unproven”, “we don’t know”, blah, blah, blah. Every credible epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist in the world says it’s a no-brainer that these vaccines are both safe and effective because the most extensive proof in the world exists to back that up. (See above.)

All this despite the fact that every so-called conservative news outlet seeks to latch on to any real evidence that they are unsafe. They can’t, so they just make up chit and proffer idiotic crap that it’s obvious many of you latch onto. Just like you have the “election was stolen” crap, the “insurrectionists were Antifa or just tourists” crap, and about 99,000 other piles of crap. And then call others stupid and weak-minded. There are two approaches to the anti-vaccine movement: 1)just believing straight up BS conspiracy theories like the “tracking” nonsense or 2)wordsmithing misconstruing and/or overblowing potential side effects (or just making them up). In other words, just being bamboozled by a punch of crap from folks with an agenda who have probably been vaccinated themselves. Either way, it’s BS.

Again, the height of irony to see folks so weak-minded that they are willfully putting themselves, their families, and everyone else at risk call others out as somehow lacking.
So what if you’re low risk? If you’re not vaccinated, you’re keeping the disease vector moving forward. So while you may be low-risk, you may also be killing someone else. None of this is hard. Please get vaccinated.



Maybe you missed the past page of posts. I'd encourage you to re-read. There is a rational argument going on, but you're using selective reasoning. Would you take blood thinners if you didn't have high blood pressure, as an example?

That leads me back to the root of the issue -- do you feel that the risk profile for most people warrants a vaccine in the first place, or would you suggest that those resources, funds, and efforts should be focused on those with an actual risk? There will be outliers to the standard deviation risk profiles, but, as you say, those are normal for any other disease or medication.

ETA -- this virus is not the same as the 1918 flu, smallpox, bubonic plague, etc. where there was a risk across the full population. There is an obvious population that is impacted, and there is also some scatter into other areas at a much lower rate.


First, there is risk across the full spectrum. People are dying at all age cohorts. People are getting seriously ill at all age cohorts. Sure, many fewer at younger ages compared to older age groups, but still there is risk. How many dead young folks are acceptable vs. the almost imperceptible risk of the vaccine? In other words, how many deaths are cool just so folks can exercise their “rights” to not be vaccinated?

Also, see the point about keeping the disease alive which puts everyone at risk and needlessly hurts and kills others. And also gives time and space for new variants to emerge that may be more dangerous. And many other risks.

This disease is not exactly like any other disease but it’s a helluva lot more like them than just having the sniffles. 700,000 plus dead people prove that.

It’s not all about the individual all the time. We are a community. None of this is hard. Geez.

These threads are like people looking at a red dot and arguing about it it’s red or not. Of course it’s red, but if you surround the conversation with enough BS, about 25% of the people will finally decide it’s not red. Or that red is not even red. It’s a proven psychological phenomenon that the media uses to its advantage to manipulate folks.


Either you didn’t read a word I said, or you didn’t comprehend it. There is a very valid scientific theory supported by many world renowned virologists (and being proven by real time data) that the vaccines (being implemented now) is the worst thing you can do. Not that the vaccines are dangerous themselves.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425548 10/21/21 05:07 PM
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The guy who writes a novel on every post is accusing others of wordsmithing lol. Glad to know I'm "moving the disease vector forward", if it bothers you bleeding hearts I'm all for it.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #8425549 10/21/21 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There have been almost 7 billion vaccine doses given in the world and over 400 million in the US - all with no major risks shown above and beyond the normal incidence of side effects with any medication (even OTC meds like aspirin, ibuprofen, and acetomenaphine have side effects in some people under some conditions).

Yet many still say “it’s unproven”, “we don’t know”, blah, blah, blah. Every credible epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist in the world says it’s a no-brainer that these vaccines are both safe and effective because the most extensive proof in the world exists to back that up. (See above.)

All this despite the fact that every so-called conservative news outlet seeks to latch on to any real evidence that they are unsafe. They can’t, so they just make up chit and proffer idiotic crap that it’s obvious many of you latch onto. Just like you have the “election was stolen” crap, the “insurrectionists were Antifa or just tourists” crap, and about 99,000 other piles of crap. And then call others stupid and weak-minded. There are two approaches to the anti-vaccine movement: 1)just believing straight up BS conspiracy theories like the “tracking” nonsense or 2)wordsmithing misconstruing and/or overblowing potential side effects (or just making them up). In other words, just being bamboozled by a punch of crap from folks with an agenda who have probably been vaccinated themselves. Either way, it’s BS.

Again, the height of irony to see folks so weak-minded that they are willfully putting themselves, their families, and everyone else at risk call others out as somehow lacking.
So what if you’re low risk? If you’re not vaccinated, you’re keeping the disease vector moving forward. So while you may be low-risk, you may also be killing someone else. None of this is hard. Please get vaccinated.


loco

Real evidence of injury and deaths from the vaccine exist. You just choose to ignore it.

"Credible epidemiologist and infectious disease experts" that are in the pockets of big pharma say it is safe. Credible experts that are not in the pockets of big pharma say it is not safe, and is doing more harm than good.

A stolen election is proven with simple math.

There are photos of antifa arrests weeks and months prior, and the same people are photographed in the Capitol building.

The unvaccinated are putting no more people at risk of death than they ever have with flu and pneumonia. Fat people are unhealthy every day. Old people die every day.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425554 10/21/21 05:14 PM
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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Nogalus Prairie] #8425563 10/21/21 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
Originally Posted by TLew
Originally Posted by Nogalus Prairie
There have been almost 7 billion vaccine doses given in the world and over 400 million in the US - all with no major risks shown above and beyond the normal incidence of side effects with any medication (even OTC meds like aspirin, ibuprofen, and acetomenaphine have side effects in some people under some conditions).

Yet many still say “it’s unproven”, “we don’t know”, blah, blah, blah. Every credible epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist in the world says it’s a no-brainer that these vaccines are both safe and effective because the most extensive proof in the world exists to back that up. (See above.)

All this despite the fact that every so-called conservative news outlet seeks to latch on to any real evidence that they are unsafe. They can’t, so they just make up chit and proffer idiotic crap that it’s obvious many of you latch onto. Just like you have the “election was stolen” crap, the “insurrectionists were Antifa or just tourists” crap, and about 99,000 other piles of crap. And then call others stupid and weak-minded. There are two approaches to the anti-vaccine movement: 1)just believing straight up BS conspiracy theories like the “tracking” nonsense or 2)wordsmithing misconstruing and/or overblowing potential side effects (or just making them up). In other words, just being bamboozled by a punch of crap from folks with an agenda who have probably been vaccinated themselves. Either way, it’s BS.

Again, the height of irony to see folks so weak-minded that they are willfully putting themselves, their families, and everyone else at risk call others out as somehow lacking.
So what if you’re low risk? If you’re not vaccinated, you’re keeping the disease vector moving forward. So while you may be low-risk, you may also be killing someone else. None of this is hard. Please get vaccinated.



Maybe you missed the past page of posts. I'd encourage you to re-read. There is a rational argument going on, but you're using selective reasoning. Would you take blood thinners if you didn't have high blood pressure, as an example?

That leads me back to the root of the issue -- do you feel that the risk profile for most people warrants a vaccine in the first place, or would you suggest that those resources, funds, and efforts should be focused on those with an actual risk? There will be outliers to the standard deviation risk profiles, but, as you say, those are normal for any other disease or medication.

ETA -- this virus is not the same as the 1918 flu, smallpox, bubonic plague, etc. where there was a risk across the full population. There is an obvious population that is impacted, and there is also some scatter into other areas at a much lower rate.


First, there is risk across the full spectrum. People are dying at all age cohorts. People are getting seriously ill at all age cohorts. Sure, many fewer at younger ages compared to older age groups, but still there is risk. How many dead young folks are acceptable vs. the almost imperceptible risk of the vaccine? In other words, how many deaths are cool just so folks can exercise their “rights” to not be vaccinated?

Also, see the point about keeping the disease alive which puts everyone at risk and needlessly hurts and kills others. And also gives time and space for new variants to emerge that may be more dangerous. And many other risks.

This disease is not exactly like any other disease but it’s a helluva lot more like them than just having the sniffles. 700,000 plus dead people prove that.

It’s not all about the individual all the time. We are a community. None of this is hard. Geez.

These threads are like people looking at a red dot and arguing about it it’s red or not. Of course it’s red, but if you surround the conversation with enough BS, about 25% of the people will finally decide it’s not red. Or that red is not even red. It’s a proven psychological phenomenon that the media uses to its advantage to manipulate folks.


You didn't read and absorb what I said on the heels of therancher. That, or you are ignorant.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425565 10/21/21 05:24 PM
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He doesn't read or comprehend anything, he just wants to type out a 1700 word reply that will change absolutely nobody's opinion.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: BigfootWallace] #8425578 10/21/21 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BigfootWallace
He doesn't read or comprehend anything, he just wants to type out a 1700 word reply that will change absolutely nobody's opinion.

You forgot to add “with a bunch of cnn talking points riddled in there also” grin


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425583 10/21/21 05:41 PM
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Would the virus mutate to continue attacking people who have done nothing or would it find the need to mutate to be able to attack people who have artificially bolstered their immune system with the vaxx? Which would sound more plausible?

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425609 10/21/21 06:24 PM
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Any times NP posts you can use this simple formula:

Take what NP says / by 80 = close to the actual facts.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Hudbone] #8425640 10/21/21 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Would the virus mutate to continue attacking people who have done nothing or would it find the need to mutate to be able to attack people who have artificially bolstered their immune system with the vaxx? Which would sound more plausible?


I don’t think anyone can answer that with any confidence. Viruses mutate, this is overall a virus that kills very few it infects. So it would have served mankind much better to let our immune systems be the only defense it saw until we reached herd immunity. There would have still been mutations, but almost certainly much fewer. As it is we’ve set up multiple leaky vaccine barriers that offer multiple mutation training courses (of varying difficulty) for covid. It’s doing it’s best to survive at our expense. And if you believe the the Nobel laureate virologists, we are helping it survive with leaky vaccines applied at tue exact wrong time.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425666 10/21/21 07:25 PM
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So every sentence after the first is without confidence.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425684 10/21/21 07:36 PM
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My theory. It is a Chinese "bomb". once the people that take the vaccination has maxed out, and nobody else will take the shot the Chinese will come out with an updated version that will kill all of those that were not vaccinated. The Chinese knew that mandates would be put out by the Democrats, and some Republicans would refuse. The end result will be millions of dead, the country's political power bases will be destroyed, leaving and opening for the Chinese to invade. Most of the gunowners will be dead, there will be almot nothing to deal with, except the military which is under a mandate to get the vaccination.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8425697 10/21/21 07:47 PM
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if so, they have good planning.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: dogcatcher] #8425857 10/21/21 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
My theory. It is a Chinese "bomb". once the people that take the vaccination has maxed out, and nobody else will take the shot the Chinese will come out with an updated version that will kill all of those that were not vaccinated. The Chinese knew that mandates would be put out by the Democrats, and some Republicans would refuse. The end result will be millions of dead, the country's political power bases will be destroyed, leaving and opening for the Chinese to invade. Most of the gunowners will be dead, there will be almost nothing to deal with, except the military which is under a mandate to get the vaccination.

either way , millions dead . You see it in all their writings. Kill 80% of humans to a more controllable number. Heck they have been outwardly preaching it for the last 30-40 years . Its been a few years since their last culling of the herd. This time they will do a culling of the herd, economic reset (they are all currently calling on the reset). Only difference this time is they are keep their select few that will be docile transhumans. Humanity will be lost forever and the perverts , queers , and thieves will stay on top of the world forever. You can look at the hunger games for your predictive programming.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Hudbone] #8425860 10/21/21 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
if so, they have good planning.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8427233 10/23/21 06:09 AM
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I agree the problem's origins are highly suspect and probably well hidden. But I'm stuck at the start of the whole thing.

Other side- help me understand how you assign legitimacy to the messages from the various federal agencies, the personalities like Fauci, and especially the news media.
The pro-vax side seems to adhere confidently to the uniform messages that come from approved media, while the anti-vax side appears to be disorganized and sources multiple opinions from independent media, throwing in specific studies and data analysis from around the world as well.

I have honest trouble believing how, and understanding that, many well-spoken people claim to believe the approved media's message (meaning the non-cancelled/not demonetized outlets, those that are government supported, and corporate supported). I know many people are lazy and don't care to read too deeply, or can't stomach the terrifying idea of a lying media, or whatever. I'm talking about the strong supporters of the "vax". I find the approved media sources to be compromised by their very structure, even before we look at the data.

For example: "Payola". Drug companies pay for ad time everywhere there are ads, since a few years back, yes? Pfizer spent $2.4billion on ads in 2019, but only $1.8billion in 2020, perhaps seeing diminishing returns has they raked in many billions in profits as the covid arrangement began to pay off ($8.4 billion to shareholders last year, profits of $8.7billion as per some website). Total profits are a stunning figure, no doubt. I would expect that the windfall of pharmaceutical advertising coming to news outlets, online advertising, radio, etc., means that the centralized corporations that run media outlets are going to follow the scripts provided/approved by who pays them. Basically, If any outlet decides to go off-script and do their own journalism, they can be stripped of the massive drug company ad revenue. News media has become advertising.

What confidence do you have in journalistic integrity when workers whose jobs/families/reputations/future work all depend upon them following a script? Isn't this why it was once illegal to advertise this way in the first place? I will appreciate an honest attack on my ideas.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Jgraider] #8427243 10/23/21 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Jgraider
Any times NP posts you can use this simple formula:

Take what NP says / by 80 = close to the actual facts.



It's about 50/50 I think..


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Remo] #8427268 10/23/21 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Remo
I have honest trouble believing how, and understanding that, many well-spoken people claim to believe the approved media's message (meaning the non-cancelled/not demonetized outlets, those that are government supported, and corporate supported). I know many people are lazy and don't care to read too deeply, or can't stomach the terrifying idea of a lying media, or whatever. I'm talking about the strong supporters of the "vax". I find the approved media sources to be compromised by their very structure, even before we look at the data. .


Heed the above. Consider reading the chapter on Advertising in Noam Chomsky's "Requiem of the American Dream".

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8427768 10/23/21 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by Remo
I have honest trouble believing how, and understanding that, many well-spoken people claim to believe the approved media's message (meaning the non-cancelled/not demonetized outlets, those that are government supported, and corporate supported). I know many people are lazy and don't care to read too deeply, or can't stomach the terrifying idea of a lying media, or whatever. I'm talking about the strong supporters of the "vax". I find the approved media sources to be compromised by their very structure, even before we look at the data. .


Heed the above. Consider reading the chapter on Advertising in Noam Chomsky's "Requiem of the American Dream".


Mmmmmm...I can read Noam if he keeps his hands where I can see them at all times. I should look for that excerpt as I'm sure it's brilliant and true. I don't like reading him- I feel like he wields his linguistic genius like a broadsword too defensively, to intimidate enemies and impress the hot college doctoral candidates, but more likely I'm just not that smart. I'll keep Chomsky at arm's length so I don't wind up with a big anarchist tattoo, lol. I've got my little opinions about that guy. I think he got beat up too much in grade school and it didn't build his character. He's got a childish beef with the world of Men and competition that drags his huge brain off track. I got this from Powers and Prospects (something like that)- I've sort of steered around anything else but I can easily see him being spot-on about the impact of advertising as a way that the heartless capitalist countries control their populations. It is!

Nowadays, I'm back to idle. I don't read long into the mornings or gather documentation to try to disprove my personal theories. I'm rechecking the conclusions I finally reached about the covid thing by updating on new studies, clumsily deciphering research terminology and statistics, and cutting off the mistaken edges of my opinions. This whole thing is a shame.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8430073 10/26/21 05:32 AM
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Dangit, Noam. You've changed, dude.


Let them starve:

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8430076 10/26/21 05:40 AM
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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Remo] #8430147 10/26/21 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Remo
Dangit, Noam. You've changed, dude.


Let them starve:


Intellectual idiocy at its finest.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: Hudbone] #8430169 10/26/21 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by Remo
Dangit, Noam. You've changed, dude.


Let them starve:


Intellectual idiocy at its finest.


They live in this bubble, isolated from true reality.

Conservatives make the food. Conservatives haul the food. Conservatives have all the guns and ammo. I always find it no more than entertaining when liberals use the words "civil war". They know not what they ask for.


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Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8430173 10/26/21 12:38 PM
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You know what the vaccinated and the unvaccinated have in common?

Neither will ever be fully vaccinated.

Re: Why do people call it a “pandemic of the unvaccinated”? [Re: therancher] #8430193 10/26/21 12:53 PM
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You know what the vaccinated and the unvaccinated don't have in common?

The unvaxxed do not seem to wish ill will on those who are vaxxed.

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