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AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R #8390433 09/19/21 05:12 PM
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hi, newly joined the forum to post this, though i've enjoyed following it for a long time as a 'visitor'. i've been thinking of replacing my Armasight Apollo Pro 640 50mm clip-on with one of these. other than the noted differences in warranty, optical magnification and onboard GB, are there other issues/differences with product reliability, company reputation, ar mounts, batteries, controls, software, etc. that would make you prefer one to the other? or another scope entirely? (i left the rattler lrf model out to make them pretty similar.) any thoughts are much appreciated.

Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8390489 09/19/21 05:43 PM
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Until both scopes hit major circulation the only people able to answer your questions are dealer and pro staff who have had their hands on both.

If history is any indicator : the Bering Optics Hogsters and AGM 384 Rattlers both show well in the field and don’t have any architectural issues or operating concerns. This would lend to say the components that the companies selected are a good match and perform to expectation.

There is one wildcard to monitor : I’ve heard from the dealers and pro staffers that the 640 cores aren’t bringing top notch black hot to the table , unsure why or if there is anything that can be done to improve the black hot images .

So if any particular company can figure this out they’ll have an image characteristic leg up on the competition.

I assume your looking at the sub 5k 640 scopes from Bering / AGM / pulsar only in this question -
There are new scopes from nvision and trijicon that should give top notch performance
But may double the cost….


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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8390595 09/19/21 07:32 PM
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I've used both the soon to be released AGM Rattler TS50 640 2.5x and the Bering Optics Super Yoter 640 3x. I should point out that both of these scopes I've used are pre-pre-production demo units and there could be software changes or upgrades before they are released that could improve image quality, function etc. However, over the years, rarely have a I seen a final production scope change much at all from the demo.

I like both scopes a lot and think they both serve a purpose. The Super Yoter's increased magnification is somewhat noticeable and will do you good for longer range shooting. If you use the digital zoom, the first step up on the Yoter will be 6x vs 5x when the Rattler is doubled. I know these differences sound small but it can be significant in certain situations and it works both ways....sometimes the extra magnification is a good thing and sometimes it is a bad thing if you're shooting up close.

I believe they both have excellent image quality but I do believe the Yoter edges out the Rattler in sharpness and over image quality. On the other hand I believe the Rattler's black hot pallet looks better than the Yoter. The Yoter is using an Infiray/iRay thermal sensor and currently their 640 sensors are known to not look great in black hot.

I believe the best 640 image quality you can get under $6,800 right now is the Pulsar Thermion 2 XP50 2x mag for $5,000. This is $500 more than the Rattler and $400 more than the Yoter. I believe the Thermion 2 XP50 slightly edges out all the other competition up to the $6,000 price point. It is only 2x though and if you're doing most of your shooting over 100 yards, I'd highly suggest opting for a 3x model instead.

Feel free to give us a call anytime if you have more questions about any of these optics and how they perform, I've used them all side by side in the field and will be glad to help any way I can.


Jason


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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: Pig_Popper] #8390624 09/19/21 08:07 PM
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many thanks for the information. i'd noticed the black hot comments in some of the threads with the 12 micron vanadium sensors. the other scope i'd had on my narrowed down spreadsheet in fact was the pulsar thermion 2 xp 50 you mentioned!! i was leaning toward the agm or bering primarily because of the added recording features and weight difference. However, image means more to me than recording, and most of my shooting for this setup will be within 100-200 yards, so if the image is superior side by side i may go that way. who makes their sensor, which looks to be a 17 but with a netd under 25, which is remarkable? they're all f 1.0, so is that low number the reason the image is slightly better? and would that be true then at any humidity level?

Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8392598 09/21/21 01:35 PM
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here's an interesting u.k. thread related to netd numbers, sensor manufacturers and effect of f stop and sensor pitch on image at distance. also some perspective on pulsar marketing. it seems to indicate that image resolution/target i.d. increases as a function of pixel size decreasing and lens diameter increasing, with the lowering of the system netd not affecting that, but only increasing sensitivity to slight variations in temperature. the netd of the system is the sensor netd times the square of the lens' f stop, so in the case of the thermion 2 if the 17micron sensor has a lower netd of 25 and the 50 mm lens is a f 1.0, the system is 25x1x1 or 25. the thermion 1 has a 17 micron sensor which is 40 netd but with the f 1.2 lens the system is netd 57.6 (they market only the sensor 40) (17x 1.2 squared) but there is no effect of increasing resolution. had they gone to the 12 micron sensor as they put in the krypton fxg50 the resolution would have been better as well as the system netd number they highlight. so the marketing is a little misleading for real life improvement. i guess they're saving that 12 micron sensor for the next iteration of the thermion! anyway, interesting thread, and all this likely leads me back to the agm or the bering. the super yoter comes with a larue mount; what is the agm mount and which is better? also, not that i need the lrf, but is the battery change from the basic rattler better for some reason? and anything else to consider? thanks.

https://www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk/threads/new-thermion-2-announced.208703/

Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8392611 09/21/21 01:41 PM
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Well the toolless adjustment LaRue mount is outstanding. That I can tell you from personal use. Pig_Popper did replicability tests and it was solid.




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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8392872 09/21/21 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Well the toolless adjustment LaRue mount is outstanding. That I can tell you from personal use. Pig_Popper did replicability tests and it was solid.


I agree. Anyone who talks bad about LaRue or American Defense Mounts needs their head checked.lol Both are super solid and return to zero.


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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: Outdoor Legacy] #8393089 09/21/21 07:57 PM
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i've read that the yoter comes pre-glued on the larue mount, but i can't find any information on the mount that comes with the agm or whether it comes pre-assembled. anyone know?

Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8393122 09/21/21 08:31 PM
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The Bering Mounts do have epoxy under them and cannot be removed by the end user, they must be removed by Bering.

AGM includes an American Defense mount that is pre-attached by removable by the end user. There are no other mounts available for the Rattlers, so the only reason to take it off would just be if you were going to use it solely as a handheld and didn't need the mount.

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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: Outdoor Legacy] #8393452 09/22/21 01:42 AM
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thanks. so once zeroed both are equally reliably likely to return to zero if only taken off the rail but just unmounted and remounted as a unit?

Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8393978 09/22/21 04:26 PM
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I'm not 100% sure I understand the question but if you just take the scope off the rifle and put it back on, in the exact same picatinny slot it was zeroed in, you should have no problem at all with it holding zero with either the LaRue or the American Defense mount.


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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: Outdoor Legacy] #8394025 09/22/21 05:08 PM
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lol. sorry, question was poorly written! thanks, question answered!

Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: lazyeye] #8394321 09/22/21 09:58 PM
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Where RTZ fails most often is when the shooter does something wrong, like not get the scope back in the exact position or changes the tension adjustment.

I am a huge fan of TRUST but VERIFY. I have seen several hunts ruined by shooter who removed and replaced optics but did not verify zero before hunting.


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Re: AGM RATTLER TS50-640 VS. BERING SUPER YOTER R [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8394536 09/23/21 02:04 AM
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totally agree. i once switched a day scope and did a quick ck at 25 yds and extrapoated for distance that morning. shot high over antelope all day, my friend watching then shot my gun aiming way low and bagged one. next morning i did a proper zero for 200 at 100 yds and got two that afternoon. trust but verify. not just hunting/shooting; govt should have learned/remembered that later than reagan said it.

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