It really does not matter where you are in the state, the 13" AR rules are the same. They were started for various reasons in the counties that have them. There are pockets in every county that have good deer that did not need AR's...but the rest of the county may have wanted or needed them. Some started local WMA that led to county wide WMA's. I was in a county that was a transitional habitat from Post Oak Savanahs to the northern parts of the county to Coastal Prairies in the south and east part to South Texas habitats in the west. The counties in "South Texas" that are in AR's are closer to San Antonio...those counties are mainly subdivided small acreage tracts now. I lived in Colorado County and the uproar when they went to AR's was huge. The locals were divided on their like or dislike of the AR's years ago before I lived there. I lived there from 2006 to 2012. By 2008 or so you could not find anyone who disliked the AR's in that county. Same in the adjoining counties.

Always educational STX.

I went to public meetings in both Houston and Nacogdoches counties before ARs were adopted. Contrary to what many might think, the vast majority in attendance were strongly in favor of them. I haven’t personally met anyone in either county that is not grateful they are in place.

I know a few are, but it’s not many.

I first started running cameras back when they were film (late 90’s) and have pictures for almost every year since.

Prior to 2009 (first year of AR in Wise County) 130 inch deer were common with an occasional “monster” in the 155-170 range (neighbor killed a 172 around 2004 and another killed one over 170 in 2018). The last buck I had on camera that would score over 140 was 5-7 years ago.

I’m not going to go to the trouble of digging through all those pics to show my proof as the point of this thread was to see if others had similar experiences. I assumed I was in the minority and based on the responses so far it appears that is the case.

Double edged sword.

Many deer have survived to achieve much better potential than they otherwise may have before this was implemented.

Many deer have also been allowed to breed inferior genetics as a result of this as well.

We knocked a lot of the latter issue out of the discussion several years ago via MLD. That was lost due to a disruption with wind turbine construction and it is slowly creeping back. I am hopeful we can convince the lease manager to get that back up and running before the tide turns.

We see much better antlers in Franklin County. Like the AR law.

I had a lease for a number of years in Erath County. The genetics were poor, most bucks seen were culls. After the AR's started, we started to see some quality bucks. I think the AR's made a positive difference. I am now on a lease in Mills County. We are not MLD. The ranch is overrun with doe, and deer in general. I saw numerous 8 point basket racks, last season. In this setting, I don't think the AR's are needed. I think the AR's help more in areas with high hunting pressure.

I do see better antlers in Colorado Co. than before, but also the knot-heads that need to be removed are still there as well, and will be with AR, so you can find those who are unhappy or dislike the ARs as they currently stand. Born there, still there.

So. . . The thing I've never really understood, is why
people worry so much about what other people admire
about a deer and what they use to kill it with

I have hunted the big thicket national park every year since it started,not so much now due to my slightly advanced age and sore knees,but my buddy and I still make two or three days every year in the big sandy unit in Polk county.now I am not any kind of expert but we’ve taken several good bucks over the years and for sure the the bucks have gotten better over the last 5 or 6 years,we’ve seen more mature deer with bigger heavier antlers than we’ve ever seen, and I’m convinced it’s due to the AR . I’m not a trophy hunter but it’s great to have the opportunity to take a good buck

Well, I AM SURE that there is more hunting pressure. Old neighbors to the South East sold property. They were not hunters, but new neighbors are. Neighbor to direct south is not a hunter, but now lets a family member hunt there. Neighbor to the north used to not hunt. Sold property and new owners put up a stand right on our fenceline. Not only are they hunters, but they are fenceline hunters.

The thing that bothers me on the AR reg is having to sit in the stand and tell a 10 year old he can't shoot a buck that would be a huge trophy for him and his first buck because he's not wide enough. Trying to get a kid hooked on hunting is hard enough nowadays, but when they make 3 or 4 hunts and have to watch nice bucks they can't shoot for their first deer, I don't blame them for not wanting to go back. Just wish there was at least an age exception.

I didnt really focus of reading all of this real close, but my 2cents.
Im pretty sure the reason AR was put in place was solely to keep younger bucks from getting killed. There was never any INTENT to help or harm the future genetics. The assumption(USUALLY correct) was that real narrow bucks were young. I think that GENERALLY counties were picked that were felt to not have hunters and lease groups in place with the proper management mindset to be able to manage the age structure otherwise. This lack of a management mindset may mostly be due to smaller landholdings where even if a hunter wants to manage for age, he simply doesnt cause he thinks his neighbor will kill what he doesnt. The painting on an entire county, or Region, with the same brush is partly helped with MLD for those that choose. Im not going to say that its a good idea or bad but I think that is the WHY of why it was done.
As an aside, when they started the program, I think they expected so much backlash, that they threw in the ability to kill a spike just to appease hunters.
In most of the State that is known to manage more for Trophies there isnt the need for AR because guys(as a rule) make kill decisions on age estimates and dont need other means. At least this is the thinking of the decision makers.
It seems that most(not all) agree that it has been a big help. The only thing I can suggest to those that dont like the rule is to try and hunt elsewhere. I dont mean that to sound bad and I know that may not be practical, but I think its just the only alternative.

Born and raised near your place, hunted Wise and Jack counties hard my entire life. My perception and experience has been the exact opposite. I see more quality deer now than ever before and see more big deer harvested.


Deer populations continue to rise as you referenced, it could be a carrying capacity problem. There are cattle and goats on nearby property limiting forage and neighborhoods being built.

My son got hooked on hunting hogs and small game before ever shooting a deer. If your trying to get a kid hooked on hunting by sitting in a stand for hours waiting on a deer many will lose interest especially under 10 yrs of age.

There SHOULD be an exception for young kids.
They should be able to shoot the first thing they see

Trophies and "good " deer are subject to individual
interpretation. A trophy and a "good " deer to many
is a big rack to mount and brag about and hang on
the office wall and post on farcebook.
A " good " deer to me is one that was too heavy to
move easily by myself and made me need more
freezer bags than I had on hand. Sometimes it can
mean one I could have nearly killed with my eyes closed

I have seen good improvements in the deer here in Jack county since AR’s. Last year, I saw more 18” inside spread deer than I did 13” ans under, I have watched it slowly work. I also have some land in Young County, ans the results have been similar, maybe not quite as good as Jack. I am out and about every day in the County, and see lots of deer. I saw some great prospects this morning.

Seriously wish they would let kids under 14 kill whatever they want to though,

They should be able to. Anything that walks.
From a white spotter with milk on its chin on
up to a full blown bullwinkle

I don't know the real data before and after AR. P&W should release as much info as possible. For me, as I remember before AR all bucks that had even a small rack got killed. Does were also over harvested...leaving a small herd. We have a high density of hunters causing a shortage of does. We had to fight to get P&W to cut down on permits. They did and the results now are we have a deer density of about 8 and a ratio of 1.3. To me this is great numbers, however we also are getting too many bucks with narrow racks, young and old. We are also taking bucks with nice racks and great weights. We need to be able to legally remove some of the narrow racks. Small acreage leases can not manage..unless all get together and agree on a plan. Still almost impossible.

Food for thought... in 2004 and 2018 we had flooding in my area. Good chance these outliers can be explained.

I think the increase in number of sub 13 inch deer spottings is just because for once they exist and are not shot before the finish nursing on their momma. My brother and I each bought small tracts to live on in an AR county. Many people hunt in the area. Ive gotten pictures of deer in the 150's and my brothers neighbor has shot some well into the 160's. With the land segmentation and hunting pressure I dont think those deer would ever have a chance of getting where they were without AR's. They keep people from killing all the deer. I do not buy into the belief that the AR's are breeding only narrow rack deer.

Hunted in a few counties north and west of college station when I was in college and from everyone I talked to AR's were not welcomed at first but really made a difference.

X2 on what sapper said. I dont personally think kids are too concerned with what they shoot. Shoot a spike, shoot a doe, they will not care. Does are available to shoot in youth season in my AR county.

Quite often I find myself agreeing with RedChevy.

I read your post after I made mine. I could have said the same about yours