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Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: J Hills] #8299746 06/20/21 12:04 PM
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When primarily eating bunnies & rodents, a couple of fawns can account for a feast.

Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: J Hills] #8299770 06/20/21 01:08 PM
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When the deer where I hunt see a coyote, they take off. I have been deer hunting since 1966 (50+years) and have not witnessed a deer being chased or caught by a coyote or bob cat. I also have counted fawns for 10 plus years which takes me 5 months to do and I have never witnessed a coyote or bobcat chasing a fawn. Now, that doesn't mean they don't chase fawns...just means ...I spend every day for five months with the fawns and monitoring them with trail cameras. I generally end up after five months with about the same fawns that I started with. Yes, coyotes and bobcats will eat dead fawns and anything else dead. For years I have been told how coyotes can destroy a deer herd..It's just that I personally have not witnessed a kill...nor do my numbers dictate a large fawn loss due to varmints. We have a large amount of rabbits and birds for easy prey meals. The deer we loose are mostly attributed to lead poisoning and a hunter.lol So....I can't take a position that dictates coyotes kill live fawns that causes a large loss. I am still young(76 years) so I may see a coyote chase and kill a fawn some day but they better hurry up as the years are passing fast.lol We try to kill all coyotes we see but we have quite a few if I go by all the noise I hear in the mornings.lol

Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: J Hills] #8299798 06/20/21 01:45 PM
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Does will carry and typically deliver twins. If times are good, she can raise both. If not, she'll drop one and once that fawn expires, the smell of protein deterioration will make its presence known. Easy to find and easy to take back to a litter.

Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: J Hills] #8312096 07/04/21 01:44 PM
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The wife and I caught a show last night on PBS that spoke to the beauty and wildlife in the Rockies. It noted how despite having virtually no smell, a fawn's success in not being eaten by bears depends greatly on it's ability to remain out of sight. It only makes sense the same would be true of coyotes and other predators that can easily chase them down.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 07/04/21 01:45 PM.

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Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: Hudbone] #8312710 07/05/21 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Does will carry and typically deliver twins. If times are good, she can raise both. If not, she'll drop one and once that fawn expires, the smell of protein deterioration will make its presence known. Easy to find and easy to take back to a litter.

Actually, carrying triplets is not uncommon and actually at times is more common than realized. A single doe raising triplets in South Texas is rare in normal years. Above average rainfall in the correct months and triplets will be seen. I think I have seen a doe with triplets in deer season less than 5 times in my life. IIRC, back in the 80's CKWRI did a study on a very large ranch in La Salle County. There were several different studies done involving radio collars, habitat work, supplemental feeding, foot plots, etc. The habitat work involved brush chopping/rolling and soil disturbance work in different pastures. The brush work was done by dragging a large piece of railroad rail steel beam behind a dozer on this ranch. So they were dragging/breaking the brush down to ground level. IIRC the plan was to do 20% of the pasture each year for 5 yrs till they were done. Then in year 6, start over on the first 20% portion to study the effects it would have. The deer density was low to within CC on this pasture and ranch to begin with. Although after the first year and 20% brush work, they shot 5 does to check body condition and health. All 5 does were in great shape and all bred. Of the 5 does, 3 were carrying triplets and the other 2 carrying twins. The habitat had responded well to the work on it even at the start of a really dry period. The second year they did another 20% of the pasture right next to the first years work. So they now had 40% of the pasture/habitat work done. The deer population was trending upward. The third year they did another 20% right next to the previous years work. The deer numbers continued to trend upwards even though they were 3 yrs into a drought. After the 3rd year things changed. With the 3 yr+ drought, the habitat/brush was not growing back like they had anticipated. Going from low to medium height canopy in the 60% area of work to very short low brush habitat in that 60%. The deer numbers now started to reverse the upswing trend to now a severe downward trend. They stopped the brush work when it was not growing back as rapidly as expected. They were not really sure what or why things happened since they stopped the study on the ranch. They felt like it could be a combo of several things. They felt like the lack of rainfall was a major part of the issue, that the poor quality soil was part of the issue, that they had now taken a medium to very dense brush cover pasture(3800 acres in size) to a low brush area of now about 2000 acres was part of the issue, continued cattle grazing(lease with high stocker numbers) was part of the issue and the lack of good deer habitat was part of the problem. They were not sure if the drought and/or predator population had contributed to the decline or that something they had done contributed to the increase then the decline.


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Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: J Hills] #8312717 07/05/21 12:40 PM
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"They were not sure if the drought and/or predator population had contributed to the decline or that something they had done contributed to the increase then the decline." Something akin to getting past CC and resulting dry conditions bringing a natural die off or lower fawn recruitment?

Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: Hudbone] #8312758 07/05/21 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
"They were not sure if the drought and/or predator population had contributed to the decline or that something they had done contributed to the increase then the decline." Something akin to getting past CC and resulting dry conditions bringing a natural die off or lower fawn recruitment?

They had ideas but not sure what or why it happened since they stopped the study/research. I am thinking that they had thought that they could increase CC. I think they felt by bringing the canopy down to lower level they would increase the nutrition and availability of it to the deer. I think they felt that soil stimulation would increase forb/grass growth for all the wildlife. The long period with the lack of rain and brush response was not expected. That whole ranch was not the best soils either. It was not the most diverse mix of brush either. Surface water was not very well distributed and lacking in most instances. Well water was even rarer being that wells were 4000' or more deep. Their short research found that the deer ate a lot of prickly pear. Bucks especially ate a lot of pear in the post rut period from Feb into March and then again late summer in August. Prickly pear was as much as 45% of all the deer diet in those months. What I found out down there was that deer ate a lot of pear apples(tunas) and mesquite beans in the late spring, summer and into fall. I think with the brush work they had taken the mesquites and pear down to ground level, then they lack of rain caused the very slow rebound. So they lost that mast portion of the diet. I have watched deer eat prickly pear down when we had just gotten 10"+ of rain in a month period no matter the month. What one ranch down there found out is that all the water had a very high salt content. They had 90% of the ranch covered with surface tank/pond water only. They had very few water troughs and those few were along fence line pasture edges or roads. After they tested the water they found all the tanks were very high in salt content, even the deepest and largest ones at to high of salt levels for animals. They tested all the stock tanks, well water and creek water to find the higher than normal salt content widespread. They felt it was limiting forage consumption in the drier months. IMO, I think that high salt content surface water had caused the deer over many years to now rely on and eat more prickly pear as source for water IMO. The deer could still get a lot of water needs from brush in good years. I think the combo of the lack of and quality of the prickly pear/brush after the brush work and drought had cause the deer numbers to drop off. The lack of fresh drinking water was also a very strong concern I think. Just my opinion. Back when they ran high stocker cattle numbers and grazed heavily they had a pretty a limited watering system working off of two water wells. They had long runs of plastic water lines and water troughs along the few main roads. Every one of these troughs had a 2' tall minimum water trough every mile or so along the pipeline. Each pasture had water troughs but the livestock/game had to travel long distances to them. IMO the lack of rain, lack of well/tank water, the lack of browse/forb growth, fawning cover and the troughs being to tall for most younger animals to drink from had contributed to the deer decline problems. Fawns were being born and raised to an age that when taken to water they were not able to drink due to trough height and then along with the high concentration of predators at water were the major issues. Even for adult animals at the limited water locations the concentrations of predators were a major issue. Then throw in that large numbers of cattle were loafing around the water troughs that kept the deer away from the troughs, the deer/wildlife numbers suffered. This same ranch today now has widespread and elaborate watering system using water troughs. They have done aeration/roller chopping, prescribed burning, sprayed cactus, yearly predator control, removed 99%+ of the wild hogs and no cattle grazing. The one thing the ranch can not change is the soil type. The deer numbers at much higher density today than 35 yrs ago and the habitat is in much better condition. The overall deer herd health and quality is nothing short of amazing.
Deer numbers can vary so much in the same county or even in the same area of a county due to many factors. It usually not one single issue( i.e. predators) that lead to a decline or rise in the population, but IMO it is a mix of many issues. Most of the issues are manmade. Some of the issues we can control/change/improve and others we can't.


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Re: Lost a Fawn Yesterday [Re: J Hills] #8312798 07/05/21 02:16 PM
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