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HogStop Approved #8284169 06/03/21 10:07 PM
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Dalroo Offline OP
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Sorry if this has been posted - did a search and review and could not find...time will tell if this has any impact, but it is interesting.

https://www.texasagriculture.gov/Ne...NOUNCES-NEW-PRODUCT-IN-FIGHT-AGAINS.aspx

https://hogstop.com/


Dalroo
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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284170 06/03/21 10:07 PM
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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284205 06/03/21 10:49 PM
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bang what will it do ta other animal's (deer) ?
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i'm postaddic
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: colt.45] #8284273 06/04/21 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by colt.45
bang what will it do ta other animal's (deer) ?
flag



From their site:


"Can other animals be affected by HogStop?
Mono-gastric and ruminant animals such as deer, raccoons, sheep, and goats may be affected by a reduction in fertility, if eaten in large quantities. To avoid nontarget animal effects, we recommend hog-specific feeders that work to keep out all other animal types."


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284309 06/04/21 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dalroo
Sorry if this has been posted - did a search and review and could not find...time will tell if this has any impact, but it is interesting.

https://www.texasagriculture.gov/Ne...NOUNCES-NEW-PRODUCT-IN-FIGHT-AGAINS.aspx

https://hogstop.com/


That Sid Miller is excited about it...is enough to give me pause. He has tried to champion everything that has come down the pike so far and in some cases tried to ram rod some through it appeared.

I'd like to know a LOT more about the product and testing. Because I certainly don't trust those who have been involved in earlier ventures.


https://www.texastribune.org/2017/0...says-hog-poison-restrictions-not-doable/


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284362 06/04/21 02:13 AM
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It will be interesting to see how TPW reacts to the introduction of a hog solution that has the potential to significantly reduce the state’s deer population.

Based on the Texas tribune article Miller shouldn’t be trusted to make any important decisions!

Last edited by Pappybear; 06/04/21 02:30 AM.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: flintknapper] #8284395 06/04/21 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by colt.45
bang what will it do ta other animal's (deer) ?
flag



From their site:


"Can other animals be affected by HogStop?
Mono-gastric and ruminant animals such as deer, raccoons, sheep, and goats may be affected by a reduction in fertility, if eaten in large quantities. To avoid nontarget animal effects, we recommend hog-specific feeders that work to keep out all other animal types."




scratch That's kinda the opposite of what hunters do...
Kinda sounds like in a hog trap, confused2 what they suggest, catch & release ?

2cents still say , land owners working with hunters...
All the high-tech, i used trail cams ta monitor.For night hunts had AR-15 set up mildot scope over/green laser under.
Zeroed for close shots, had feeder, foodplot by creek, (hogs followed it), with cellular lights on right side & in open field
had feeder & small food plot by oak tree... 20-30yrd shots. Set up worked great @ OSBWMA close incounters...

Best wish's...
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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284527 06/04/21 12:06 PM
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Man, I dunno.

It seems to me to be very effective, it would have to have VERY widespread distribution.

The reason I say that is that it targets the boar, making it sterile...

Okay.

So what about the sow? The sow will still continue to come into heat because she's not impregnated.

We all know that boars can roam quite a distance looking for sows in heat. So the guy two ranches down isn't using it...

It seems those boars are gonna roam and impregnate sows in heat?

I sure don't have all the answers, and while I know they need to find something that's effective, I'm just not sure that this is it.

Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284627 06/04/21 02:00 PM
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^^THIS^^

I had the same thoughts after reading the article. It seems interesting and at least it is something, but sounds like it would be best suited for LARGE ranches or HF places. On a very large ranch, the managers could bait at the perimeters to catch local boars and those traveling through from neighboring properties, which over time could make an impact. Combined with aggressive hunting/trapping the overall numbers MIGHT be reduced. On HF ranches the population could be reduced in a similar fashion.

Flipside, for those of us on smaller LF properties, unless everyone in the area is on board and baiting, not much chance that it would make much impact. It would just take a handful of roaming boars to negate the entire effort.

At some point someone will come up with something meaningful and lasting...


Dalroo
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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284647 06/04/21 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalroo
^^THIS^^

I had the same thoughts after reading the article. It seems interesting and at least it is something, but sounds like it would be best suited for LARGE ranches or HF places. On a very large ranch, the managers could bait at the perimeters to catch local boars and those traveling through from neighboring properties, which over time could make an impact. Combined with aggressive hunting/trapping the overall numbers MIGHT be reduced. On HF ranches the population could be reduced in a similar fashion.

Flipside, for those of us on smaller LF properties, unless everyone in the area is on board and baiting, not much chance that it would make much impact. It would just take a handful of roaming boars to negate the entire effort.

At some point someone will come up with something meaningful and lasting...


^^^^

It's called a 'bounty'. Which would bring with it....its own set of problems... but I'd wager would put a big dent in the population wherever implemented.


Spartans ask not...how many, but where!
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: flintknapper] #8284720 06/04/21 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
It's called a 'bounty'. Which would bring with it....its own set of problems... but I'd wager would put a big dent in the population wherever implemented.


Yeah, I somewhat agree. The problem with this is that it requires taxpayer money whereas the Hogstop will probably need to be purchased by the individual landowner. Bounties have been used in a few counties around me, but typically they run out of money less than halfway through the year.

Several years ago Lee County had a $5 bounty on hogs. We'd cut off the tails, bag 'em, & leave them in a freezer. When there were enough to make it worth the trip to turn them in one of the neighbors would take them down and claim the bounty. We let her keep the money. We don't kill a ton of hogs so it wasn't all that much. Beer money, basically.

However, some guys that worked at a local feed lot set up traps and made more money on the hog bounty than they earned as wages. None of the counties around here have offered bounties in recent years though, it's just too expensive.


You can never have too much ammo � unless you're swimming.
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: flintknapper] #8284762 06/04/21 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by colt.45
bang what will it do ta other animal's (deer) ?
flag



From their site:


"Can other animals be affected by HogStop?
Mono-gastric and ruminant animals such as deer, raccoons, sheep, and goats may be affected by a reduction in fertility, if eaten in large quantities. To avoid nontarget animal effects, we recommend hog-specific feeders that work to keep out all other animal types."


That is where the warfarin failed miserably. Hogs are not fastidious eaters. Other animals died because hog-specific feeders were not hog specific. Imagine that.

Did y'all catch the embellishments made by Miller to make the feral hog problem sound worse than it is? This drives me nuts. Hogs are already a huge problem, but he is going to stretch the truth to make it sound like more of a problem than it is...

Quote
An all-natural contraceptive bait, HogStop targets the male hog’s prodigious ability to reproduce. Feral hogs have the highest reproduction rate of any similar species and can produce a new litter every three months or so and can produce litters of up to 20.


Feral hogs can produce a new new litter in about 3 months, 3 weeks, and 3 days, or about every 114 days, or about every 4 months...CAN, meaning it is biologically possible. In reality, they manage about 3 over 24 months.

Litters of 20? Again, it may be possible, but the reality is that the average litter is 6-8 according to the folks at A&M. I have cut open a LOT of pregnant sows, and exceptionally few have more than 10 and I think my personal record find is 13. I see a lot with 4-6 on board.

Getting 3 litters a year with litter sizes up to 20 may be what pig farmers can do in controlled environmental and breeding situations, but these are not what is going on out in the field with feral hogs.

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 06/04/21 04:33 PM.

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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284817 06/04/21 05:00 PM
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I keyed in 3 different area codes and there were NO dealers in those areas. May be hard to find.

Re: HogStop Approved [Re: flintknapper] #8284827 06/04/21 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper

From their site:


"Can other animals be affected by HogStop?
Mono-gastric and ruminant animals such as deer, raccoons, sheep, and goats may be affected by a reduction in fertility, if eaten in large quantities. To avoid nontarget animal effects, we recommend hog-specific feeders that work to keep out all other animal types."


They also only lightly brush over the hazards to humans. We are mono-gastric animals too. The site says use caution when handling because it may be harmful to humans. I am sure that means "may sterilize you."

It also only lightly touches on eating the hogs that have consumed this stuff. Says it is safe because it is made from typical feedstuffs. Yes, I am sure the cornmeal or whatever is used as a carrier is fine, but what residual contraceptive is left in the animal? My family eats most of the pigs I kill. Does feeding those hogs to my teenage boys mean no grandkids? Would be nice to know that. At least warfarin turned the fat blue so you knew not to eat that one.

Last edited by COKEMAN; 06/04/21 05:21 PM.
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: COKEMAN] #8284853 06/04/21 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by COKEMAN
Originally Posted by flintknapper

From their site:


"Can other animals be affected by HogStop?
Mono-gastric and ruminant animals such as deer, raccoons, sheep, and goats may be affected by a reduction in fertility, if eaten in large quantities. To avoid nontarget animal effects, we recommend hog-specific feeders that work to keep out all other animal types."


They also only lightly brush over the hazards to humans. We are mono-gastric animals too. The site says use caution when handling because it may be harmful to humans. I am sure that means "may sterilize you."

It also only lightly touches on eating the hogs that have consumed this stuff. Says it is safe because it is made from typical feedstuffs. Yes, I am sure the cornmeal or whatever is used as a carrier is fine, but what residual contraceptive is left in the animal? My family eats most of the pigs I kill. Does feeding those hogs to my teenage boys mean no grandkids? Would be nice to know that. At least warfarin turned the fat blue so you knew not to eat that one.


Well, warfarin didn't turn the fat blue. A die did, but yeah, it posed a danger and the die they used in rat poison would let you know that the hog had eaten rat poison. I don't know that they were using the die in Kaput, the brand for the hog poison. This stuff probably poses a danger as well, although Sid Miller isn't really going to tell you about it.

Notice that they don't list the active ingredients on the Hog Stop site? Why?

They say it is "natural." That must mean it is good like arsenic, carbon monoxide, strychnine, ricin, cyanide, etc.

DON'T TRUST COMPANIES THAT WON'T TELL YOU WHAT IS IN THE PRODUCT YOU WILL BE USING ON YOUR LAND.

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 06/04/21 06:14 PM.

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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284861 06/04/21 06:21 PM
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There is very little information available on the companies website. The information provided is sketchy at best. There are no long term studies, just one man’s opinion. This should be a real concern to all hunters and consumers of wild game and domestic animals that could consume Hog Stop.


All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Edmund Burke
Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Pappybear] #8284875 06/04/21 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy


Well, warfarin didn't turn the fat blue. A die did, but yeah, it posed a danger and the die they used in rat poison would let you know that the hog had eaten rat poison. I don't know that they were using the die in Kaput, the brand for the hog poison...


Agreed. A die, not warfarin itself. I should have said "product." My bad. I was told Kaput used the dye as well, but I have no first hand knowledge of that, so it's just a guess. At a minimum, I want some kind of tracer in this stuff.

Re: HogStop Approved [Re: COKEMAN] #8284953 06/04/21 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by COKEMAN
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy


Well, warfarin didn't turn the fat blue. A die did, but yeah, it posed a danger and the die they used in rat poison would let you know that the hog had eaten rat poison. I don't know that they were using the die in Kaput, the brand for the hog poison...


Agreed. A die, not warfarin itself. I should have said "product." My bad. I was told Kaput used the dye as well, but I have no first hand knowledge of that, so it's just a guess. At a minimum, I want some kind of tracer in this stuff.

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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284965 06/04/21 08:30 PM
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Seems like a waste of time.

In an effort to control the deer herd, other cities have tried to sterilize the deer. To any no sportsman's surprise, that program turned out to be a costly failure.

I believe that education and access to contraception is the key to solving the problem of hog over population. I'm shocked that Austin hasn't gotten on board with that program yet cyclo


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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8284967 06/04/21 08:32 PM
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Of course, you would first need to address the problem of hog literacy. It's hard to read and comprehend the literature if you can't read.


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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Pappybear] #8285052 06/04/21 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pappybear
There is very little information available on the companies website. The information provided is sketchy at best. There are no long term studies, just one man’s opinion. This should be a real concern to all hunters and consumers of wild game and domestic animals that could consume Hog Stop.


Maybe the company just scammed the hell out of Sid Miller and the stuff is garbage? muyloco Unfortunately, a lot of landowners will be scammed out of $$.


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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8285053 06/04/21 09:49 PM
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I'd love to see a independent study on the efficacy of this product with detrimental effects to non-targeted species noted. If you have nothing to hide, this shouldn't be a problem to share.

Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8285055 06/04/21 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted by Pappybear
There is very little information available on the companies website. The information provided is sketchy at best. There are no long term studies, just one man’s opinion. This should be a real concern to all hunters and consumers of wild game and domestic animals that could consume Hog Stop.


Maybe the company just scammed the hell out of Sid Miller and the stuff is garbage? muyloco Unfortunately, a lot of landowners will be scammed out of $$.



Not just the company, but this has Texas Farm Bureau written all over it. Them and their lobbyists.

Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8285316 06/05/21 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Originally Posted by Pappybear
There is very little information available on the companies website. The information provided is sketchy at best. There are no long term studies, just one man’s opinion. This should be a real concern to all hunters and consumers of wild game and domestic animals that could consume Hog Stop.

Unfortunately, a lot of landowners will be scammed out of $$.



^^^^^

I'd like to think that anyone smart enough to own and successfully manage land would not be so easily taken in. But....perhaps in desperation, some folks would try it. Hogs are certainly a problem and I don't disagree with the concept of sterilizing the males....but surely it warrants more study and more transparent sharing of information. As it stands.....apparently the EPA has listed it a 'pesticide' that you buy online and apply as you see fit. What could possibly go wrong. It would be interesting to know who all has a financial interest in this.


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Re: HogStop Approved [Re: Dalroo] #8285365 06/05/21 11:00 AM
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One problem is that it only takes one male to cover a bunch of sows. And this stuff only effects boars. Make 75% of the boars sterile and you’ve accomplished almost nothing.


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