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Texas Constitution Carry #8283893 06/03/21 05:24 PM
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spacejunkie Online Content OP
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Anyone have an update on this bill and it's signing?

Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8283895 06/03/21 05:28 PM
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My understanding is it passed the legislature. If so, if the Governor doesn't sign it, it will automatically become law. I'm confused why he hasn't.


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8283967 06/03/21 06:45 PM
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Confused also. All I read was that he would sign it and thought it was a done deal.

Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8283979 06/03/21 06:56 PM
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the guy did dodge a question about it whether he would sign it or not a few weeks ago...
it's a simple yes or no answer...


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8284014 06/03/21 07:41 PM
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He has until the 20th to sign it. Probably waiting on a proper photo op to do it.

In any case whether he signs it or not....it becomes law on Sept 1st as long as it isn't vetoed which he would not do.

It's as good as done. Hashing through the 'signage' and how that might be implemented (without confusing half the State) is what I am interested in seeing.


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8284060 06/03/21 08:26 PM
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Only a guess, but he isn't signing it so he can look good to both sides. Republicans don't complain because it passes based on time expiration and no veto, and he can claim with liberals that he never signed it and only went with what the people wanted.

I have zero to back this up but it's my guess.

Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8284228 06/03/21 11:23 PM
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Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: Jimbo1] #8284279 06/04/21 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...

Well I've got nothing to hide!


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: Jimbo1] #8284316 06/04/21 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...


The last version I saw specifically said LE cannot detain a person to determine if they are legal to have a gun if that is the only reason to detain them. That's as of Sept. 1; right now a person who is open carrying can be checked just to see if they have an LTC.


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: Grizz] #8284324 06/04/21 01:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Grizz
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...


The last version I saw specifically said LE cannot detain a person to determine if they are legal to have a gun if that is the only reason to detain them. That's as of Sept. 1; right now a person who is open carrying can be checked just to see if they have an LTC.

Thank you Sir.


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: Jimbo1] #8284353 06/04/21 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...


There is a whole can of worms there. Without hearing/reading EXACTLY what was said....no one can accurately answer your question.

Are you asking the question with respect to Open Carry under current law, or asking about Open Carry of a firearm (not a long gun) AFTER Sept. 1st when permit- less carry goes into effect?

Edit to add: OK I see someone responded while I was typing and made the distinction between current law and after Sept. 1st.

My understanding is the same as what they posted.

Last edited by flintknapper; 06/04/21 02:04 AM.

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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: flintknapper] #8284367 06/04/21 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...


There is a whole can of worms there. Without hearing/reading EXACTLY what was said....no one can accurately answer your question.

Are you asking the question with respect to Open Carry under current law, or asking about Open Carry of a firearm (not a long gun) AFTER Sept. 1st when permit- less carry goes into effect?

Edit to add: OK I see someone responded while I was typing and made the distinction between current law and after Sept. 1st.

My understanding is the same as what they posted.


This section of the amendment is what is going to be in question:

Quote
A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge
of the officer's official duties may disarm a person at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the person, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the person before discharging the person from the scene if the officer determines that the person is not a threat to the officer, person, or another individual and if the person has not committed a violation that results in the arrest of the person.


Reading an article on it this is how it was interpreted:

To get the legislation passed, some changes were made in response to concerns from law enforcement.

Initially, the bill banned police officers from questioning a person on the sole basis that they were carrying a pistol.

But lawmakers compromised, amending the bill to now allow officers to question and disarm a person “at any time the officer reasonably believe it is necessary for the protection of the person, officer or another individual,” according to the bill. The officer has to return the handgun if the person is deemed not to be a threat and if the person hasn’t committed a violation that results in an arrest.

I’m guessing a lawsuit will be filed within the first month when someone is stopped, disarmed and detained for “no reason”.

Last edited by krmitchell; 06/04/21 02:22 AM.
Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: krmitchell] #8284428 06/04/21 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by krmitchell
Originally Posted by flintknapper
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...


There is a whole can of worms there. Without hearing/reading EXACTLY what was said....no one can accurately answer your question.

Are you asking the question with respect to Open Carry under current law, or asking about Open Carry of a firearm (not a long gun) AFTER Sept. 1st when permit- less carry goes into effect?

Edit to add: OK I see someone responded while I was typing and made the distinction between current law and after Sept. 1st.

My understanding is the same as what they posted.


This section of the amendment is what is going to be in question:

Quote
A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge
of the officer's official duties may disarm a person at any time the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the person, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall return the handgun to the person before discharging the person from the scene if the officer determines that the person is not a threat to the officer, person, or another individual and if the person has not committed a violation that results in the arrest of the person.


Reading an article on it this is how it was interpreted:

To get the legislation passed, some changes were made in response to concerns from law enforcement.

Initially, the bill banned police officers from questioning a person on the sole basis that they were carrying a pistol.

But lawmakers compromised, amending the bill to now allow officers to question and disarm a person “at any time the officer reasonably believe it is necessary for the protection of the person, officer or another individual,” according to the bill. The officer has to return the handgun if the person is deemed not to be a threat and if the person hasn’t committed a violation that results in an arrest.

I’m guessing a lawsuit will be filed within the first month when someone is stopped, disarmed and detained for “no reason”.


That is really no different than what has always been in effect with Concealed Carry and Open Carry. Holds true for the motorist protection act as well (Officer may disarm). But to initially 'stop' a person, there would need to be 'reasonable suspicion' (which police are adept at and courts sympathetic to) in order to legally 'detain'.

Now that doesn't mean LEO can't engage you in a "Voluntary" verbal exchange, same as any other person. But you don't have to participate.

Basically there are three ways you can be contacted:

1. Voluntary Contact
2. Involuntary Detention
3. Arrest

Each has its own requirements.

But as you say....until someone takes it to court and precedent is set....its all a little iffy.


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: MikeC] #8285215 06/05/21 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by MikeC
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...

Well I've got nothing to hide!


No offense Mike but that really isn't the point. No one should be able to stop you and make you prove you have a right or are innocent.

Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: TXHOGSLAYER] #8285232 06/05/21 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TXHOGSLAYER
Originally Posted by MikeC
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...

Well I've got nothing to hide!


No offense Mike but that really isn't the point. No one should be able to stop you and make you prove you have a right or are innocent.

"No one should be able to stop you and make you prove you have a right or are innocent." My thoughts exactly.


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: spacejunkie] #8285412 06/05/21 01:22 PM
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Quote
No offense Mike but that really isn't the point. No one should be able to stop you and make you prove you have a right or are innocent.


None taken!


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Re: Texas Constitution Carry [Re: TXHOGSLAYER] #8285537 06/05/21 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by TXHOGSLAYER
Originally Posted by MikeC
Originally Posted by Jimbo1
Just saw on local news where PD can stop and ask for ID of anyone openly carrying. Dallas PD union spokesman said it. Is this true? I don't like it.
Thoughts...

Well I've got nothing to hide!


No offense Mike but that really isn't the point. No one should be able to stop you and make you prove you have a right or are innocent.


I agree completely. With respect to 'current' law (open carry), LEO would have the right to do so...since the 'privilege' to carry requires a license (not unlike a drivers license). But once permit-less carry goes into effect....we will have 'restored' a right and would be carrying under that authority....the way I see it.

I have no doubt that some departments will make it their 'policy' to conduct what amounts to a 'Terry Stop' but without the requirement of 'reasonable suspicion'. It will take a number of Court Cases and/or another Legislative Session to correct that, should that become a problem. The citizenry will need to 'stand up' to this (not at the street level) and be willing to challenge in the courts and to pressure legislators.

Rights not exercised are soon lost (for practical purposes).

Last edited by flintknapper; 06/05/21 04:08 PM.

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