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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8272561 05/21/21 04:49 PM
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The current puppet masters don't believe in private property, except of course, their compounds.

Yes, leasing hunting, but still acting as a guest, is a hard concept for some to wrap their head around. It usually pays to be humble, but some guys just don't have it in them.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8272596 05/21/21 05:25 PM
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Like Creek said, many don't get it that there is only one owner of the property. Those people are the same that may complain about doing something to improve the property even though it may make the lease better for them. i don't think the price of a lease is going to be the determining factor as to who has a lease. I am assuming there are places that lease for $1000. per gun but there are others that go for $5000. We seek out what can be afforded. The greatest danger is when the heirs of a property decide to sell rather than retain the land.

Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Wilhunt] #8272638 05/21/21 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Wilhunt
The greatest danger is when the heirs of a property decide to sell rather than retain the land.


I've also seen cases where it's practically impossible to secure a lease when heirs don't get along. The parents die without a will and the kids never probate the property because of the cost and taxes. While one heir might give you permission to hunt, others can as well from other heirs.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/21/21 06:11 PM.

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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Creekrunner] #8272644 05/21/21 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
The current puppet masters don't believe in private property, except of course, their compounds.

Yes, leasing hunting, but still acting as a guest, is a hard concept for some to wrap their head around. It usually pays to be humble, but some guys just don't have it in them.


^^^^^The few guys I have had to kick off our lease have all had this in common.

Last edited by freerange; 05/21/21 06:21 PM.

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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8272655 05/21/21 06:27 PM
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In South Africa, a lot of the resident populations hunt. Season leases there are almost unheard of, what is very popular is 3-4 day package hunts. Guys come in, stay/camp for 3-4 years, get their bush meat and get home.

I can see more domestic hunting going this way. I would not mind letting some hunters come in to kill a few surplus animals, but what I wouldn’t want is some guys hanging out for 3 months. 3-4 days hunts works great.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: ILUVBIGBUCKS] #8272660 05/21/21 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
No, many of them don't. That is sort of the point about being land rich and cash poor. A lot of farmers are in the same shape.


If that was the case many ranches/farmers would of went up for sale via the country court steps because of depressed cattle prices and grain prices last few years.

Perception isn’t always reality. Like I said most will live off nothing to get through hard times with out getting into savings. Nature of the game when you are use to only getting a paycheck 1-3 times a year, and are the mercy of
Mother nature.

Leasing hunting is a diversity investment to add another 1-2 paychecks a year.

Not saying farming and ranching are a get rich occupation, but it’s an occupation that requires very thoughtful spending and saving.






I disagree

I'm talking about the ranches that have been in families for generations for the most part.
A lot of the true blue Texas Ranchers would rather starve than sell an acre of their sacred land and I don't blame them for that one bit. The land means everything to them because of the values they were taught on it!

Many down South are now have millions in the bank because of the EF oil boom but prior to that literally scratched a living off that brush for generations from cattle and what they could get selling either leases or package hunts.


All I know is my experience with my own 6th generation place, family, friends and multi-generational leasor’s. I've never had any grass or dirt go un-leased and I’ve never not have a standing offer on a peice of land from a leasee. There is a huge difference in being broke and saying/living like you are. Younger generations are leveraged, the older, not so much. With that said everyones perspective of money/savings amounts are different.

Broke small ranchers/farmers are the minority not majority IMO.


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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8272767 05/21/21 08:37 PM
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I was on a lease south of Ozona for just one year, with a buddy from church, before the big fires went across it and then my buddy died. Large, multiple-ranch owner; well-known name in the Sonora/Ozona area. He hadn't laid his eyes on the pasture and camp in twenty years. I was even a little shocked, but the camp looked like a "Colonia". Actually, I think a Colonia is a little nicer. Owner finally wound up on the place and had a conniption fit. I don't really blame him. I wouldn't want all that crap on my land and there was no way it was ever gonna be hauled off by the "responsible parties". God Bless the VFD, although the fire would have helped some of the camp. eek2 I got my travel trailer and never went back. I did not leave a thing of mine there.

'Point is, a "hands-off" owner isn't always a good thing. And an owner needs to regularly check all that he has.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Creekrunner] #8272922 05/21/21 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Point is, a "hands-off" owner isn't always a good thing. And an owner needs to regularly check all that he has.


This points back to my earlier comments, that maintaining an ongoing relationship with the landowner includes speaking with them routinely. You often hear stories from hunters who suddenly find out the landowner is going to sell his/her place or lease it to someone else. And usually when you hear such a story, the person telling it hasn't spoken with the landowner in months or since they paid for their lease a year ago.

I don't mind at all when a landowner asks me to let him/her know each time I intend to be on their property. In fact, I prefer it because it keeps a line of communication open where useful comments and information can be shared from both sides. As with any relationship involving people, the ones that include some measure of trust provide the greatest value to everyone involved. It's hard to develop trust with someone you speak with once a year at most.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/21/21 11:38 PM.

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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8273011 05/22/21 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by ILUVBIGBUCKS
[quote=BOBO the Clown]








Broke small ranchers/farmers are the minority not majority IMO.



I know several farmers that live not only in Texas but other areas as well.

None of them are close to broke. Actually quite the opposite.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Creekrunner] #8273016 05/22/21 01:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
I was on a lease south of Ozona for just one year, with a buddy from church, before the big fires went across it and then my buddy died. Large, multiple-ranch owner; well-known name in the Sonora/Ozona area. He hadn't laid his eyes on the pasture and camp in twenty years. I was even a little shocked, but the camp looked like a "Colonia". Actually, I think a Colonia is a little nicer. Owner finally wound up on the place and had a conniption fit. I don't really blame him. I wouldn't want all that crap on my land and there was no way it was ever gonna be hauled off by the "responsible parties". God Bless the VFD, although the fire would have helped some of the camp. eek2 I got my travel trailer and never went back. I did not leave a thing of mine there.

'Point is, a "hands-off" owner isn't always a good thing. And an owner needs to regularly check all that he has.



One day, many many years in the future, when you are no longer with us,

I’ll go down by the wind mill and build a Colonia in your honor. We will throw a pachanga/crawfish boil to be inclusive of all the neighbors


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273028 05/22/21 01:36 AM
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IMO there will always be deer leases available in Texas - to me the greatest danger today is deer hunting in South Texas -

There are still large ranch owners in STex who want the large income of leasing their ranches.

But in today's world, South Texas has become Mexico - hunters are fearful of the illegal drug traffic and what that brings. The whole ball game has changed down there and will affect how many hunters are willing to risk paying huge money for a lease with the risk of the drug cartel walking into their camps and their blinds - believe me it is real - until the border craziness stops South Texas hunting will suffer


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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273042 05/22/21 02:05 AM
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That’s a bit of stretch. It’s not the cartel it’s the illegals and the bs that comes with it. We have a couple tracts of land between family members in south Texas. To be specific La Salle, Webb, Jim Hogg, Hidalgo, and Starr. All considered to be high traffic areas. Do illegals of today pose a physical threat yes, but the Cartel is not walking into hunting camps. South Texas leases that produce good WT will NOT suffer. Just ask my in-laws. They just leased 2000ac HF ranch with improved genetics at $48k and require a set amount of protein to be fed yearly. I hear what you’re saying and there is a ton of bs that can be associated with south Texas leases, but el chapo ain’t showing up at camp.


“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."


Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Mike Honcho] #8273075 05/22/21 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
That’s a bit of stretch. It’s not the cartel it’s the illegals and the bs that comes with it. We have a couple tracts of land between family members in south Texas. To be specific La Salle, Webb, Jim Hogg, Hidalgo, and Starr. All considered to be high traffic areas. Do illegals of today pose a physical threat yes, but the Cartel is not walking into hunting camps. South Texas leases that produce good WT will NOT suffer. Just ask my in-laws. They just leased 2000ac HF ranch with improved genetics at $48k and require a set amount of protein to be fed yearly. I hear what you’re saying and there is a ton of bs that can be associated with south Texas leases, but el chapo ain’t showing up at camp.


Sir maybe not in YOUR camp but it was in ours - I have spent 13 years twelve miles from Eagle Pass - mosey down there for a few days and tell me the cartel is not there - how do I know? because I have personally witnessed it multiple times - don't believe me? Go ask any BP agent in that area - I had many BP officers tell me how many cartel members were moving through the area and that they were dealing with. My hunters and I witnessed multiple groups dressed in black from head to toe with backpacks going through our ranch and some approaching camp. It is a real issue where we are.

I also know many many other LO's in that area and they are overrun - so it may not have reached your area yet but trust me it is happening in a pretty big swath where we were -

Not starting a Pissing match - I respect that maybe you do not have it in Webb, etc but believe me it is full force in a large area near the border and it has hunters thinking twice -

https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/03...g-property-damage-and-trashing-his-land/

Last edited by tlk; 05/22/21 02:44 AM.

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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: tlk] #8273079 05/22/21 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
That’s a bit of stretch. It’s not the cartel it’s the illegals and the bs that comes with it. We have a couple tracts of land between family members in south Texas. To be specific La Salle, Webb, Jim Hogg, Hidalgo, and Starr. All considered to be high traffic areas. Do illegals of today pose a physical threat yes, but the Cartel is not walking into hunting camps. South Texas leases that produce good WT will NOT suffer. Just ask my in-laws. They just leased 2000ac HF ranch with improved genetics at $48k and require a set amount of protein to be fed yearly. I hear what you’re saying and there is a ton of bs that can be associated with south Texas leases, but el chapo ain’t showing up at camp.


Sir maybe not in YOUR camp but it was in ours - I have spent 13 years twelve miles from Eagle Pass - mosey down there for a few days and tell me the cartel is not there - how do I know? because I have personally witnessed it multiple times - don't believe me? Go ask any BP agent in that area -

I also know many many other LO's in that area and they are overrun - so it may not have reached your area yet but trust me it is happening in a pretty big swath where we were -

Not starting a Pissing match - I respect that maybe you do not have it in Webb, etc but believe me it is full force in a large area near the border and it has hunters thinking twice


Not trying to start one either. Anything west of Webb I’m not to familiar with. That’s terrible to hear and I can only hope that the tide changes soon.


“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."


Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273082 05/22/21 02:47 AM
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There is a ton, I mean a ton of illegal traffic in South Texas right now. Unprecedented amounts.

But I don’t know of anyone getting off their leases. South Texas will always be a Mecca for deer hunting and any available land will not go unleashed.


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Mike Honcho] #8273085 05/22/21 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
That’s a bit of stretch. It’s not the cartel it’s the illegals and the bs that comes with it. We have a couple tracts of land between family members in south Texas. To be specific La Salle, Webb, Jim Hogg, Hidalgo, and Starr. All considered to be high traffic areas. Do illegals of today pose a physical threat yes, but the Cartel is not walking into hunting camps. South Texas leases that produce good WT will NOT suffer. Just ask my in-laws. They just leased 2000ac HF ranch with improved genetics at $48k and require a set amount of protein to be fed yearly. I hear what you’re saying and there is a ton of bs that can be associated with south Texas leases, but el chapo ain’t showing up at camp.


Sir maybe not in YOUR camp but it was in ours - I have spent 13 years twelve miles from Eagle Pass - mosey down there for a few days and tell me the cartel is not there - how do I know? because I have personally witnessed it multiple times - don't believe me? Go ask any BP agent in that area -

I also know many many other LO's in that area and they are overrun - so it may not have reached your area yet but trust me it is happening in a pretty big swath where we were -

Not starting a Pissing match - I respect that maybe you do not have it in Webb, etc but believe me it is full force in a large area near the border and it has hunters thinking twice


Not trying to start one either. Anything west of Webb I’m not to familiar with. That’s terrible to hear and I can only hope that the tide changes soon.

Anything west of Webb is Neuvao Laredo. Webb is a hot spot for cartel.


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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: tlk] #8273101 05/22/21 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
That’s a bit of stretch. It’s not the cartel it’s the illegals and the bs that comes with it. We have a couple tracts of land between family members in south Texas. To be specific La Salle, Webb, Jim Hogg, Hidalgo, and Starr. All considered to be high traffic areas. Do illegals of today pose a physical threat yes, but the Cartel is not walking into hunting camps. South Texas leases that produce good WT will NOT suffer. Just ask my in-laws. They just leased 2000ac HF ranch with improved genetics at $48k and require a set amount of protein to be fed yearly. I hear what you’re saying and there is a ton of bs that can be associated with south Texas leases, but el chapo ain’t showing up at camp.


Sir maybe not in YOUR camp but it was in ours - I have spent 13 years twelve miles from Eagle Pass - mosey down there for a few days and tell me the cartel is not there - how do I know? because I have personally witnessed it multiple times - don't believe me? Go ask any BP agent in that area - I had many BP officers tell me how many cartel members were moving through the area and that they were dealing with. My hunters and I witnessed multiple groups dressed in black from head to toe with backpacks going through our ranch and some approaching camp. It is a real issue where we are.

I also know many many other LO's in that area and they are overrun - so it may not have reached your area yet but trust me it is happening in a pretty big swath where we were -

Not starting a Pissing match - I respect that maybe you do not have it in Webb, etc but believe me it is full force in a large area near the border and it has hunters thinking twice -

https://www.dailysignal.com/2021/03...g-property-damage-and-trashing-his-land/

I have also witnessed the “men in black” in Webb county. Our camp was a major landmark for a lot of illegal traffic.


Still looking for a S Texas quail lease spot.
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273126 05/22/21 04:17 AM
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Not disagreeing, but how do you all know the guys in black are cartel? Illegals are the cartels #1 commodity. It’s the gift that keeps giving. Many times the illegals will pay up to $10k usd to be guided across. Once They get picked up on our side they dropped back over and they work for several years for the cartel for another opportunity to be led across. 9/10 times the coyotes leading them are not actual cartel guys. They are just on the payroll and sadly live on our side. The cartel uses a lot of local gangbangers and thugs. I guess that’s splitting hairs. One thing that I’ve learned is cartels realize violence on our side is bad for business. That’s why at grandpas place when BP, DPS, or State boys are on them they either drop their stash and book it for the river or if they are close they will try and make it back across with the merchandise. The cartels aren’t stupid they want to minimize their presence it’s bad for business. That’s one of the multitude of things Biden is clueless on. He doesn’t realize opening our border is putting tons of renewable revenue in the pockets of drug cartels. The left ideology incentivizes and promotes that revenue stream.


My grandpas place is literally on the banks of the rio grande in Hidalgo County. I grew up on that place and seen more illegals than I can count. A couple years back I went to go night hunt grandpas place. when I showed up in the back section there was 9 of those 15 passenger vans that BP uses as paddy wagons full to the brim. they still Had maybe 30 people sitting on the ground. Believe me I’m familiar with the problem. Hell I spent 2 years and a good chunk of money restoring one of grandpas JD 4020’s and they made a big [censored] floating dock and tried to steal it. BP thermal caught it and went to intercept. they panicked and it ended up at the bottom of the river. I’m still not over that.


“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."


Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: txtrophy85] #8273137 05/22/21 05:05 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
I was on a lease south of Ozona for just one year, with a buddy from church, before the big fires went across it and then my buddy died. Large, multiple-ranch owner; well-known name in the Sonora/Ozona area. He hadn't laid his eyes on the pasture and camp in twenty years. I was even a little shocked, but the camp looked like a "Colonia". Actually, I think a Colonia is a little nicer. Owner finally wound up on the place and had a conniption fit. I don't really blame him. I wouldn't want all that crap on my land and there was no way it was ever gonna be hauled off by the "responsible parties". God Bless the VFD, although the fire would have helped some of the camp. eek2 I got my travel trailer and never went back. I did not leave a thing of mine there.

'Point is, a "hands-off" owner isn't always a good thing. And an owner needs to regularly check all that he has.



One day, many many years in the future, when you are no longer with us,

I’ll go down by the wind mill and build a Colonia in your honor. We will throw a pachanga/crawfish boil to be inclusive of all the neighbors






Please forgive my ignorance, but what is a Colina? I checked Google, but I am guessing neither one of you are referring to a genus of snails or a Peruvian death squad.

Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273140 05/22/21 05:18 AM
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Colonia = poor neighborhood or residential area in south texas. Proper Spanish it’s = to suburb. On our side Picture tin roof and walls Made of the following materials or mix of osb, tin siding, cinder blocks, or pallets. Picture shanty towns and shacks.


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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273176 05/22/21 06:02 AM
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The loss of hunting leases is not the real issue. Urban sprawl around the country is sucking a couple of millions of acres every year of the food production chain. Over the last 50 years a lot of ranches and farms in the Abilene area have been turned into housing "projects" with postage sized lots filled with MacMansions.

This report is 7 years old. https://www.texastribune.org/2014/10/14/open-space-texas/


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Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Mike Honcho] #8273182 05/22/21 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
Colonia = poor neighborhood or residential area in south texas. Proper Spanish it’s = to suburb. On our side Picture tin roof and walls Made of the following materials or mix of osb, tin siding, cinder blocks, or pallets. Picture shanty towns and shacks.


up Thanks

Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: Mike Honcho] #8273210 05/22/21 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike Honcho
Not disagreeing, but how do you all know the guys in black are cartel? Illegals are the cartels #1 commodity. It’s the gift that keeps giving. Many times the illegals will pay up to $10k usd to be guided across. Once They get picked up on our side they dropped back over and they work for several years for the cartel for another opportunity to be led across. 9/10 times the coyotes leading them are not actual cartel guys. They are just on the payroll and sadly live on our side. The cartel uses a lot of local gangbangers and thugs. I guess that’s splitting hairs. One thing that I’ve learned is cartels realize violence on our side is bad for business. That’s why at grandpas place when BP, DPS, or State boys are on them they either drop their stash and book it for the river or if they are close they will try and make it back across with the merchandise. The cartels aren’t stupid they want to minimize their presence it’s bad for business. That’s one of the multitude of things Biden is clueless on. He doesn’t realize opening our border is putting tons of renewable revenue in the pockets of drug cartels. The left ideology incentivizes and promotes that revenue stream.


My grandpas place is literally on the banks of the rio grande in Hidalgo County. I grew up on that place and seen more illegals than I can count. A couple years back I went to go night hunt grandpas place. when I showed up in the back section there was 9 of those 15 passenger vans that BP uses as paddy wagons full to the brim. they still Had maybe 30 people sitting on the ground. Believe me I’m familiar with the problem. Hell I spent 2 years and a good chunk of money restoring one of grandpas JD 4020’s and they made a big [censored] floating dock and tried to steal it. BP thermal caught it and went to intercept. they panicked and it ended up at the bottom of the river. I’m still not over that.


Because of many discussions with BP who are there daily and tell us how many cartel members they chase and catch - they have also told us how many of the illegals they catch are now armed - in 13 years we never had an illegal walk into our camp while we were there and this past season it happened on a regular basis - when a hunter is fearful to leave their wife in camp alone while they hunt then that becomes an issue


You can't fix stupid
Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273263 05/22/21 01:40 PM
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That’s interesting how different regions operate. I’m so accustomed to seeing illegals walking through all the family places but la salle that I have BP on my favorites contact list. By the grace of God I haven’t run into an armed one, but a group of 25 is nerve racking even with a an AR. I pray it stays that way. I hope your situation improves and you can enjoy that time with the family.


“Two things that define an individual what you do when you have everything, and what you do when you have nothing."


Re: hunting leases will be a thing of the past [Re: booskay] #8273267 05/22/21 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by booskay
With hunting land now selling for between $4,000 ------------$8,000 an acre ( I just sold 42 acres for $340,000 in Durango, Tx), the amount people will pay to lease it will be insignificant to the new land owners, so it is unlikely they will lease the hunting rights. If you paid $340K for land would you really lease the rights for $2K---No.


Even those who bought their land when it was selling for hundreds of dollars an acre want 4-5K+ for a hundred acre hunting lease. You're absolutely right that those buying land at current prices will consider even that to be pennies on the dollar. The only available hunting will be on high fence ranches with inbred, overfed farmed deer where you pay 5-10K per hunt rather than per season.

What this means is that like in Europe, only the wealthiest or most well-connected will have access to hunting of any kind within a generation.

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