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Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
#8267921
05/17/21 01:54 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382 |
Check out this article on proposals to reintroduce jaguars Article Link Also note that the eastern edge is very close to the Rio Grande Valley.
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8267931
05/17/21 02:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424 |
Not no but hell NO!!! 1st and foremost Jags roamed very minute areas of NM and AZ
AZ WILL BE SCREWED OUT OF ANY PREDATOR MANAGEMENT THEY PREVIOULY HAD. History will repeat it's self just like it has on the Wolf and Grizzly. Where populations baselines and sustainable habitats limits ignored
Bad idea x100000000
Over past 10 years AZ has been a ML hunting battle ground. Hounds kill one collared jag and no more hound hunting and lion population exposes even higher, having massive impacts on ungulate re-introductions
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8267934
05/17/21 02:09 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,125
ntxtrapper
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 12,125 |
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8267938
05/17/21 02:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795 |
Immigration control.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: dogcatcher]
#8267956
05/17/21 02:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 19,125
TCM3
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 19,125 |
Immigration control.
Do not forget to entertain strangers, For by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels Hebrews 13:2 (R-TX)
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8267963
05/17/21 02:49 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,902
txtrophy85
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 31,902 |
Not no but hell NO!!! 1st and foremost Jags roamed very minute areas of NM and AZ
AZ WILL BE SCREWED OUT OF ANY PREDATOR MANAGEMENT THEY PREVIOULY HAD. History will repeat it's self just like it has on the Wolf and Grizzly. Where populations baselines and sustainable habitats limits ignored
Bad idea x100000000
Over past 10 years AZ has been a ML hunting battle ground. Hounds kill one collared jag and no more hound hunting and lion population exposes even higher, having massive impacts on ungulate re-introductions From my research these cats really only ventured into the United States, they didn't really inhabit the areas in any appreciable numbers....more like make visits is what they did
For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: TCM3]
#8267987
05/17/21 03:28 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 69,162
NORML as can be
^^Cut the Cord^^
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^^Cut the Cord^^
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 69,162 |
(R-TX) .-- " TCNN CURL CRLB VFF VRNO AYR SNDL CGC TLRY MSOS "
_=====___=________==-
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8268033
05/17/21 08:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,119
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,119 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: kry226]
#8268042
05/17/21 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150
Hudbone
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 14,150 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Hudbone]
#8268062
05/17/21 11:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,119
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,119 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be. But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8268065
05/17/21 11:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 91,416 |
Live and let live. Just keep them out of my yard.
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: kry226]
#8268087
05/17/21 12:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150
Hudbone
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be. But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups. Realize I did not say I was in favor of this, only that it was doing what Bangs & crew set out to do.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: bill oxner]
#8268088
05/17/21 12:05 PM
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,311
Herbie Hancock
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,311 |
Live and let live. Just keep them out of my yard. That's what the elites say on the west coast about open boarders.
It takes beer to make thirst worthwhile - J. Fred Schmidt
The internet is an I.Q. Test, people post their scores in the comment section.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8268095
05/17/21 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,115
Ranch Dawg
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 6,115 |
But, there’s already black cats in east Texas ,,,
THE ROAD GOES ON FOREVER AND THE PARTY NEVER ENDS.
F##K YOU JOE BIDEN !!!!!
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Hudbone]
#8268106
05/17/21 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,119
kry226
The General
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The General
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 12,119 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be. But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups. Realize I did not say I was in favor of this, only that it was doing what Bangs & crew set out to do.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Hudbone]
#8268120
05/17/21 12:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404
Choctaw
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 11,404 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. Maybe the jaguars will eat the wolves and any liberals they come across. We should introduce them into Austin.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Hudbone]
#8268135
05/17/21 12:47 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. Actually you are completely wrong. The scientific recovered number for them to come off ESA was as much 20x less then what it was when states actually got management back. Litigation went 10 years past when it was supposed to. Same thing is happening with Grizzlies. Many states took big ungulate number drops all while having to set back and watch wolves explode under ESa protections because of antihunting litigation. Every agreement was broken, even when USFW AGREED THEY WHERE FULLY recovered, anti-hunters kept states from gaining control through litigation. There is a reason Idaho just passed legislation to begin winter helicopter gunning and wide open “means of take” of wolves to try to knock them back to 150 from 1800
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: kry226]
#8268142
05/17/21 12:52 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be. But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups. Wolves haven't restores anything on the land scape. They have accomplished nothing that human management couldn't. The North American Conservation model is about sustainability, unchecked wolves undermine that. 1000’s of tags have been lost From unchecked Canadian wolf introduction. The only state in lower 48 with a growing moose population has virtually no wolves(for now)
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: txtrophy85]
#8268144
05/17/21 12:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
|
kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424 |
Not no but hell NO!!! 1st and foremost Jags roamed very minute areas of NM and AZ
AZ WILL BE SCREWED OUT OF ANY PREDATOR MANAGEMENT THEY PREVIOULY HAD. History will repeat it's self just like it has on the Wolf and Grizzly. Where populations baselines and sustainable habitats limits ignored
Bad idea x100000000
Over past 10 years AZ has been a ML hunting battle ground. Hounds kill one collared jag and no more hound hunting and lion population exposes even higher, having massive impacts on ungulate re-introductions From my research these cats really only ventured into the United States, they didn't really inhabit the areas in any appreciable numbers....more like make visits is what they did That's correct, the introduction is novel idea but will end up like mountain goats, taking over ranges they where never in, there for displacing and dramatically affecting native wildlife.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8268195
05/17/21 01:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150
Hudbone
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. Actually you are completely wrong. The scientific recovered number for them to come off ESA was as much 20x less then what it was when states actually got management back. Litigation went 10 years past when it was supposed to. Same thing is happening with Grizzlies. Many states took big ungulate number drops all while having to set back and watch wolves explode under ESa protections because of antihunting litigation. Every agreement was broken, even when USFW AGREED THEY WHERE FULLY recovered, anti-hunters kept states from gaining control through litigation. There is a reason Idaho just passed legislation to begin winter helicopter gunning and wide open “means of take” of wolves to try to knock them back to 150 from 1800 Trying to figure out what I missed or maybe, what you thought their intention was?
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Hudbone]
#8268211
05/17/21 02:06 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. Actually you are completely wrong. The scientific recovered number for them to come off ESA was as much 20x less then what it was when states actually got management back. Litigation went 10 years past when it was supposed to. Same thing is happening with Grizzlies. Many states took big ungulate number drops all while having to set back and watch wolves explode under ESa protections because of antihunting litigation. Every agreement was broken, even when USFW AGREED THEY WHERE FULLY recovered, anti-hunters kept states from gaining control through litigation. There is a reason Idaho just passed legislation to begin winter helicopter gunning and wide open “means of take” of wolves to try to knock them back to 150 from 1800 Trying to figure out what I missed or maybe, what you thought their intention was? The only debacle wasn’t just a southern displacement. Southern displacement is a result of hitting max carrying capacity in Greater Yellowstone eco system. Dispersal was in all directions. Debacle was legislation that protected well past pre-established recovery numbers.l, Which was a precursor to Grizzly recovery litigation, and also what will happen with jags.
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Choctaw]
#8268291
05/17/21 03:48 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382
nsmike
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 8,382 |
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go. Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do. Maybe the jaguars will eat the wolves and any liberals they come across. We should introduce them into Austin. That's tempting!
for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8268292
05/17/21 03:49 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150
Hudbone
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,150 |
"The only debacle wasn’t just a southern displacement. Southern displacement is a result of hitting max carrying capacity in Greater Yellowstone eco system. Dispersal was in all directions. Debacle was legislation that protected well past pre-established recovery numbers. l, Which was a precursor to Grizzly recovery litigation, and also what will happen with jags."
Like I said, " . . . pretty much done what they had hoped it would do."
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: Hudbone]
#8268316
05/17/21 04:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,424 |
"The only debacle wasn’t just a southern displacement. Southern displacement is a result of hitting max carrying capacity in Greater Yellowstone eco system. Dispersal was in all directions. Debacle was legislation that protected well past pre-established recovery numbers. l, Which was a precursor to Grizzly recovery litigation, and also what will happen with jags."
Like I said, " . . . pretty much done what they had hoped it would do." Correct my bad, I have reading comprehension issues this morning
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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM
[Re: nsmike]
#8268334
05/17/21 04:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,480
reeltexan
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,480 |
"Give me an Army of West Point graduates and I'll win a battle... Give me a handful of Texas Aggies and I'll win a war." - General Patton
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