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Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM #8267921 05/17/21 01:54 AM
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nsmike Offline OP
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Check out this article on proposals to reintroduce jaguars Article Link Also note that the eastern edge is very close to the Rio Grande Valley.


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8267931 05/17/21 02:06 AM
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BOBO the Clown Offline
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Not no but hell NO!!! 1st and foremost Jags roamed very minute areas of NM and AZ

AZ WILL BE SCREWED OUT OF ANY PREDATOR MANAGEMENT THEY PREVIOULY HAD. History will repeat it's self just like it has on the Wolf and Grizzly. Where populations baselines and sustainable habitats limits ignored

Bad idea x100000000


Over past 10 years AZ has been a ML hunting battle ground. Hounds kill one collared jag and no more hound hunting and lion population exposes even higher, having massive impacts on ungulate re-introductions


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8267934 05/17/21 02:09 AM
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Yep

Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8267938 05/17/21 02:11 AM
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Immigration control. clap


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: dogcatcher] #8267956 05/17/21 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
Immigration control. clap

clap


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8267963 05/17/21 02:49 AM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Not no but hell NO!!! 1st and foremost Jags roamed very minute areas of NM and AZ

AZ WILL BE SCREWED OUT OF ANY PREDATOR MANAGEMENT THEY PREVIOULY HAD. History will repeat it's self just like it has on the Wolf and Grizzly. Where populations baselines and sustainable habitats limits ignored

Bad idea x100000000


Over past 10 years AZ has been a ML hunting battle ground. Hounds kill one collared jag and no more hound hunting and lion population exposes even higher, having massive impacts on ungulate re-introductions



From my research these cats really only ventured into the United States, they didn't really inhabit the areas in any appreciable numbers....more like make visits is what they did


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: TCM3] #8267987 05/17/21 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TCM3
Originally Posted by dogcatcher
Immigration control. clap

clap


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8268033 05/17/21 08:42 AM
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I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: kry226] #8268042 05/17/21 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.

Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Hudbone] #8268062 05/17/21 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.

To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be.

But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups.


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8268065 05/17/21 11:38 AM
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Live and let live. Just keep them out of my yard.


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: kry226] #8268087 05/17/21 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by kry226
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.

To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be.

But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups.


Realize I did not say I was in favor of this, only that it was doing what Bangs & crew set out to do.

Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: bill oxner] #8268088 05/17/21 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bill oxner
Live and let live. Just keep them out of my yard.


That's what the elites say on the west coast about open boarders.


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The internet is an I.Q. Test, people post their scores in the comment section.
Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8268095 05/17/21 12:10 PM
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But, there’s already black cats in east Texas ,,, smile


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F##K YOU JOE BIDEN !!!!!
Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Hudbone] #8268106 05/17/21 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.

To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be.

But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups.


Realize I did not say I was in favor of this, only that it was doing what Bangs & crew set out to do.


cheers


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Hudbone] #8268120 05/17/21 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.


Maybe the jaguars will eat the wolves and any liberals they come across. We should introduce them into Austin.

Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Hudbone] #8268135 05/17/21 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.


Actually you are completely wrong. The scientific recovered number for them to come off ESA was as much 20x less then what it was when states actually got management back. Litigation went 10 years past when it was supposed to. Same thing is happening with Grizzlies.

Many states took big ungulate number drops all while having to set back and watch wolves explode under ESa protections because of antihunting litigation.

Every agreement was broken, even when USFW AGREED THEY WHERE FULLY recovered, anti-hunters kept states from gaining control through litigation.

There is a reason Idaho just passed legislation to begin winter helicopter gunning and wide open “means of take” of wolves to try to knock them back to 150 from 1800


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

https://secure.qgiv.com/for/gtgoh/mobile
Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: kry226] #8268142 05/17/21 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kry226
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.

To be sure, wolves have helped to restore some parts of the ecosystem, and that's great. But it ain't all there yet, with some voices saying it never will be.

But I was mostly speaking of the administrative debacle, the years' of litigation and fighting between the US and the states affected, and other interest groups.


Wolves haven't restores anything on the land scape. They have accomplished nothing that human management couldn't. The North American Conservation model is about sustainability, unchecked wolves undermine that. 1000’s of tags have been lost From unchecked Canadian wolf introduction. The only state in lower 48 with a growing moose population has virtually no wolves(for now)


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: txtrophy85] #8268144 05/17/21 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Not no but hell NO!!! 1st and foremost Jags roamed very minute areas of NM and AZ

AZ WILL BE SCREWED OUT OF ANY PREDATOR MANAGEMENT THEY PREVIOULY HAD. History will repeat it's self just like it has on the Wolf and Grizzly. Where populations baselines and sustainable habitats limits ignored

Bad idea x100000000


Over past 10 years AZ has been a ML hunting battle ground. Hounds kill one collared jag and no more hound hunting and lion population exposes even higher, having massive impacts on ungulate re-introductions



From my research these cats really only ventured into the United States, they didn't really inhabit the areas in any appreciable numbers....more like make visits is what they did




That's correct, the introduction is novel idea but will end up like mountain goats, taking over ranges they where never in, there for displacing and dramatically affecting native wildlife.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8268195 05/17/21 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.


Actually you are completely wrong. The scientific recovered number for them to come off ESA was as much 20x less then what it was when states actually got management back. Litigation went 10 years past when it was supposed to. Same thing is happening with Grizzlies.

Many states took big ungulate number drops all while having to set back and watch wolves explode under ESa protections because of antihunting litigation.

Every agreement was broken, even when USFW AGREED THEY WHERE FULLY recovered, anti-hunters kept states from gaining control through litigation.

There is a reason Idaho just passed legislation to begin winter helicopter gunning and wide open “means of take” of wolves to try to knock them back to 150 from 1800


Trying to figure out what I missed or maybe, what you thought their intention was?

Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Hudbone] #8268211 05/17/21 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.


Actually you are completely wrong. The scientific recovered number for them to come off ESA was as much 20x less then what it was when states actually got management back. Litigation went 10 years past when it was supposed to. Same thing is happening with Grizzlies.

Many states took big ungulate number drops all while having to set back and watch wolves explode under ESa protections because of antihunting litigation.

Every agreement was broken, even when USFW AGREED THEY WHERE FULLY recovered, anti-hunters kept states from gaining control through litigation.

There is a reason Idaho just passed legislation to begin winter helicopter gunning and wide open “means of take” of wolves to try to knock them back to 150 from 1800


Trying to figure out what I missed or maybe, what you thought their intention was?



The only debacle wasn’t just a southern displacement. Southern displacement is a result of hitting max carrying capacity in Greater Yellowstone eco system. Dispersal was in all directions. Debacle was legislation that protected well past pre-established recovery numbers.l, Which was a precursor to Grizzly recovery litigation, and also what will happen with jags.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Choctaw] #8268291 05/17/21 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Choctaw
Originally Posted by Hudbone
Originally Posted by kry226
I'm with BOBO... not to mention the wolf reintroduction up north has been a debacle from the get-go.


Nope, the only debacle in somes eyes is the smaller penetration of the wolves southward. Other than that, pretty much done what they had hoped it would do.


Maybe the jaguars will eat the wolves and any liberals they come across. We should introduce them into Austin.

That's tempting!


for every stereotype there's a prototype don't be the prototype
Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8268292 05/17/21 03:49 PM
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"The only debacle wasn’t just a southern displacement. Southern displacement is a result of hitting max carrying capacity in Greater Yellowstone eco system. Dispersal was in all directions. Debacle was legislation that protected well past pre-established recovery numbers. l, Which was a precursor to Grizzly recovery litigation, and also what will happen with jags."

Like I said, " . . . pretty much done what they had hoped it would do."

Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: Hudbone] #8268316 05/17/21 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
"The only debacle wasn’t just a southern displacement. Southern displacement is a result of hitting max carrying capacity in Greater Yellowstone eco system. Dispersal was in all directions. Debacle was legislation that protected well past pre-established recovery numbers. l, Which was a precursor to Grizzly recovery litigation, and also what will happen with jags."

Like I said, " . . . pretty much done what they had hoped it would do."


Correct my bad, I have reading comprehension issues this morning cheers up


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Re: Reintroducing Jaguars to AZ/NM [Re: nsmike] #8268334 05/17/21 04:25 PM
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