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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173330
02/17/21 05:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,876
blanked
Pro Tracker
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How many new homes have been built beyond the grid capacity
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: DannyB]
#8173333
02/17/21 05:15 PM
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 33,946
Buzzsaw
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nobody speaks of obama's war on coal as a direct cause of this week's energy crisis. Coal fired power plants operated in any conditions. I did. You may have breezed by it. Monticello, near Mt. Pleasant, I think had three huge coal generators. There was a mine in Winfield, near Mt. Pleasant, as well as one here in Sulphur Springs. They are all shut down. You can thank Democrats!! If you voted Democrat, you voted for this misery. There WAS a coal mine across the road from me. Did I bitch about "in my back yard?" -- No!! They were here before I was and were in front of me across the highway.
They were the best neighbors anyone could ask for. Now they are gone, along with the other coal mines in the area. They supplied coal to the power plant in Monticello and likely elsewhere. If they were still running there would likely be no outages.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: blanked]
#8173393
02/17/21 05:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 9,952
LFD2037
THF Trophy Hunter
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How many new homes have been built beyond the grid capacity In my small town alone, 1,000’s.
R.I.P. CPO Matt Mills-(DEVGRU)- You will NEVER be forgotten! 10-25-75 / 8-6-11 *K.I.A.*
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173404
02/17/21 05:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16,812
S.A. hunter
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None winterized power plants and lack of NG is the reason behind all this.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Nogalus Prairie]
#8173406
02/17/21 05:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 795
BbarVRanch
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Those coal plants closed mostly because they were no longer economically viable with all the oil and gas recoveries from the Barnett Shale and Permian Basin. It’s expensive to bring coal down from Wyoming and process it into electricity. Can’t compete with cheap oil and gas.
No doubt all the environmental pressures played a role but they would have opened back up in a heartbeat over the past 4 years if the economics had worked. We had a different president who changed most of those rules, remember? There's still quite a few coal mining operations in Texas. The coal that fuels the electric generators about 5 miles from me comes from Texas.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173408
02/17/21 05:51 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,091
CharlieCTx
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I can appreciate there are the popular topics to shake your fist at. This is simply a mechanical problem (stuff is broken or frozen) as it wasn't properly equipped/prepped and the most popular fuel (NG) has also had it's issues reaching places at the needed volume. The excess capacity works in the heat, not so much when it's cold. Why is that I wonder?
In 4-5 years, all of this will be largely forgotten from an industry perspective and "we" don't want to pay for the insurance. Heated wind turbine blades, annually winterized and tested plant gear, etc.
No different than my business... companies hate spending money on disaster recovery sites/high availability gear as it's insurance, just in case...The smart ones practice/test, annually. When something happens and they need it, it's worth it's weight in gold. Others half-[censored] it to make a check mark, and when they need to actually do it, they struggle. I think the latter identifies our current state of affairs.
As battery technology improves, I do think it will be interesting to see how home power storage (and even grid storage at some point) changes this for those that can invest in it. Ours has been mostly on/off hourly since Monday I guess, with storage capability here, might not even notice.
Charlie
Kel-Tec RFB + Griffin Sportsman Ultra Light 300 + Pulsar Apex XQ-50 M&P-10 + AAC Cyclone Remy 700 + Leupold VX3 3.5x10x50 CDS
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: LFD2037]
#8173410
02/17/21 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,763
Tin Head
THF Trophy Hunter
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How many new homes have been built beyond the grid capacity In my small town alone, 1,000’s. turn on the local news and you will see all the ghetto birds from chicago and LA in 200k homes crying that there is no heat. No worries , WE WILL PAY FOR IT.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: CharlieCTx]
#8173447
02/17/21 06:11 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16,812
S.A. hunter
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I can appreciate there are the popular topics to shake your fist at. This is simply a mechanical problem (stuff is broken or frozen) as it wasn't properly equipped/prepped and the most popular fuel (NG) has also had it's issues reaching places at the needed volume. The excess capacity works in the heat, not so much when it's cold. Why is that I wonder?
In 4-5 years, all of this will be largely forgotten from an industry perspective and "we" don't want to pay for the insurance. Heated wind turbine blades, annually winterized and tested plant gear, etc.
No different than my business... companies hate spending money on disaster recovery sites/high availability gear as it's insurance, just in case...The smart ones practice/test, annually. When something happens and they need it, it's worth it's weight in gold. Others half-[censored] it to make a check mark, and when they need to actually do it, they struggle. I think the latter identifies our current state of affairs.
As battery technology improves, I do think it will be interesting to see how home power storage (and even grid storage at some point) changes this for those that can invest in it. Ours has been mostly on/off hourly since Monday I guess, with storage capability here, might not even notice.
Charlie 100% The lynch mod wanted go after anyone, it didn't have to be the right one.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Guy]
#8173475
02/17/21 06:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16,812
S.A. hunter
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Yep, My BIL said windmills weren't the cause, but it their failure didn't help the matter. Also power plants were advised to inclose vulnerable instruments, and values back in 2011.....but it wasn't done.. As far as the lack of NG I dont know what caused that.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173477
02/17/21 06:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
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Who wants to build a half million to a million dollar power plant that may not be needed for another 5 years. The answer, a lot of corporations, because we the utility customers will pay for them to sit there, and they will make a profit while being semi idle. But the powers to be will fix the "problem", and you and I will fund the fix.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173478
02/17/21 06:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,466
ndhunter
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There were issues with every source and most of the issues were related to the cold weather and not an over reliance on wind turbines or solar IMO. If they do not have enough surplus capacity to allow for the use of alternatives then that is a model that needs to be reviewed or "investigated". This is Texas, we should be able to do both. Texas counts on wind to meet only 10% of its winter capacity, according to the state’s grid manager. Natural gas and coal make up the lion’s share, comprising 82%. Sure, some wind turbines glitched under cold weather conditions, but so did natural gas- and coal-fired power. That is partly because water intake facilities froze for these generators, just as they did in the last extreme winter seen in February 2011. At least some natural gas had to be redirected for heating rather than power, adding to the supply shortage. https://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-b...500788?mod=searchresults_pos5&page=1
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173480
02/17/21 06:34 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 2,420
yotehater
Veteran Tracker
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How much electricity are all of those millions of street lights using? Some things are just a convenience. Turn them off.
One shot is all it should take.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Guy]
#8173510
02/17/21 06:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,466
ndhunter
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Politics will be involved to resolve the problems with reliability but hopefully politics will not sidetrack the review process. Texas is an energy giant. This shouldn’t happen here. We have a large and diverse energy supply. The culprit here is a clear failure of preparation, period.
The blame game is already falling into predictable narratives. On the right, the problem is too much reliance on renewable energy. On the left, it’s privatization, Republican leadership and a failure to anticipate the effects of climate change. There’s some truth in most of it, but the focus needs to be on specific actions that were not taken, who’s responsible for them and how to prevent them from happening again. Solve specific problems rather than railing at huge ones.
It seems apparent that power generators haven’t done enough to winterize their plants, so shutdowns and failures kicked in just when the power was needed most. That extends to renewables, too, as wind turbines froze over. Natural gas transmission has been a problem as well.
These are big, but fixable, problems. The Legislature must dig in to identify the specifics and then act accordingly. A law enacted in 2011 gave the Public Utility Commission power to require generators to report on their abnormal weather preparations and file an emergency plan. Has that been done, and if preparations were inadequate, why didn’t anyone step in? Perhaps regulators need more enforcement teeth. That’s always a tough sell in Texas, but it’s clear these companies need a nudge, and perhaps help paying the bills.
It’ll be all too easy to forget this dreadful week when spring arrives. But it’s not just the occasional winter storm. Every summer, our power supply and grid are stressed by the extensive heat. We haven’t seen this level of failure yet during a summer, but it’s coming. https://www.star-telegram.com/opinion/editorials/article249285685.html
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173535
02/17/21 07:14 PM
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 339
Phlash
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 339 |
The Texas Public Utlities Commission needs the rethink its stand on renewable power. For each megawatt of renewable power should have a megawatt of backup power. We used to call this "spinning reserves". This meant that there had to be a combustion turbine plant with capacity available to backup the wind or turbine plants quickly. Coal and old water tube boilers cannot be brought online fast enough to catch wind power as it fails. The philosophy for backup power changed a few years ago. I don't know the politics behind it, but you can bet this will be looked at again. Hopefully it will change the speed in which we move to more renewable power without backup power. I am not surprised that there was gas delivery issues, after a few years of $40 oil and $2.50 gas. These companies have been gutted and are now patched together. Maintenance $ is always cut during the lean years. This too will be looked at and some changes will be made until it happens again.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: CharlieCTx]
#8173598
02/17/21 07:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,876
blanked
Pro Tracker
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[quote=CharlieCTx]I can appreciate there are the popular topics to shake your fist at. This is simply a mechanical problem (stuff is broken or frozen) as it wasn't properly equipped/prepped and the most popular fuel (NG) has also had it's issues reaching places at the needed volume. The excess capacity works in the heat, not so much when it's cold. Why is that I wonder?
In 4-5 years, all of this will be largely forgotten from an industry perspective and "we" don't want to pay for the insurance. Heated wind turbine blades, annually winterized and tested plant gear, etc.
No different than my business... companies hate spending money on disaster recovery sites/high availability gear as it's insurance, just in case...The smart ones practice/test, annually. When something happens and they need it, it's worth it's weight in gold. Others half-[censored] it to make a check mark, and when they need to actually do it, they struggle. I think the latter identifies our current state of affairs.
As battery technology improves, I do think it will be interesting to see how home power storage (and even grid storage at some point) changes this for those that can invest in it. Ours has been mostly on/off hourly since Monday I guess, with storage capability here, might not even notice.
Charlie
I dont beleive this. The power grid problem is the same as the water supply and the roads. Nothing was designed to take on the massive increase of people moving here year after year when they were built. Texas isnt keeping up with the migration . Same problem cali has in the summer with there power grid. You dont rely on any capacity when its running at 98% all the time
Last edited by blanked; 02/17/21 07:49 PM.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: HWY_MAN]
#8173602
02/17/21 07:53 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,023
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,023 |
Okay, but if the power plants can't provide the energy they are supposed to whos at fault? Well about 25 to 30 percent of our power is supplied by Wind Turbines. From the ranch I can see hundreds of them and not a one was operating and I'm hearing the same from other area's. Relying on a unreliable source is the problem and those who made that decision are at fault, in my opinion. We can easily produce more electricity than the state will ever need right here in the Permian Basin, trying to put a generation plant in is a whole different story, look how long it's been since the last refinery was built and put into operation. I wish TX would just tell the Fed's to go pound sand and do what we know needs to be done. NG fired Turbines are the way to go. Absolutely agree 100%. I have worked in several NG powered plants in the Winter (including the Permian Basin), and EVERY deep water Oil & Gas Production Platform in the GOM is primarily powered by NG fed Solar Turbine Generators. Runs off the gas that comes straight out of Mother Earth. Have a lot of experience in this area. They are extremely efficient, and run extremely clean. ZERO harm to the environment, regardless of what these democrats and their propaganda machine feed the populace. Like I've said before on a different thread, "Green Energy" as a primary source and the regulations crammed down our throats in the name of "Climate Change" is not only ignorant, it's a full blown scam that is making a lot of politicians richer while hurting "We The People". Prime example is what is happening RIGHT NOW. Never even been to one but I've been interested in them for some time now. Properly set up they produce electricity in two way. One is directly from the spinning turbine and the other is from the heat coming from the turbine (around 600 degree's) is used for steam generated electricity increasing their efficiency. When you look at the history of gas turbine generation you find interesting bits of info. One of the oldest ones was decommissioned after almost a 65 year run, not because of turbine failure but due to generator failure. Unlike other generation systems that take a considerable time to get up to operating speed the turbines are operating as soon as they start up. They can also be trailer mounted and used as a temporary system or back up. I just don't see a reasonable argument against them. Yes Sir, Gas Turbine Generators use their exhaust to run Steam Generators for free. Most generator "Trains" in power plants consist of two (GE or Solar brand) Gas Turbine Generators who's exhaust runs one Steam Generator. Most of these big GTG's can run off of natural gas or diesel if they have to. They do burn a lot of fuel when they have to run on diesel though. On NG they are way more efficient. These units are built to run and run and run....
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: S.A. hunter]
#8173631
02/17/21 08:18 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 28,023
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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My BIL said the last time they had shed load was in 2011, their finding were for power plants to move all crucial equipment to an enclosed area...... the plant owners bitched about how much it would cost......and here we are. I got to think they will be forced to now.
The good thing is San Antonio is in defrost mode now. Hopefully the rest of the state will be able to get above freezing. Does you BIL work for ERCOT? I would like to know what equipment they are talking about, curious. Most critical systems have numerous forms of protection.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173633
02/17/21 08:18 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 5,929
Ol Thumper
THF Trophy Hunter
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The steam coming from our local power plant never slowed down, then again we never lost power either so I guess they didn’t have any issues. They shut down all the local big manufacturing plants as well so this area didn’t have many blackouts at all with most never loosing power.
I’m thinking we’re all going to crap the bed when we get our electricity bills from this mess though,
Last edited by Ol Thumper; 02/17/21 08:19 PM.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Buzzsaw]
#8173695
02/17/21 08:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,636
Greg
THF Celebrity
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“If this is legit”, then someone needs to be fired. Period. There was a decision made in Texas somewhere, and it screwed us all.
Last edited by Greg; 02/17/21 09:18 PM.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: blanked]
#8173743
02/17/21 09:26 PM
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 4,091
CharlieCTx
Extreme Tracker
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Posts: 4,091 |
[ I dont beleive this. The power grid problem is the same as the water supply and the roads. Nothing was designed to take on the massive increase of people moving here year after year when they were built. Texas isnt keeping up with the migration . Same problem cali has in the summer with there power grid. You dont rely on any capacity when its running at 98% all the time
40% of the "thermal" generation (NG, Nuclear, Coal) is not working right now. Everything is not running flat out, well covered in the news. Charlie
Kel-Tec RFB + Griffin Sportsman Ultra Light 300 + Pulsar Apex XQ-50 M&P-10 + AAC Cyclone Remy 700 + Leupold VX3 3.5x10x50 CDS
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Greg]
#8173761
02/17/21 09:37 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16,812
S.A. hunter
THF Celebrity
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“If this is legit”, then someone needs to be fired. Period. There was a decision made in Texas somewhere, and it screwed us all. Someone always has to be fired, or a lawsuit needs to be filed....... its the American way.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: S.A. hunter]
#8173769
02/17/21 09:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 795
BbarVRanch
Tracker
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Tracker
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Someone always has to be fired, or a lawsuit needs to be filed....... its the American way.
I vote for a gallows. It's the Texas way.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: S.A. hunter]
#8173784
02/17/21 10:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 10,636
Greg
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Someone always has to be fired, or a lawsuit needs to be filed....... its the American way.
It is this time. We can plainly see the entire outline of Texas on that map. Our bordering states don’t seem to have that problem we do. So that means someone in Texas decided to run things a certain way. And that way sucked compared to how the other states did it. So yeah, I do think someone needs to be fired over this one.
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Re: ERCOT SUKS
[Re: Greg]
#8173786
02/17/21 10:05 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 16,812
S.A. hunter
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 16,812 |
Someone always has to be fired, or a lawsuit needs to be filed....... its the American way.
It is this time. We can plainly see the entire outline of Texas on that map. Our bordering states don’t seem to have that problem we do. So that means someone in Texas decided to run things a certain way. And that way sucked compared to how the other states did it. So yeah, I do think someone needs to be fired over this one. Texas has its own grid. There are only 2-3 in the lower 48.......
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