That puts him top 10-15 whitetails of all time, and would be the largest typical whitetail deer ever killed in the entire Southern US.

Hope he makes it, would love to see pics of it.

Absolutely. We feel zero pressure. I have years I don’t take a deer and the last one I took wasn’t the biggest I could have taken but was the one I liked the most. Age and feed is all that is require well and plenty of fun in Old Mexico

I also have a place at home that is all about fun and kids and helping other learn and enjoy. Absolutely the rule there is have fun

To be honest he may never get shot. Everyone love the fact that he is spreading his genes and really enjoy watching him. To put into perspective he should be about 220-230lbs here also

Absolute stud, and beautiful rack. I hope he spreads his genes all over! You guys have some serious restraint!

It gets surreal reading these threads. Nothing bad and not knocking anything or anyone, but still surreal to me.

Giant beasts of whitetails that may be among the biggest ever killed on LF places that no one is shooting so that they can: 1)get older and/or 2)spread their genes.

Don’t you sometimes wonder why you are investing all this hard work, money, and passing deer if you are not going to shoot the best results you are getting from all that hard work, money, and passing deer?

Don’t get me wrong - I pass lots of deer on my LF place hoping they will survive and grow. I don’t shoot a buck every year or even every other year even though I could. But I will shoot a buck when he gets to no argument age and trophy status for my area. That’s what I pass them for in the first place.

Not being allowed to shoot a 200+ inch deer would make me wonder what are we sacrificing for in the first place? So he spreads his genes? For what? To make more deer that are smaller but get older that you will someday shoot? Or a deer or two that are as big as him that you won’t shoot - so they can spread their genes and (again) make more deer that are smaller but you let get older so you will shoot them? See my point? Seems like it all becomes circular and many places have become as much zoos as they are hunting leases if the biggest deer produced are not taken. In fact, it seems like often it becomes a big point of pride NOT to shoot the biggest deer on the place even after they reach maturity. Which apparently many believe makes them a better hunter or more appreciative of big deer or more mature/further along on the hunting and conservation spectrum or whatever.... It just seems surreal to me.

Again, y’all’s money and y’all’s rules. I’m not knocking or bashing. It just wouldn’t be for me. I would never hunt a place I can’t shoot a deer that’s at least 5, over 200”, and the biggest deer on the place. I love watching deer as much as the next guy but at the end of the day I am a hunter who hunts for big deer.

I agree to a lot of this. I was excited to shoot the buck I did this year. Other than some corn these deer we hunt are mostly all natural for lack of a better term. They get mostly native pecans and acorns and it wet years lots of grass. It seems to me if you are paying that kind of money to feed them protein and such year round to grow the biggest you can shoot it. Kind of funny, but hunting and fishing used to be what all us poor rednecks did for fun and now they are both starting to become a rich man's sport.

He won’t be off limits once he hits our age rule. That rule is just that though and there are no exceptions no matter the deer. You start down a bad path once you make an exception and it’s easy to jeopardize all your hard work. Many won’t understand but to some the process and results are just as satisfying as the trigger.

I would love to take the deer and actually have mentioned to our group I think this will be his best year but I agreed to the rules and have zero issue with watching him continue on

Yeah, there are lots of things which some don't or refuse to understand.

I’m pretty sure I understand the process behind being uber-selective because the means are as important (possibly moreso) as the ends. Just like I understand the process of shooting every legal deer you see because the ends are as important (possibly moreso) as the means.

I just don’t fall at either end of the spectrum.

IMO your age rule is an unnecessary hindrance in the case of a 200” deer that’s mature. Especially if you think its his best year. I get that the process may be best 98% of the time, but there are exceptions. I liken it to a guy seeing a great bird dog outperforming every other dog he has ever seen in his life but refusing to buy it because his process is to only buy pedigreed dogs and that one isn’t. At that point the process has become self-defeating.

Really, I’m just trying to wrap my mind around not shooting a legit 200” whitetail - whatever the reason.

Well just because I think it doesn’t mean much really haha. I’m sure everyone else disagrees since just about every buck has had his best set at 7+. There are exceptions to that of course but rules don’t get broken. Once you do that everyone is looking for an exception for the next big bucks and where does that stop and at what age and score limits then? Then there is new rules to clarify that. Much better to just leave it as is and enjoy. We all have no issue at all as someone is still taking their best deer ever each year

Beautiful buck with great symmetry. What do you put his typical 10 point frame gross score at?

I can suggest the “exception” parameters though real easily: 5 years and 200 inches.

203-205 and 1-3” in deductions. Bad thing for the big framey deer is they can lose quite bit during the drying time before official scoring. Very unlikely at least right now that he could stay over 200” net for an official score

I could see the 201-205" gross(86" or so of typical tines and 115" or so of down frame) on his 10 pt frame but a few more inches of deducts(3"-5") on his typical frame than you. Which puts him just under 200" on his net typical frame. Then those 8"-9" of NT points drop him down to 190"+ or so net typical...which is huge for a 10pt with those 2 NT deducts. He looks like a 5 yr old in that one pic to me...except for the loose skin under his jaw making him look 6. I would still give him a pass as a 5 this year... no matter where he lived. They only really loose some spread and not much on the rest of the measurements after the drying period.

Oops yea you’re right he will be just over 196”. I didn’t take off 6” of NT for symmetry. He’s been darted and scored already though so not a whole lot of guessing left on him. Before that I shorted his overall gross by about 5”. I’m hoping he cleans up as he no NT until this year but likely he will just add some if past deer are any indication

Not toward bphillips, tlf, or anyone else who follows this routine -- I appreciate the like mindedness that you have going as a group and with your landowner. The issue I have is the "lease" portion of the setup doing this. I will never own 2000-4000 acres unless I hit the lottery, and that is minimum size to try this on for LF. That means I need to lease, and that's where things get dicey. I'd want a 20 year lease agreement with reasonable inflation adjustments to keep the land owner from either 1.) jacking up the price significantly once a dozen 180+ bucks are running around, or 2.) putting it out for bid once a shorter lease agreement comes to the end date.

We run 8 guys and 8000ac. Our landowner is amazing and it’s not his only place but they all require a certain level of improvement and you’re good. He doesn’t want new groups as it’s more headache for him and he wants his ranches to be top producers so last thing he wants to chance is one or two bad groups. The place had 180+ history when we took it over and we pay a premium (for Mexico) to keep from having an increase anytime soon. We still make improvements on our own that don’t just include growing deer also. We are pretty lucky

Tlew, you have a logical and valid point. It takes a special situation to make these situations work in a "lease" setting so it is certainly not realistic to attempt it for most. I think these guys know there is never a guarantee their work will continue to pay off but they likely feel good about their situation or they wouldnt be doing it.

We just reupped our lease for 6 years. Starts March 1.

I dont know why but that just kind of ruins it for me.

+1. I wasn’t going to say anything but since you did......

Only thing it changes are the guesses. Program stays the same

It’s not for everyone. For this reason people are pretty well vetted before being allowed to join and are made well aware of all the place requires.

I couldn’t have it as my only place so I have a family place at home that isn’t so in depth and hardcore about the management. Both tons of fun in their own way

Well if ya darted him I sure hope you pulled some straws off him and bring those genes back to TX

Haha no but not a bad idea