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Guadalupe county numbers down? #8150578 02/01/21 01:03 AM
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We are on an MLD property in Guadalupe county, this was our 11th season.
The amount of deer seen by all of the hunters I visit with are down as is the quality of the bucks.
I have heard from a taxidermist in the area that he has seen a lot less bucks this season as well.
And reportedly a few other places in the area report the same.

Anyone here hunt the same county (we are between Seguin and Stockdale)?

I have to wonder we had a die off, been pretty dry, the tanks have all been very low all year..

Just curious


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8150889 02/01/21 10:35 AM
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Was not the best of years' rain wise, but I ain't heard of no die off.

Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8151253 02/01/21 04:55 PM
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My parents and most of my family live in Guadalupe county, have a lot of friends that live and hunt in Guadalupe county. I've seen some nice deer photos passed around from the county this year and none of them had anything to say about an abnormally bad year etc. To me you probably just had a slow season.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8152271 02/02/21 01:22 PM
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gotcha
thanks


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8152375 02/02/21 02:45 PM
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ccoker, I have a couple friends that hunt on a lease just south of Seguin on the river and they said the same thing.
Corn piled up all under their feeders. They had plenty of nice deer on game cam all summer though so they think it was just a slow season due to them having way too many acorns this year on their place.

They had one that I think would push 160 and a couple other 140-150" deer and they never laid eyes on any of them and didn't even get pics of the big one after they shed velvet.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ILUVBIGBUCKS] #8152971 02/02/21 09:56 PM
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Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8153642 02/03/21 12:49 PM
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I have been there when the deer seemed to just disappear ...when we had acorns everywhere we had to turn off our feeders as nothing was eating the corn. This went on throughout the season ..however, we did start to see deer at the end of deer season. When we had the problem of over harvesting our problem was not as bad as the acorn thing. The deer still ate the corn and we did see some deer. Either problem needs to be addressed by having a process to count the deer each year to keep a handle the size of the heard. If ya have a lot of acorns don't expect to see very many deer. However, take a look at the feeders late in the year when most of the acorns will be diminished.
There is something you can do to start getting pics of deer without corn. When deer are chasing does they really don't eat as much with that in mind I would concentrate of putting out a lot of scents. you should get some action like scrapes and you should also see more does and bucks. If you don't ..something else could be the problem. I have seen dogs or coyotes run deer out of the area but the cameras should help define your problem. A camera every 50 -70 acres will tell the story.
Don't give up ..keep trying whatever might help ...sooner or later it will become apparent what the problem is. Keep in touch with us as we all are interested..good luck.

Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: Texas452] #8153686 02/03/21 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?



I seriously doubt that happens very often

The folks that take the time and energy to get on MLD aren't doing it to overkill a herd


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: Texas452] #8153702 02/03/21 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

MLD tags are issued based off of survey numbers and/or data they have for that specific area. Most of the time the number of tags will be lower than what are really needed on some places. If I go to the TWIMS site and use the tag estimator for my 234 acres here in Western Goliad County it only will give me 1 doe Permit and 0 buck Permits. IIRC I have to plug in over 300 acres to get 3 doe permits and finally get 1 buck permit...to get 2 buck permits you have to have over 640 acres. Once you are under MLD then you are bound by the tags issued and cannot use any tags off of your hunting license. So in my case on my land, I could only shoot one doe and no bucks. If I used my license tags only I can shoot 2 bucks total but 1 buck over 13" and 1 unbranched(or 2 unbranched) and then 2 does either archery or general season doe days or ML season. I can shoot more deer off of my license than under MLD in my area of the county. Survey in my area shows fewer deer and lower deer density than actual numbers I see year in and year out. I have taken way more does than what the survey shows I should take and my numbers have remained steady over the last 8 yrs....the buck to doe ratio has improved.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8153707 02/03/21 01:58 PM
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I would bet that mast crop was the issue with deer sightings. I had a huge crop in back to back years....2018 and 2019 and my deer sightings were down both those years when hunting...but trail cam showed the deer were still here at the feeders at night. I had to turn down the corn feeders and I have always fed year round free choice protein...the consumption was very low but still enough to get deer on cameras.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8153740 02/03/21 02:24 PM
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I saw photos of several huge Guadalupe County bucks - all North of Geronimo. One was a multi-pointed freak taken by a lady hunter with a bow by York Creek or Alligator Creek (just can't recall) and another was a 160 plus monster arrowed just east of there.

Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: Hudbone] #8153745 02/03/21 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
I saw photos of several huge Guadalupe County bucks - all North of Geronimo. One was a multi-pointed freak taken by a lady hunter with a bow by York Creek or Alligator Creek (just can't recall) and another was a 160 plus monster arrowed just east of there.

I got a picture of the nontypical also. Any idea if it is legit? A buddy sent me the pic, but i swore i had seen it before?


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: stxranchman] #8153747 02/03/21 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

MLD tags are issued based off of survey numbers and/or data they have for that specific area. Most of the time the number of tags will be lower than what are really needed on some places. If I go to the TWIMS site and use the tag estimator for my 234 acres here in Western Goliad County it only will give me 1 doe Permit and 0 buck Permits. IIRC I have to plug in over 300 acres to get 3 doe permits and finally get 1 buck permit...to get 2 buck permits you have to have over 640 acres. Once you are under MLD then you are bound by the tags issued and cannot use any tags off of your hunting license. So in my case on my land, I could only shoot one doe and no bucks. If I used my license tags only I can shoot 2 bucks total but 1 buck over 13" and 1 unbranched(or 2 unbranched) and then 2 does either archery or general season doe days or ML season. I can shoot more deer off of my license than under MLD in my area of the county. Survey in my area shows fewer deer and lower deer density than actual numbers I see year in and year out. I have taken way more does than what the survey shows I should take and my numbers have remained steady over the last 8 yrs....the buck to doe ratio has improved.

Can you look at this TWIMS site for all Texas Counties? I bet we took 4-5 times what they say we could on our 320 acres lol.... and we still have too many deer.

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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8153750 02/03/21 02:28 PM
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I have definitely seen the mast crop effect before there..
I don't think it is a mast crop event..
Honestly, I think the surveys are wrong and we have over harvested over the years..
It's been a decline the last few years..


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8153751 02/03/21 02:28 PM
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Definitely legit. Taken somewhere out by the NB airport.

Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: redchevy] #8153755 02/03/21 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

MLD tags are issued based off of survey numbers and/or data they have for that specific area. Most of the time the number of tags will be lower than what are really needed on some places. If I go to the TWIMS site and use the tag estimator for my 234 acres here in Western Goliad County it only will give me 1 doe Permit and 0 buck Permits. IIRC I have to plug in over 300 acres to get 3 doe permits and finally get 1 buck permit...to get 2 buck permits you have to have over 640 acres. Once you are under MLD then you are bound by the tags issued and cannot use any tags off of your hunting license. So in my case on my land, I could only shoot one doe and no bucks. If I used my license tags only I can shoot 2 bucks total but 1 buck over 13" and 1 unbranched(or 2 unbranched) and then 2 does either archery or general season doe days or ML season. I can shoot more deer off of my license than under MLD in my area of the county. Survey in my area shows fewer deer and lower deer density than actual numbers I see year in and year out. I have taken way more does than what the survey shows I should take and my numbers have remained steady over the last 8 yrs....the buck to doe ratio has improved.

Can you look at this TWIMS site for all Texas Counties? I bet we took 4-5 times what they say we could on our 320 acres lol.... and we still have too many deer.

https://lma.tpwd.state.tx.us/
Scroll down and see Tag Estimator. Then click on "Estimate Tags" tab. Then follow the instructions.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8153765 02/03/21 02:34 PM
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Thanks, im gonna check it out.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: Hudbone] #8153770 02/03/21 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Definitely legit. Taken somewhere out by the NB airport.

Definitely a Hoss for the area or anywhere really then. Loosely know a few folks that have acreage around there and did the appraisals for the airport expansion a few years ago... never would have guessed something like that was walking around out there.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: stxranchman] #8153778 02/03/21 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by redchevy
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

MLD tags are issued based off of survey numbers and/or data they have for that specific area. Most of the time the number of tags will be lower than what are really needed on some places. If I go to the TWIMS site and use the tag estimator for my 234 acres here in Western Goliad County it only will give me 1 doe Permit and 0 buck Permits. IIRC I have to plug in over 300 acres to get 3 doe permits and finally get 1 buck permit...to get 2 buck permits you have to have over 640 acres. Once you are under MLD then you are bound by the tags issued and cannot use any tags off of your hunting license. So in my case on my land, I could only shoot one doe and no bucks. If I used my license tags only I can shoot 2 bucks total but 1 buck over 13" and 1 unbranched(or 2 unbranched) and then 2 does either archery or general season doe days or ML season. I can shoot more deer off of my license than under MLD in my area of the county. Survey in my area shows fewer deer and lower deer density than actual numbers I see year in and year out. I have taken way more does than what the survey shows I should take and my numbers have remained steady over the last 8 yrs....the buck to doe ratio has improved.

Can you look at this TWIMS site for all Texas Counties? I bet we took 4-5 times what they say we could on our 320 acres lol.... and we still have too many deer.

https://lma.tpwd.state.tx.us/
Scroll down and see Tag Estimator. Then click on "Estimate Tags" tab. Then follow the instructions.

Ha, I mapped ours, it allots 1 doe tag and no buck tags for our 320 acres. We shot 10 deer, mostly does this year. We are LF and feed what i would think is a significant amount for our acreage, about 20K lbs or a little more protein and corn combined all year and our native browse is still hit very hard right now. We have been shooting 10-12 deer a year for a decade and haven't noticed a drop in the deer. None of the neighbors kill does.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8154206 02/03/21 06:41 PM
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interesting on the tag estimator
does it account for wide open fields vs thick woods?


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8154229 02/03/21 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by ccoker
interesting on the tag estimator
does it account for wide open fields vs thick woods?


Im not positive but pretty sure it does not. I mapped a bunch of random areas just curious. I did the metroplex and it treated it just like hunting country. I assume TPWD has survey information(bashed in another thread) for a Region or county and applies that to everything in that area. Pretty sure on other MLD plans you can get more site specific survey information. Im curious if anyone can correct me, im all ears.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8154253 02/03/21 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ccoker
interesting on the tag estimator
does it account for wide open fields vs thick woods?


Yes and No. If you put in the boundary of the property you are hunting, then it includes all the acreage in that boundary. So if you are 50% cover and 50% open then it estimates the tags for your property based off of the county numbers for that area. It is based off of population for a large area of that part of the county where the ranch is located at not your specific property....just the an area that property is located in. I think they use like habitat areas or acreages in an area to get closer numbers, but still not 100% accurate. There are going to be variances in habitat even in an area but most will be similar. There are two options in MLD...Harvest and Conservation. One option allows you to plug in your acreage and get the permits based off of the estimator....no sight evaluation or no surveys or no record keeping. You either like the tags estimated go into the program or don't, opting out. While the other option is more in depth and hands on by both parties...TPWD and LO. More detail management plan, harvest goals, date kept, etc.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: stxranchman] #8154456 02/03/21 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

MLD tags are issued based off of survey numbers and/or data they have for that specific area. Most of the time the number of tags will be lower than what are really needed on some places. If I go to the TWIMS site and use the tag estimator for my 234 acres here in Western Goliad County it only will give me 1 doe Permit and 0 buck Permits. IIRC I have to plug in over 300 acres to get 3 doe permits and finally get 1 buck permit...to get 2 buck permits you have to have over 640 acres. Once you are under MLD then you are bound by the tags issued and cannot use any tags off of your hunting license. So in my case on my land, I could only shoot one doe and no bucks. If I used my license tags only I can shoot 2 bucks total but 1 buck over 13" and 1 unbranched(or 2 unbranched) and then 2 does either archery or general season doe days or ML season. I can shoot more deer off of my license than under MLD in my area of the county. Survey in my area shows fewer deer and lower deer density than actual numbers I see year in and year out. I have taken way more does than what the survey shows I should take and my numbers have remained steady over the last 8 yrs....the buck to doe ratio has improved.

We run into this same dynamic on the Pitchfork.......not enough buck or doe tags for the amount of deer we have.....


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: Pitchfork Predator] #8154513 02/03/21 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Pitchfork Predator
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas452
Are too many deer being taken because of mld tags?

MLD tags are issued based off of survey numbers and/or data they have for that specific area. Most of the time the number of tags will be lower than what are really needed on some places. If I go to the TWIMS site and use the tag estimator for my 234 acres here in Western Goliad County it only will give me 1 doe Permit and 0 buck Permits. IIRC I have to plug in over 300 acres to get 3 doe permits and finally get 1 buck permit...to get 2 buck permits you have to have over 640 acres. Once you are under MLD then you are bound by the tags issued and cannot use any tags off of your hunting license. So in my case on my land, I could only shoot one doe and no bucks. If I used my license tags only I can shoot 2 bucks total but 1 buck over 13" and 1 unbranched(or 2 unbranched) and then 2 does either archery or general season doe days or ML season. I can shoot more deer off of my license than under MLD in my area of the county. Survey in my area shows fewer deer and lower deer density than actual numbers I see year in and year out. I have taken way more does than what the survey shows I should take and my numbers have remained steady over the last 8 yrs....the buck to doe ratio has improved.

We run into this same dynamic on the Pitchfork.......not enough buck or doe tags for the amount of deer we have.....

Pitch, I used the tag estimator just in arbitrary areas of the State out of curiosity and one I looked at was your general area. It was one I was surprised by. No doubt theres lots of challenges with making survey estimates over large areas without being site specific.


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Re: Guadalupe county numbers down? [Re: ccoker] #8154789 02/04/21 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by ccoker
I have definitely seen the mast crop effect before there..
I don't think it is a mast crop event..
Honestly, I think the surveys are wrong and we have over harvested over the years..
It's been a decline the last few years..


It happened to us they would tell us there were more deer than the year before but we all knew they were full of it.
The herd was decimated by over harvest.

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