You're suggesting a bullet is on the fall at 100 yards then.

That is 100% false. Center fire rifles rise from muzzle to 100 yards, and fall after 100 yards.

Ahh, was reading on my phone, misunderstood.

The leaving at the top of the wave is exactly the point, though. It controls for this wacky idea of wildly shifting POI due to harmonics. Two loads that seem to agree with the harmonics of the barrel should have the same POI according to JG, right?

How do you figure? This entire thread I've been talking about short ranges where the bullet is still rising.

And you realize you can have a sharper trajectory than just having a 100yd zero be the apex of travel right? My M16A4, for example, has a 36/300 zero, and shoots several inches high at 100 yards.

Because you said the slower bullet will be higher than the faster bullet. That would be you suggesting the bullet was on the fall inside 100 yards. It is not.

Go back and re-read me telling you about the "MOA Walk back".

That rifle I learned it on, 7 yard correction was the same as 875 yard correction. Almost everything out there, to hit perfect at 50 yards, is exactly the same correction to hit perfect at 200 yards. Sight height has a whole lot to do with it. In fact that is most of it.

Yes, that's exactly what I said. When the bullets are still rising, the slower bullet will be higher than the faster bullet.

At 20, 40, 60 yards?

No it won't. 2000 fps MV on the slow one, 3000 fps MV, no the slow one won't be higher. Because both of them are rising to 100 yards.

Incorrect, JG nor anyone else here has said that. Everyone here has argued that, due to harmonics, the bullets could be leaving the barrel when it is at different points in the wave (top, bottom, middle or even right/left) which causes the discrepancy.....

You seem to be having a problem understanding that ballistics and harmonics are two completely different things.

Now you're starting to understand the parameters. 20, 40, and 60 yards are all excellent testing points. Go give it a shot with your two best shooting loads, 100% the slower load will print higher.

If the rifle is zeroed with both bullets i think I can see HicksHunter's side.

I have fired slower/heavier rounds out of a rifle that impacted higher at 100 yards than lighter faster bullets in the same rifle when the rifle was not individually zeroed.

My factory rem 180 grain 30-06 is zeroed at 100 yards. It is on the fall at 100 yards. It has a zero at appx 50 and 100 yards.

Back to the point the harmonics changed due to heavier bullets with a diff powder charge. What is indeterminable is measuring where the node is. You would have to replicate the exact harmonics to prove/disprove hicks theory which to me cant be done.

Ok Hicks, run your test this way and tell me what you come up with:
Same gun. Light fast bullet first. Zero at 25 yards. Now shoot it at 100.
Same gun. Slow heavy bullet second. Zero at 25 yards. Now shoot it at 100.
They are both starting out at the same poi before any drop occurs. If there is a difference in trajectory it will be apparent. Post your results and get back to us.

Unfortunately this is a different test under different conditions than OP was using. OP's question is essentially around firing two separate loads without changing point of aim/zeroing.

This is true. Because harmonics behave somewhat strangely, one can't say with any confidence that they have been eliminated. However, the shift in POI, rather than just group size, is so minimal as to be pointless within this discussion.

Like I mentioned earlier, how does one's load testing behave when you shoot a series of increasing powder charges? They don't string randomly up and down throughout the series of charges despite the harmonics of the barrel certainly changing. They behave very predictably, especially at close ranges. After all, why is ladder testing mostly pointless at 100 yards?

Hicks I admit it could be me, but one of us is not understanding something here.

It's definitely gotten a bit esoteric.

Well they can string randomly up and down.

And they can behave unpredictable. Even at 100 yards.

Have you load tested a rifle before? Or is all your stance based off of theory? Did you vote for Biden because he said he was going to make things better?

I'd hate to shoot your spaghetti noodle barreled rifle or awful loads if you're seeing multiple inches of POI shift at 100 yards.

For the OP, it is a crap shoot where a different load will shoot in comparison to your tried and true old favorite until you shoot it. If it groups well enough to suit you, make note of the difference in poi and you can seamlessly change loads back and forth by making the known adjustments to your sights. With today’s lack of available ammunition, lots of shooters are faced with changing loads out of necessity.

Hicks,
Yes and what I suggested will prove that your logic is incorrect. If you don’t understand why I suggested that, study on it some. With all due respect Hicks, there is a lot of experience weighing in on this thread. Too many here that have worked up and shot too many loads, light and heavy, slow and fast, in too many rifles, to not know better than to agree with what you are suggesting. First hand experience is being freely shared with you by several in this thread.

That just you put weight on the barrel and it is shooting low because of the weight.

I shoot all kinds of people's rifles.
And my loads are top of the line.
This was a test load yesterday with a cross wind. The owner of this rifle was quite happy about it.
The Proof Research barrel gets a tad hot at the third rounds and slings it a bit. Happened every time.



But please continue to feel you are educating us. And now you have FINALLY moved to insults.

You lose.

I was only responding in kind.

You still haven't provided any theoretical bais or real-world results that can explain this at close ranges. Although you're obviously stubborn enough not to try something despite ballistic calculators and the advice of another shooter, I do hope you'll give it a shot sometime in the future.

Actually they do string quite a bit at even at 100 yards. Here is 9 loads from 36.9 to 38 grains of powder. I could not find a good node in this powder range.

Damn I’m glad you found one GLC. I looked back and had deleted all mine.

Wp I do appreciate the name for that load. I am still LMAO