https://nvisionoptics.com/product/halo_xrf/

They did what they said couldn’t be done ...

BAE core with onboard recording

Also a laser range finder option

LRF is helpful for sure, the recording I'm not as big on. Hard to say if it's worth 1500-2000 extra to me personally, but value is in the eye of the beholder.

Excited to get my NOX though!

That is what you say when you don't offer the option!

The video, as I have understood it, has always been available. I just don't think Trijicon has given a hoot about improving the product. They have bigger fish to fry. N Vision on the other hand is more dependent on this product line. I do think it is an ugly scope and the LRF/recording is way overpriced.

Damn, $9500? Lol.

I think they priced themselves out of 95% of the market.

Well....

Someone could certainly buy 2 scopes for 10k and still get awesome quality and various utility from a combo of lesser priced gear.

But if someone has 10 large laying around ....

You know, I had not looked that closely, but I think you are not fully correct on the ugliness of the scope. The scope isn't just ugly, but would fall into the category of the ugliest thermal scope I have seen to date, the FLIR RS rubber box scopes. I don't know what the weird, mottled, plasticky stuff is called that the housing is made out of, but that is a material that I have come to associate with cheap products, where the material does not appear to be stable over the long haul.

So any materials specialists here? What is this plastic stuff called and is it now a really good material to be using on high end scopes?



So the top end Trijicon 60mm is priced out of 93% of the market?

The nature of marketing and consumerism is that when you have high end and expensive products, the best of the best is generally known to never going to be marketed to the masses. Nvision's thermal product line has never been for anything but the top end of the market. They can produce and compete in relative comfort of that market segment. Move down where they can capture the other 95% and they will have to compete with ATN, Pulsar, and every other johnny-come-lately thermal entry into the market. Heck, even FLIR floundered there.

Difference is Trijicon is an established player with brand loyalty and top-end reputation. Most gun people and hunters know Trijicon, very few people ever heard of Halo. Also, yes, the top end Trijicon is priced out the vast majority of market, but they can capture lower tiers with lower priced offerings. How many Mark 2's do you think they sell for every top end 60mm? I bet 3 or 4 to 1. So for $3k less you can a scope with very similar features from an established brand. So yes, they pissing away 95% of the market (probably more than that actually) and in the top end most people aren't going to drop almost $10k on a product that provides no clear improvements from a company that no one ever heard of. Just my 2 cents and I stand by my assessment, but I could be wrong. We'll see how long they are around....

Well, N-Vision isn't marketing to 95% of the market, but to a select portion at the top end of the market. They sell plenty of their Halo LRs, so I don't doubt they will sell these as well. They won't sell a million units, but they aren't going to produce a million units, either, LOL. They are niche marketing with this unit and undoubtedly will sell all that they manufacture. Like the Trijicon IR Hunter MKIII 60mm, it won't be the best value for the money, but people will love them.

The difference between N-Vision and Trijicon is that N-Vision is selling every unit it produces, enough to the point that they are introducing new models, right? They are doing very well for a company that doesn't have a big Trijicon name. When was the last time you saw a new thermal from Trijicon?

Most people don't know the history behind Trijicon thermals, either. Trijicon did not develop or really even do much to improve the various IR lines of thermal optics that came from a little known company called IR Defense that they purchased around May of 2017. By that time, the IR Defense had marketed their original (aka Mark I) scopes, Mark II scopes, and Mark III scopes for the IR Hunter, IR Patrol, Reap IR and Snipe IR.

IR Defense first released their thermal line of scopes in the fall of 2014 and before that time, Pig_Popper (in May) and I (in June) did the first reviews of the unreleased IR Hunter 320 resolution scopes that used FLIR cores.

Since purchasing IR Defense, Trijicon has pretty much coasted. They haven't introduced any really new, maybe a couple variants, but that is it. They have made some firmware updates, but nothing major. They have also redesigned battery box on the Reap IR to replace a defective design from IR Defense. N-Vision, by comparison, is being innovative.

How long have they been around? More than 13 years so far. N-vision got its start in the night vision field. So this isn't a startup company.

DNS makes great sense of what's going on here with the scope and the history behind Trijicon and N-Vision.

Guys, these high end scopes sell....they sell way better than you think they do. The difference is a huge percentage of the guys who buy them aren't spending their time on Facebook, Instagram and hunting forums posting about it. That's not a slam or an insult to any of us who do those things, it's just fact. I sell a lot of these high end optics and while you'd be shocked how many normal every day guys buy them, there are also a lot hard working wealthy people who just don't publicly post or talk about their hobbies online. And speaking of hobbies, let me compare it to this.....if a guy goes out and buys a $10,000 (or even $50,000!) bass boat people barely bat an eye. What about a guy with a membership to the country club, the latest golf cart and a set of custom clubs he's always replacing? What about the deer hunter who spends $5,000 a year on a lease that he has to drive 5 hours to and only sees 5 times a season and buys $2,000 deer stands and pours $8/sack corn out on the ground and is buying every new gadget, camo pattern, rifle, scope and ammo variation he can?ha! Everyone's hobbies are different and a lot of them are very expensive when you add up every dollar spent on it.

My point in this is, the Halo-X XFR at $9,500 isn't for everyone (nor any other of the N-Vision thermals) and neither is the Rolls Royce but they both have honed in on a sector of the market and are catering to it. N-Vision doesn't want to sell 5,000 scopes this year....they can't produce that many but they will sell every single scope they make. It kind of goes back to a certain business logic....would you rather sell 1,000 widgets for $10 of profit or 100 widgets for $100 of profit?

Just my 2 cents!

Jason

Makes sense on the economics of it for sure. Also, very true that Trijicon hasn't introduced anything particularly new either...when I bought my Mark2 about 6 years ago it was about the highest priced thermal on the market or close to it and it was under the IRD name. Any innovation is good, hope they do well.

If I was to upgrade my XP38 LRF...this would be on the list. After having the LRF for a while, you learn it's as handy as a pocket on a shirt....do you have to have it? No, but it's cool. I don't see what the big deal is...you want one buy one if you don't then don't. A buddy of mine says "Cool [censored] ain't cheap"...and he's right. We the consumers are the winners when there is competition and this is competition and pushing the bar further ahead.

I like it.

Ain't that the truth....I use that line to my wife when I'm car shopping.