texashuntingforum.com logo
Main Menu
Advertisement
Affiliates
Advertisement
Newest Members
CoLe1969, DemoMan, Runnincarz, 5H Livestock, Charlejack
68312 Registered Users
Top Posters(All Time)
dogcatcher 106,961
bill oxner 82,313
stxranchman 57,307
RKHarm24 44,585
rifleman 44,461
Gravytrain 42,241
BMD 41,172
Big Orn 37,484
Forum Statistics
Forums45
Topics601,598
Posts11,281,433
Members83,312
Most Online19,184
Feb 5th, 2020
Print Thread
Interesting! #8106076 12/28/20 11:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,018
M
mikei Offline OP
THF Trophy Hunter
OP Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
M
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 6,018

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8106109 12/29/20 12:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Yessir!

They are a know carrier of brucellosis.

USDA APHIS cannot feed the needy with hogs taken for that reason, and the other 26 infectious diseases and transferable parasites on feral hogs.

If they could, they could feed the homeless camps in Austin... grin

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8106303 12/29/20 02:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 8,269
B
Biscuit Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
B
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 8,269
👍

Re: Interesting! [Re: BbarVRanch] #8106620 12/29/20 02:36 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
A couple hundred people a year get brucellosis. In the past, the numbers of cases were a much bigger issue because cattle carry it and were not really inspected for it or treated for it.

Originally Posted by BbarVRanch
Yessir!

They are a know carrier of brucellosis.

USDA APHIS cannot feed the needy with hogs taken for that reason, and the other 26 infectious diseases and transferable parasites on feral hogs.

If they could, they could feed the homeless camps in Austin... grin


Hogs are not particularly significant carriers of infectious diseases and transferable parasites compared to any other mammal we use for meat. Most everything that they carrier is carried by cattle, for example. Most cases of brucellosis, for example, don't come from hogs, but from handling cattle and cattle products, particularly unpasteurized milk products. Another is the consumption of undercooked meat that has it. Still another place people sometimes get it is from their own dogs, dogs being known carriers of brucellosis.

If the USDA cannot feed with needy with hogs because of brucellosis, then they cannot do it with cattle, goat, or sheep either because they known carriers. So, being carriers isn't the issue to why pigs can be used to feed the needy. That is a myth.

In reality, they can feed hogs to the homeless, just like the other meats. HOWEVER, laws stipulate that meats distributed for non-personal (aka public) consumption must pass a pre and post mortem inspection process. So you can trap feral hogs all day long and go through the same inspection process as you would for beef or mutton.

While the USDA does not have a lot of regulations on wildlife, it should also be noted that most everything carried by hogs is also carried by deer. Deer are KNOWN carriers of brucellosis. https://www.cdc.gov/brucellosis/exposure/hunters.html

In general, hogs are no more dangerous when it comes to zoonoses than they other types of mammals we typically consume. They are all dangerous if handled incorrectly


Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8106653 12/29/20 03:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
A couple hundred people a year get brucellosis. In the past, the numbers of cases were a much bigger issue because cattle carry it and were not really inspected for it or treated for it.

Originally Posted by BbarVRanch
Yessir!

They are a know carrier of brucellosis.

USDA APHIS cannot feed the needy with hogs taken for that reason, and the other 26 infectious diseases and transferable parasites on feral hogs.

If they could, they could feed the homeless camps in Austin... grin


Hogs are not particularly significant carriers of infectious diseases and transferable parasites compared to any other mammal we use for meat. Most everything that they carrier is carried by cattle, for example. Most cases of brucellosis, for example, don't come from hogs, but from handling cattle and cattle products, particularly unpasteurized milk products. Another is the consumption of undercooked meat that has it. Still another place people sometimes get it is from their own dogs, dogs being known carriers of brucellosis.

If the USDA cannot feed with needy with hogs because of brucellosis, then they cannot do it with cattle, goat, or sheep either because they known carriers. So, being carriers isn't the issue to why pigs can be used to feed the needy. That is a myth.

In reality, they can feed hogs to the homeless, just like the other meats. HOWEVER, laws stipulate that meats distributed for non-personal (aka public) consumption must pass a pre and post mortem inspection process. So you can trap feral hogs all day long and go through the same inspection process as you would for beef or mutton.

While the USDA does not have a lot of regulations on wildlife, it should also be noted that most everything carried by hogs is also carried by deer. Deer are KNOWN carriers of brucellosis. https://www.cdc.gov/brucellosis/exposure/hunters.html

In general, hogs are no more dangerous when it comes to zoonoses than they other types of mammals we typically consume. They are all dangerous if handled incorrectly


Be that as it may, I am not just guessing about this stuff. While all known wildlife carries something, USDA APHIS cannot feed needy folks feral hogs they trap or shoot. Specifically for reasons already stated.

I should know, since I was a govt. hunter, and reviewed the directives personally.

Aside from that, the local game processing place condemns over 25% of feral hogs brought in to be processed. Owner said it doesn't make many of the hunters happy, but the processor has the final say.

State game wardens are free to give wild game to needy per TPWD policy.

Years ago, I had a friend who was a USDA meat inspector. Packing company in Ingram, TX and they had a mobile kill floor. They would go out at night and shoot exotic deer, and field process them, hang them in the cooler, and pass USDA inspection right there in the field. A USDA meat inspector has to observe the animal alive as well as postmortem to pass inspection. It was a pretty neat setup. I got to go shoot a couple of times. They used a suppressed .308.

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8107714 12/30/20 05:26 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Quote
Be that as it may, I am not just guessing about this stuff. While all known wildlife carries something, USDA APHIS cannot feed needy folks feral hogs they trap or shoot


They can for trapped hogs that they inspect pre mortem and then post mortem (that pass inspection), but they may choose not to do so. It isn't illegal. They may have their own policy against it, but "will not" is not the same as "can not." They cannot donate hogs they just shoot unless the hog were inspected pre mortem and dispatched by shooting after passing the inspection, because that would be against the law, right?

With that said, USDA APHIS is the inspection service. They inspect feral hogs just like they inspect regular domestic hogs. Might I turn your attention to this thread on feral hog buying stations?
https://texashuntingforum.com/forum...d-feral-swine-buying-stations#Post310721

Here is the current list of buying station from Oct of 2020...
https://www.tahc.texas.gov/animal_health/swine/FeralSwineFacilities.pdf

Why do you think those buying stations are in operation? They are in operation to take live feral hogs, inspect, slaughter, inspect and the sell the meat commercially to the public. They could choose to give the meat to the needy, or trappers could pay to have their hogs processed for them and then the trappers could donate the properly inspected meat to those in need if they so desired. It isn't cheap, but it isn't illegal.

While I am at it, let me draw your attention to...

Quote
In order to be slaughtered and sold in commerce for human food, feral swine in the U.S. (Sus scrofa) are to be slaughtered and
processed under inspection according to the Federal Meat Inspection Act (21 U.S.C., sec. 601) and are to
be labeled as “pork” or “meat from feral swine”

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/125666f7-f511-44b0-b3a4-90b981f010de/78-16.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Now, this meat does not have to be sold. You can give it to the needy if one is so inclined. By law, for USDA APHIS to donate meat to the needy, they would have to follow the same government regulations as anyone else who wants to donate feral hog meat. It is going to cost them time and $$ to do that. No doubt they aren't budgeting food donation into the annual budget.

So while USDA APHIS does not donate feral hogs to the needy, they also do not sell feral hogs for profit. In general, they are not in the meat distribution business, even though they regulate it.

Quote
State game wardens are free to give wild game to needy per TPWD policy.


That apparently is true, but not really relevant given that hogs are not classified as a game animal in Texas, which I would think you would know as a former government hunter, right? Hogs are classified by TPWD as exotic livestock. So sure, a TPWD Game Warden may donate a game animal, such as a whitetail deer, to a needy family for food, but that isn't really significant given that you or I can do the same thing. That is pretty much the basis for Hunters for the Hungry. No USDA inspection is needed for wildlife such as deer because deer are not under USDA purview in this regard. I would not doubt that they can donate exotic livestock such as feral hogs to the needy as well.

Since you mentioned USDA APHIS and donation of meat, I don't see where they are donating much in the way of exotic deer meat to the needy either. Maybe you have an article on that?


Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8107763 12/30/20 11:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
Quote
Be that as it may, I am not just guessing about this stuff. While all known wildlife carries something, USDA APHIS cannot feed needy folks feral hogs they trap or shoot


They can for trapped hogs that they inspect pre mortem and then post mortem (that pass inspection), but they may choose not to do so. It isn't illegal. They may have their own policy against it, but "will not" is not the same as "can not." They cannot donate hogs they just shoot unless the hog were inspected pre mortem and dispatched by shooting after passing the inspection, because that would be against the law, right?

With that said, USDA APHIS is the inspection service. They inspect feral hogs just like they inspect regular domestic hogs. Might I turn your attention to this thread on feral hog buying stations?
https://texashuntingforum.com/forum...d-feral-swine-buying-stations#Post310721

Here is the current list of buying station from Oct of 2020...
https://www.tahc.texas.gov/animal_health/swine/FeralSwineFacilities.pdf

Why do you think those buying stations are in operation? They are in operation to take live feral hogs, inspect, slaughter, inspect and the sell the meat commercially to the public. They could choose to give the meat to the needy, or trappers could pay to have their hogs processed for them and then the trappers could donate the properly inspected meat to those in need if they so desired. It isn't cheap, but it isn't illegal.

While I am at it, let me draw your attention to...

Quote
In order to be slaughtered and sold in commerce for human food, feral swine in the U.S. (Sus scrofa) are to be slaughtered and
processed under inspection according to the Federal Meat Inspection Act (21 U.S.C., sec. 601) and are to
be labeled as “pork” or “meat from feral swine”

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/wcm/connect/125666f7-f511-44b0-b3a4-90b981f010de/78-16.pdf?MOD=AJPERES

Now, this meat does not have to be sold. You can give it to the needy if one is so inclined. By law, for USDA APHIS to donate meat to the needy, they would have to follow the same government regulations as anyone else who wants to donate feral hog meat. It is going to cost them time and $$ to do that. No doubt they aren't budgeting food donation into the annual budget.

So while USDA APHIS does not donate feral hogs to the needy, they also do not sell feral hogs for profit. In general, they are not in the meat distribution business, even though they regulate it.

Quote
State game wardens are free to give wild game to needy per TPWD policy.


That apparently is true, but not really relevant given that hogs are not classified as a game animal in Texas, which I would think you would know as a former government hunter, right? Hogs are classified by TPWD as exotic livestock. So sure, a TPWD Game Warden may donate a game animal, such as a whitetail deer, to a needy family for food, but that isn't really significant given that you or I can do the same thing. That is pretty much the basis for Hunters for the Hungry. No USDA inspection is needed for wildlife such as deer because deer are not under USDA purview in this regard. I would not doubt that they can donate exotic livestock such as feral hogs to the needy as well.

Since you mentioned USDA APHIS and donation of meat, I don't see where they are donating much in the way of exotic deer meat to the needy either. Maybe you have an article on that?




Preachin' to the choir brother.

Really not trying to start anything with you... Are you really calling me a liar for stating my former profession? Why would I lie? What's the gain? But you can believe what you want, regardless.

I'm actually a subscriber to your YouTube channel and think you make excellent night hunting videos! smile I enjoy night hunting myself, and have gotten most of the tools now, but am not much of a videographer.

USDA APHIS (ADC division) isn't the meat inspection branch. And the buying stations are Texas state animal health dept. regulated.

USDA APHIS Govt. trappers or hunters can't do anything with carcasses of anything they trap or kill, after taking the dept. required blood and tissue samples. Can't keep furs or hides or give them away either. All carcasses have to be disposed of in an approved manner, as to not pose a threat to public health. (or politics wink... they can't even take or keep photos or video of animals taken. )

That agency was gutted through the Obama years, and may not even survive the Biden years. Radically defunded... and I don't think it's gonna get better for them with the same incoming Ag. Secy that Obama had for 8 years.

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8108724 12/31/20 01:06 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
You can be wrong without being a liar.

Quote
USDA APHIS Govt. trappers or hunters can't do anything with carcasses of anything they trap or kill, after taking the dept. required blood and tissue samples. Can't keep furs or hides or give them away either. All carcasses have to be disposed of in an approved manner, as to not pose a threat to public health. (or politics wink... they can't even take or keep photos or video of animals taken. )


So it isn't just hogs? You said hogs could not be donated because of all their zoonoses, but now, none of the animals can be donated. Do they all have too many zoonoses? Of course not.

The zoonotic issue isn't why the USDA isn't donating feral hogs to the needy. After all, it is the USDA that has the established guidelines to make it possible for hogs, including feral hogs, to be distributed publicly.


Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8108889 12/31/20 03:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 172
D
Douglas Tipton Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
D
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 172
argue

Re: Interesting! [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8109021 12/31/20 11:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy
You can be wrong without being a liar.

Quote
USDA APHIS Govt. trappers or hunters can't do anything with carcasses of anything they trap or kill, after taking the dept. required blood and tissue samples. Can't keep furs or hides or give them away either. All carcasses have to be disposed of in an approved manner, as to not pose a threat to public health. (or politics wink... they can't even take or keep photos or video of animals taken. )


So it isn't just hogs? You said hogs could not be donated because of all their zoonoses, but now, none of the animals can be donated. Do they all have too many zoonoses? Of course not.

The zoonotic issue isn't why the USDA isn't donating feral hogs to the needy. After all, it is the USDA that has the established guidelines to make it possible for hogs, including feral hogs, to be distributed publicly.



Dude.

Chill out.

I made a joke.

I'm not a liar, or wrong. I just relayed fact based on real life experience. Meat donations to the needy can occur, if the state director of WS decides it can, and makes written policy and procedure... (or not... Which is the experience I relayed)

The directives of Wildlife Specialists not being allowed to harvest furs from predators taken was in effect long before they started killing hogs. But for different reasons. They don't want WS agents to appear to be profiting from animals they take in the line of duty.

The meat/food inspection division of USDA is not the same as the Wildlife Services division.

I'm done playing "Tu Madre" with you.

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8109070 12/31/20 01:09 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Well good, because you really seemed revved up about stating that hogs could not be donated because they were disease carriers. Funny how the story kept changing.


Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: Double Naught Spy] #8109080 12/31/20 01:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Never said that.

I said USDA APHIS doesn't donate killed feral hogs to homeless.

If I'm wrong, then please show us all one example of it.

Jesus Christ, man.

Grow up.

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8110215 01/01/21 02:18 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Originally Posted by BbarVRanch
Never said that.

I said USDA APHIS doesn't donate killed feral hogs to homeless.

If I'm wrong, then please show us all one example of it.

Jesus Christ, man.

Grow up.


NEVER? Are these not your very words?...

Quote
They are a know carrier of brucellosis.

USDA APHIS cannot feed the needy with hogs taken for that reason, and the other 26 infectious diseases and transferable parasites on feral hogs.


Then you claimed you knew this to be the truth because you are a government hunter and read stuff personally.

Quote
Be that as it may, I am not just guessing about this stuff. While all known wildlife carries something, USDA APHIS cannot feed needy folks feral hogs they trap or shoot. Specifically for reasons already stated.

I should know, since I was a govt. hunter, and reviewed the directives personally.


You seem to have a selective memory.


Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8110322 01/01/21 03:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Selective memory?

You came in this thread with a hard on for me for whatever reason you may have.

But that's fine.

Everyone that reads it sees you for what you are.

What I have said is plain for everyone to see.

What isn't plain is why you keep coming at me with your macho BS.

I have nothing to prove to you, nor would I. How about you show us where that agency does donate killed hogs to the needy. Just one instance will work.

Tu Madre. You like games, evidently.

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8110386 01/01/21 04:31 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
For a guy who was done with the thread, you sure do talk a lot after being finished.

Why would I show you where that agency donates killed hogs to the needy? I never claimed they did. I just noted that the reason that they don't do it isn't because of brucellosis or other zoonotic diseases as you claimed and then apparently forgot.

I have to admit, you gave me a good laugh. I never have heard of using quotes and sources as coming across as being macho. That is pretty cool.

Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 01/01/21 04:34 AM.

Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8110448 01/01/21 05:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
BbarVRanch Online Content
Tracker
Online Content
Tracker
Joined: Nov 2020
Posts: 680
Bet your sponsors are proud of you.

Enlightening. Or should be.

Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8110887 01/01/21 05:01 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
Double Naught Spy Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Offline
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 7,209
LOL, apologies if you took offense to multiple incorrect statements being noted. The bottom line is that brucellosis isn't that big of a deal in the grand scheme of frequency of occurrence in humans and is far from unique to hogs. Not only is brucellosis extremely rare in terms of occurrence rates in the US (less than 200 per year and much less than 200 in many years), brucellosis contracted by hunters from infected animals such as deer, elk, bison, hogs, etc. is only a tiny fraction of that. As a disease carrier, hogs really just aren't that big of a deal when compared with other mammals we like to hunt and consume no matter how much we want to vilify hogs for it. Most healthy hunters will not contract any sort of diseases when dealing with the handling and processing of raw animal products, even if the game is infected and the hunters are unprotected (not using gloves and such). Incidental and limited exposures usually will be fended off by the immune system. Hunters with compromised immune systems or who suffer more significant exposures such as by cutting themselves while butchering and such run a much greater chance of developing an infection no readily handled by the immune system.

You mentioned some processor rejecting >25% of the hogs brought to be processed. Okay. Here is a meat processor that stopped taking 100% of deer due to CWD. https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...concerns-force-processor-to-quit-venison Processors get to make their own rules.

In terms of occurrence of brucellosis in a given population, Wyoming's elk population is testing positive for brucellosis exposure at over 30%.
https://billingsgazette.com/outdoor...1b08acc-8ea4-52d0-bf79-82a88ee7f182.html

Yellowstone is due to put down 500-700 of their bison this year due to brucellosis (10-14%).

Everybody should take appropriate precautions when handling raw animal products, in particular, mammal products. Being more closely related to humans, they tend to carry more zoonoses than birds, fish, reptiles or amphibians, but they all carry a variety of things detrimental to humans.

So from a statistical standpoint, we have millions of hunters going out every year and only a small percentage of them contract zoonotic diseases as a result of contact with their quarry. So the quantitative risk factor is fairly low. The problem is that if you are one of the hunters who does contract X disease, it may be very significant/detrimental to you.





Last edited by Double Naught Spy; 01/01/21 05:02 PM.

Hogdalorian - Si vis pacem cum sus, para bellum.
My Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange
Re: Interesting! [Re: mikei] #8111591 01/02/21 02:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 172
D
Douglas Tipton Offline
Woodsman
Offline
Woodsman
D
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 172
violin dead_horse popcorn cheerleader duel

Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread

© 2004-2019 OUTDOOR SITES NETWORK all rights reserved USA and Worldwide
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3