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Buffalo Hunts #8103796 12/26/20 03:32 PM
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12/26/1874: First commercial buffalo hunt in Texas
On this day in 1874, Joseph McComb led a party out from Fort Griffin on the first commercial buffalo hunt in Texas. The party consisted of McComb; two assistants, John Jacobs and John W. Poe; and teamsters, skinners, and an ox-drawn wagon. The season's kill brought 2,000 hides, which were marketed at Fort Griffin at $1.50 and $2.00 each. Other hunting trips headed by McComb followed in 1875, 1876, 1877, and 1878. McComb estimated that he killed no fewer than 12,000 buffalo during his five hunting seasons. The completion of the transcontinental railroad was a catalyst for the slaughter of buffalo in the 1870s and 1880s, since the railroad made possible the profitable shipment of hides from the Great Plains to eastern markets. Thousands of hunters and skinners participated in the hunts. By 1884 the great herds had been exterminated.


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8103815 12/26/20 03:58 PM
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This all happened about 15 miles north of me. Big part of our local history.
More hides were shipped from Fort Griffin than anywhere in the southwest.
Most were shot about 100 miles west of Fort Griffin in Haskell and Knox Counties.

Last edited by huntwest; 12/26/20 03:59 PM.
Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8103997 12/26/20 08:54 PM
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They were slaughters, not hunts, and organized to the detriment of Native Americans.
Sad situation that an entire species was almost exterminated due to racism towards Native Americans.
Not all "hunts" were organized for that reason but a great many were.
However, I do not agree with the native americans getting the only chance to hunt bison when they roam out of some of our national parks.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104016 12/26/20 09:21 PM
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Thanks for sharing

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Wytex] #8104038 12/26/20 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Wytex
They were slaughters, not hunts, and organized to the detriment of Native Americans.
Sad situation that an entire species was almost exterminated due to racism towards Native Americans.
Not all "hunts" were organized for that reason but a great many were.
However, I do not agree with the native americans getting the only chance to hunt bison when they roam out of some of our national parks.


True on the slaughter part.
But native Americans are not the only ones allowed to hunt wild bison outside of national parks.

Wyoming, Montana, Utah and Alaska all have seasons and draw tags available every year.
In Canada one can buy a tag in most of western Canada.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Wytex] #8104050 12/26/20 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Wytex
However, I do not agree with the native americans getting the only chance to hunt bison when they roam out of some of our national parks.


Gonna hoist the BS flag on this. Not sure where you get the idea only "native Americans" get the tags for bison that wander out of parks.

[Linked Image]

Many years ago I drew one of the MT tags for bison outside of Yellowstone. Took this one on a rancher's hay meadow. Bison had been breaking open bales (you can see one right behind me) and he let the game wardens know he wanted them gone. I'm one of the permit holders the game wardens called and this young bull filled my permit. I wanted good meat so I intentionally avoided one of the really big bulls. Picture doesn't do the weather justice. It was well below 0 even thought there wasn't hardly a cloud in the sky.

Do I look like I'm a member of one of the tribes?


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104105 12/26/20 10:36 PM
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Not to mention the concept the native Americans were great stewards of the bison..plenty of evidence in the fossil records and the historical record where native Americans were at times very wasteful of bison (they didn’t always use all the animal from every animal but they has uses for all the parts of a bison, if that makes sense) and the fossil records of bison jumps were examples where natives were very gluttonous and used very little of most of the animals killed in such attacks/slaughters.

If anyone thinks bison were not slaughtered in some part by native Americans, they are just following the white guilt indoctrination currently going thru the American education system.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104138 12/26/20 11:11 PM
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A wagon train of buffalo hides in Weatherford, Texas on the way to market, 1874. From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram Collection, Special Collections, UTA Library.

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Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: dogcatcher] #8104161 12/26/20 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
A wagon train of buffalo hides in Weatherford, Texas on the way to market, 1874. From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram Collection, Special Collections, UTA Library.

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Disgusting.


Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: bill oxner] #8104172 12/26/20 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by bill oxner
Originally Posted by dogcatcher
A wagon train of buffalo hides in Weatherford, Texas on the way to market, 1874. From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram Collection, Special Collections, UTA Library.

[Linked Image]



Disgusting.



Hindsight's 20/20. When you think we're SOOO much more enlightened than our forefathers, consider this - When cars first came out, the owner's manuals included instructions on how to perform a valve job. Now, owner's manuals warn us not to drink the battery acid. scratch


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: huntwest] #8104214 12/27/20 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by huntwest
Originally Posted by Wytex
They were slaughters, not hunts, and organized to the detriment of Native Americans.
Sad situation that an entire species was almost exterminated due to racism towards Native Americans.
Not all "hunts" were organized for that reason but a great many were.
However, I do not agree with the native americans getting the only chance to hunt bison when they roam out of some of our national parks.


True on the slaughter part.
But native Americans are not the only ones allowed to hunt wild bison outside of national parks.

Wyoming, Montana, Utah and Alaska all have seasons and draw tags available every year.
In Canada one can buy a tag in most of western Canada.


It’s been and once again being pushed that way, Anyway huge push to relocate all excess TB free Buffalo to only Reservations

Lots of bad blood right now after Herrera vs Wyoming. As there should be. Herrera a POS poacher and a disgrace to a badge





Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104255 12/27/20 01:34 AM
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Not all by any means, but some bison that roam out of Yellowstone are rounded up and given to tribes adjacent.
Sorry my post was not accurate in my initial statement. I was distracted by certain events in Nashville when I posted.
It is a big point of contention with some residents of Montana and Wyoming.
I however see it as a concession to them for the slaughter that took place in the past.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104257 12/27/20 01:38 AM
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I have drawn 2 of those cow bison tags in Wyoming and my spouse has taken 1. I know full well about the tags available to residents and NR.
Wyoming must also honor native hunting rights in the Bighorn Mts now after that Herrera case.

My last cow taken on NER, and it was very cold also. Took us 3 days and about 5 miles on foot through that snow to get it done. Processed ourselves at home, Tag and Drag gutted it and got it to the retrieval road.

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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104319 12/27/20 02:54 AM
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Indians very much, or at least very much more than we, lived in harmony with the land. But then you have to ask, what were their options. You cannot accurately compare the two societies. You have to look at each based in their time, place, and knowledge.

Same with the Buffalo hunters. Yes we can call them “disgusting.” But that is not accurate or fair either. Any more than judging slave owners based on our “enlightenment” of today. Right or wrong, the beauty of history is to simply see the lives that people lived. Surviving and changing to enhance life as best they could. To learn is wise, to judge based on a complete different time and period is simply foolish.


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104348 12/27/20 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Sniper.270
Indians very much, or at least very much more than we, lived in harmony with the land. But then you have to ask, what were their options. You cannot accurately compare the two societies. You have to look at each based in their time, place, and knowledge.

Same with the Buffalo hunters. Yes we can call them “disgusting.” But that is not accurate or fair either. Any more than judging slave owners based on our “enlightenment” of today. Right or wrong, the beauty of history is to simply see the lives that people lived. Surviving and changing to enhance life as best they could. To learn is wise, to judge based on a complete different time and period is simply foolish.


What if all we learned about native Americans living in harmony in a “edenic” continent was all wrong? A little research into the topic and i think you will find the native americans very actively terraformed, modified flora, at times was very gluttonous of animal wastage, and were very much aware of what they were doing (intentionality) and were quite a bit more advanced (in knowledge of certain areas geographically and topically) than we give credit for in the historical record “we all learned”...meaning our concept they were just naturalistic “live and let live, go with the flow and harmony of nature” is almost completely wrong.

This has little bearing on much other than to say the concept that the bison almost going extinct being solely looked at as a white mans problem, and fortunately we have been able to bring them back to big sustainable herds (95% on private lands), but native americans were part and parcel to hide hunting and tongue hunting while leaving massive numbers of dead bison laying to rot.

The rest of your post i agree with, using todays morality to judge yesteryears events is faulty.

Last edited by Texas buckeye; 12/27/20 03:53 AM.
Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104574 12/27/20 02:54 PM
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My apologies gentlemen. I did not mean to start a contentious debate.
I was truly distracted by current evens when I posted about the N A s.
Yes they too were guilty of the events described, but not all tribes.
I by no means was trying to defend them at cost to our ancestors.
Thankfully the bison have made a comeback of sorts.
Wyoming , Montana, Utah and SD have free range bison hunts with animals taken being eligible for B&C .

Again my apologies to all who have posted on this thread.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Wytex] #8104599 12/27/20 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Wytex
I have drawn 2 of those cow bison tags in Wyoming and my spouse has taken 1. I know full well about the tags available to residents and NR.
Wyoming must also honor native hunting rights in the Bighorn Mts now after that Herrera case.

My last cow taken on NER, and it was very cold also. Took us 3 days and about 5 miles on foot through that snow to get it done. Processed ourselves at home, Tag and Drag gutted it and got it to the retrieval road.

[Linked Image]


Beautiful sir

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Texas buckeye] #8104630 12/27/20 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by Sniper.270
Indians very much, or at least very much more than we, lived in harmony with the land. But then you have to ask, what were their options. You cannot accurately compare the two societies. You have to look at each based in their time, place, and knowledge.

Same with the Buffalo hunters. Yes we can call them “disgusting.” But that is not accurate or fair either. Any more than judging slave owners based on our “enlightenment” of today. Right or wrong, the beauty of history is to simply see the lives that people lived. Surviving and changing to enhance life as best they could. To learn is wise, to judge based on a complete different time and period is simply foolish.


What if all we learned about native Americans living in harmony in a “edenic” continent was all wrong? A little research into the topic and i think you will find the native americans very actively terraformed, modified flora, at times was very gluttonous of animal wastage, and were very much aware of what they were doing (intentionality) and were quite a bit more advanced (in knowledge of certain areas geographically and topically) than we give credit for in the historical record “we all learned”...meaning our concept they were just naturalistic “live and let live, go with the flow and harmony of nature” is almost completely wrong.

This has little bearing on much other than to say the concept that the bison almost going extinct being solely looked at as a white mans problem, and fortunately we have been able to bring them back to big sustainable herds (95% on private lands), but native americans were part and parcel to hide hunting and tongue hunting while leaving massive numbers of dead bison laying to rot.

The rest of your post i agree with, using todays morality to judge yesteryears events is faulty.



I don’t know if some, surely, but I don’t think most think the early people lived in an “edenic” continent. Not in the truest since of a “garden of eden.” If that were the case, as in the garden, meat would have not been eaten. Ha. I would, or certainly was not pushing the idea of a perfect harmony early people’s lived. However, the simple technology of the time would not permit a path for extinction. I am sure you can find many examples where early people were not good stewards, even where waste were displayed. The concept of monetary gain was not feasible on a large enough scale to have led the native people to whole sale exterminations. It would have been extremely “cost prohibitive” in their time and life. They certainly were not “naturalist” in the modern sense, yet they lived/existed in a a more natural environment.

You also, must evaluate the native based on pre/post European exposure.


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104652 12/27/20 04:09 PM
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Wytex, not sure what you meant by contentious debate...we are just having a conversation...nothing contentious going on here.

Sniper, whats interesting is the historical record says the numbers of native Americans on the continent was small, and therefore we “feel” like they couldn’t have been advanced because they simply didn’t have the numbers and their “way of life” was so nomadic they couldn’t have had decent civilization...but that is a post european introduction.

Current estimates now say the native population was decimated by 75-90% within the first few decades after europeans, so all the historical record is based upon a faulty concept. Lots of evidence out there in the archeologic record to suggest there were some places in pre-european america with population centers over 100,000 people, including at least one “city” in north america with such a population and several in central and south america with populations many times more. Simply amazing to me, to think all that i was taught was just not accurate, that such centers of civilization existed in the pre-europe americas.

And excellent book on the subject is 1492. Its follow on 1493 i have not read yet but i have it and am anxious to start it. The first deals with pre-european america, and the second post-european america. I have also hist recently read rinellas buffalo book, and am currently reading a book about the souix head man Red Cloud, and have a book about Quanah Parker next.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104716 12/27/20 05:37 PM
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It's fascinating history that I am thankful that we can learn from.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104718 12/27/20 05:38 PM
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All are excellent books. Quanah Parker is one of my favorite. There are several books about his mother Cynthia Ann Parker which are good reads too.

Small is a relative term. Many of the people were extremely advanced. Again, advanced being a relative term. The Mayan use of the zero in about 4A.D is unreal. I can’t speak of the teaching of early civilizations by all but I always taught it as how “advanced” early civilizations were. Again, relative. The Caddoan people of east Texas were part of a system that can only be described as advanced. For their time. To truly know the pre European societies in North America would have, would be the most awesome experience. The Incas, Mayans, and Aztec’s were some of the most advanced. So again, it is really just how you wish to see advanced. It is a shame that many are/were taught an inaccurate history. Never too late to correct that.


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Sniper.270] #8104727 12/27/20 05:49 PM
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For sure, the education i received basically said “Indians” lived at peace with the world and were nothing short of savages woth only a naturalistic morality and no “modern” (for the time of course) civilization or advancements.

Sounds like you know a little more than the average American does about native cultures and advances. That explains a lot about your posts on this thread.

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Caddoas, mayans, incas and aztecs did not chase buffalo. Lumping all injuns as advanced is a mistake. Some of those there advanced Native American were no match for the highly outnumbered colonialists and outdoorsmen they were confronted with.

Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Hudbone] #8104752 12/27/20 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Caddoas, mayans, incas and aztecs did not chase buffalo. Lumping all injuns as advanced is a mistake. Some of those there advanced Native American were no match for the highly outnumbered colonialists and outdoorsmen they were confronted with.


Ha. Ha. Well probably not. Although there are stories/records of Buffalo making it into east Texas region. Rare I am sure, but possible. I don’t believe anyone is “lumping” all injuns as advanced. Again, an educated person knows that all things are relative. A bow is not equivalent to a gun in regards to advanced. However a person who can create a bow that enables his life to flourish could be considered advanced. You might be considered very advanced with modern creations today. But put you into the world/nature of the “injuns” of centuries ago and more than likely you would perish quickly. The mere fact that civilizations survived during times of great harshness and adapted and survived learning the practices they did can be considered “advanced.”

No match is also subject to relatively. The number one weapon the “outdoorsman and and colonist” had was European diseases. Give a Comanche a horse, bow, and a battle on the open plains. Give same number of colonists a horse, a bow, and a battle on the open plains. Who is advanced?

Bottom line, the advancements we have today in no way diminish the advancements of those who came centuries before us. Each is an accomplishment in its own right.


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Re: Buffalo Hunts [Re: Hudbone] #8104757 12/27/20 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Caddoas, mayans, incas and aztecs did not chase buffalo. Lumping all injuns as advanced is a mistake. Some of those there advanced Native American were no match for the highly outnumbered colonialists and outdoorsmen they were confronted with.


Had the colonialists met the full force of the native people, they may have met their match. But smallpox, cholera, etc took their toll and estimates are nearly 90% of the native population was wiped from the americas by the time the jamestown colony was founded.

Some of the earliest explorers have records of native town after town along the great rivers in N america, but by the time lewis and clark sailed the northern ones, the number of settlements along the river were gone.

And btw, there used to be bison all the way down to current mexico. I would guess most of the natives that lived in texas and the area of the caddoan tribes hunted bison to some degree. Might not have been the main part of their hunting. But to say they didn’t chase bison, depends if you mean “chase” like the plains natives did, then you are correct; if you mean “chase” like we mostly all chase deer, you are probably incorrect.

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