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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077117
12/05/20 02:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,984
Texas buckeye
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,984 |
Amazing animal. Honest question here, so please don’t take it as a slight. Have y’all done nothing more than selective harvests and supplemental feeding? In other words, was it just god’s country and y’all just provide groceries and let them get old? Or are there other things you had to do to get where you are?
Much respect for the discipline it takes to get where y’all are. Hope he puts on 20 more inches next year. No offense taken. Multiple things IMO. Next season will be my 14th year on the lease so we obviously have a great relationship with the LO and long term lease agreements. The LO and our members are all on the same page when it comes to management. Yes we feed protein, cottonseed, and corn and we are obviously very patient and selective in the deer we take. Does not mean there have been a few mistakes over the years but all in all we err on the side of caution if we do not think a deer is mature. Yes the forbs and brush on the ranch are excellent which obviously makes a difference. It is a large ranch. To me one of the major things done was adding water pilas all over the ranch which made a huge difference. Even if our tanks go dry in drought there is always water available. There are no livestock on the ranch nor oil field traffic. In addition the LO and our lease members cull hard. I get that there are folks out there who say culling has no impact but in our case we have done it for years and the results are hard to argue with. We vary the number of does we kill each year based on fawn survival and range conditions. We kill culls on sight and some management bucks. There is no reason in our opinion to let a 3-4 year old basic 8 point walk unless he has some distinguishing feature (huge frame, unusual mass, etc.) We have too many 10-20 point deer to let 8's walk. So there is a lot more to it than feed. The biggest challenge is finding the right lease members who are willing to be super patient and work with each other. Yes we have rules but they are common sense rules and yes we follow them (including me). So end of the day and as I have told many folks it does not happen by accident. To be clear, many on here argue culling to “change genetics” doesn’t work. I think few would argue culling for management doesn’t work (as evidenced by your lease). The genetics of the deer herd are still the same as when you joined 14 years ago (again evidenced by the fact you haven’t imported any different genetic lines and you are getting what you see in this thread, amazing deer), the difference is allowing full genetic expression. Sorry, not trying to derail or start an argument, but the point was worth making and distinguishing from some of the previous posts about the topic. To belabor the point a little more, i recently saw a pic of a dead deer someone shot very near a low fence lease some on here are members. The area has very little hunting pressure, there is no management set up and no supplemental feed whatsoever. This deer was all of 200”, just a beautiful deer. Where genetics are allowed to express fully, good things can happen (sometimes). But too often we shoot deer too early and don't allow full genetic expression, other times nature does that for us with drought or disease or stress. The point of a management plan is to try and allow more deer yo maximize their genetic potential. Lots of ways to get there. Tlk is doing it right for them!!
Last edited by Texas buckeye; 12/05/20 03:05 PM.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#8077127
12/05/20 03:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
Amazing animal. Honest question here, so please don’t take it as a slight. Have y’all done nothing more than selective harvests and supplemental feeding? In other words, was it just god’s country and y’all just provide groceries and let them get old? Or are there other things you had to do to get where you are?
Much respect for the discipline it takes to get where y’all are. Hope he puts on 20 more inches next year. No offense taken. Multiple things IMO. Next season will be my 14th year on the lease so we obviously have a great relationship with the LO and long term lease agreements. The LO and our members are all on the same page when it comes to management. Yes we feed protein, cottonseed, and corn and we are obviously very patient and selective in the deer we take. Does not mean there have been a few mistakes over the years but all in all we err on the side of caution if we do not think a deer is mature. Yes the forbs and brush on the ranch are excellent which obviously makes a difference. It is a large ranch. To me one of the major things done was adding water pilas all over the ranch which made a huge difference. Even if our tanks go dry in drought there is always water available. There are no livestock on the ranch nor oil field traffic. In addition the LO and our lease members cull hard. I get that there are folks out there who say culling has no impact but in our case we have done it for years and the results are hard to argue with. We vary the number of does we kill each year based on fawn survival and range conditions. We kill culls on sight and some management bucks. There is no reason in our opinion to let a 3-4 year old basic 8 point walk unless he has some distinguishing feature (huge frame, unusual mass, etc.) We have too many 10-20 point deer to let 8's walk. So there is a lot more to it than feed. The biggest challenge is finding the right lease members who are willing to be super patient and work with each other. Yes we have rules but they are common sense rules and yes we follow them (including me). So end of the day and as I have told many folks it does not happen by accident. To be clear, many on here argue culling to “change genetics” doesn’t work. I think few would argue culling for management doesn’t work (as evidenced by your lease). The genetics of the deer herd are still the same as when you joined 14 years ago (again evidenced by the fact you haven’t imported any different genetic lines and you are getting what you see in this thread, amazing deer), the difference is allowing full genetic expression. Sorry, not trying to derail or start an argument, but the point was worth making and distinguishing from some of the previous posts about the topic. IMO you are totally correct - I have stated here multiple times it does not change genetics - and yes I prefer not to veer off here on whether culling works or not - that is for a different thread. I am old school and believe in the saying "if it ain't broke don't fix it" - so in our case we will keep on keeping on.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077129
12/05/20 03:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,984
Texas buckeye
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 10,984 |
Tlk, added a little more in an edit to my post...we are in alignment. Keep up the good work! Btw, if next year that buck drops to 180-190, give me a call i will come Out and cull him for you
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077152
12/05/20 03:34 PM
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Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 95
Firstlight10
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 95 |
That is a lottery deer. The right genetics had to line up to produce him. The more he can pass on helps increase the odds it will line up again. The does fawns that have his genetics are passing on also. Yall have a great mangement program, I love seeing this.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: Firstlight10]
#8077202
12/05/20 04:16 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830
Grosvenor
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,830 |
Good deal. I could be pretty patient for a shot at taking down Milo Hansen. Hope you have called dibs!
Last edited by Grosvenor; 12/05/20 04:21 PM.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077205
12/05/20 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,514
SnakeWrangler
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,514 |
This is the almost 200” LF buck my uncle took last year. They watched him for six years..... They have been managing this herd for almost 20 years and have a few more they are "watching"....only way it works is if everyone agrees on the plan and then follows the plan....
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077297
12/05/20 05:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,671
Txhunter65
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2,671 |
Amazing animal and group of men who've worked hard to produce him.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077468
12/05/20 09:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 442
jcneef
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 442 |
Jeez the perfect deer does exist!
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: TLew]
#8077718
12/06/20 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
At 5 he should have already passed his genes along. Genes don’t change from year to year, and if he took a year back then blew up, would you have had the same thought a year ago? I admire the conviction and commitment, there is nothing I will disagree on there. I wouldn’t have taken it to chance though if I saw him this year — that’s a one in a lifetime. I agree - Genes do not change year to year ......... but the more does that receive those genes is a good thing. To answer you question - no matter if a deer blows up or not, our practice is to wait until they are a minimum of age 6. If in doubt we wait to see what happens the following year. I cannot tell you how many "once in a lifetime" bucks I have seen killed here over the years that easily could have been shot at younger ages. That is why our lease is not for everyone.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077752
12/06/20 12:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422
jeffbird
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,422 |
Beautiful deer.
Congratulations on your management success and thank you for sharing.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: jeffbird]
#8077757
12/06/20 12:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
Beautiful deer.
Congratulations on your management success and thank you for sharing.
thank you Sir
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077797
12/06/20 01:22 AM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564
TexFlip
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,564 |
Y'all have a serious program and produce monster bucks consistently. Hell of a buck.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077847
12/06/20 02:03 AM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 80
cowie14
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 80 |
Awesome deer! I'm just going to throw this out there. Do you think a high fence around your lease would worsen or better your program based on the acreage you have? All hypothetical
Last edited by cowie14; 12/06/20 02:05 AM.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8077877
12/06/20 02:28 AM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 18,672
Roll-Tide
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 18,672 |
I haven’t shot a deer on my lease in 5 years.
I would like to officially put my name on your waiting list.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: Roll-Tide]
#8078507
12/06/20 06:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548
JCB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 26,548 |
I haven’t shot a deer on my lease in 5 years.
I would like to officially put my name on your waiting list. The funny thing is he had an opening either this year or the year before if I remember correctly.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: JCB]
#8078600
12/06/20 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
I haven’t shot a deer on my lease in 5 years.
I would like to officially put my name on your waiting list. The funny thing is he had an opening either this year or the year before if I remember correctly. We have openings every so often - usually due to job situations like oil field, etc.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8078726
12/06/20 10:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 152
Jeff in TX
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 152 |
I'm curious, how many acres is the LF lease? Does it back up to any HF ranches. How much protein are you feeding? Being a bit skeptical, it's one thing to have a buck of a lifetime on a low fence property where the deer can come as go as they please, and the folks on adjoining leases would drop in heart beat! However, when there are multiple 200 class deer on a LF lease and they're there year after year it makes me ask how? Game management is one thing and something myself and my neighbors all work together on, but what's your secret? Yes, great genetics being passed down I get, though on low fence you don't have control of the does genetics. It takes two to create a 200 plus deer plus great food and protein. Even in deer breeding programs, not all bucks born have what it takes to be monsters. This is made even harder to produce on LF deer with unknown genetics.
Just curious how big your lease is and what you're doing in the game management program, that a lot of us aren't!
Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: Jeff in TX]
#8078767
12/06/20 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
I'm curious, how many acres is the LF lease? Does it back up to any HF ranches. How much protein are you feeding? Being a bit skeptical, it's one thing to have a buck of a lifetime on a low fence property where the deer can come as go as they please, and the folks on adjoining leases would drop in heart beat! However, when there are multiple 200 class deer on a LF lease and they're there year after year it makes me ask how? Game management is one thing and something myself and my neighbors all work together on, but what's your secret? Yes, great genetics being passed down I get, though on low fence you don't have control of the does genetics. It takes two to create a 200 plus deer plus great food and protein. Even in deer breeding programs, not all bucks born have what it takes to be monsters. This is made even harder to produce on LF deer with unknown genetics.
Just curious how big your lease is and what you're doing in the game management program, that a lot of us aren't! If you will go to the top of this page (page 2) I pretty much already covered most of your questions. I have been on this forum now for 8 years, posted a number of pictures of our deer, and there are even a few members of this forum who have actually been on this ranch. It is a very large LF ranch - not all the bucks born here are trophy deer and I certainly never said that was the case - that is why we do a lot of culling. Our primary neighbor lease (same ranch) is on the same management program we are. We have a protein feed pen around every 300-350 acres and a cottonseed feeder around every 200 acres (half of which are outside of pens so that the fawns can get to it without having to jump into a pen). We use predator control including trapping coyotes hard. We have water pilas spread across the ranch which keeps deer in our area even during drought when other ranches around us ponds have dried up. We put wormer out for our deer once a year which has added about 10-15% to our body weights. Our native brush is excellent and diverse. We have no cattle. We have no oil field traffic. I could go on and on. Nothing magic and sorry you are a bit skeptical but I understand
Last edited by tlk; 12/06/20 11:45 PM.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: Jeff in TX]
#8079010
12/07/20 02:44 AM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
I'm curious, how many acres is the LF lease? Does it back up to any HF ranches. How much protein are you feeding? Being a bit skeptical, it's one thing to have a buck of a lifetime on a low fence property where the deer can come as go as they please, and the folks on adjoining leases would drop in heart beat! However, when there are multiple 200 class deer on a LF lease and they're there year after year it makes me ask how? Game management is one thing and something myself and my neighbors all work together on, but what's your secret? Yes, great genetics being passed down I get, though on low fence you don't have control of the does genetics. It takes two to create a 200 plus deer plus great food and protein. Even in deer breeding programs, not all bucks born have what it takes to be monsters. This is made even harder to produce on LF deer with unknown genetics.
Just curious how big your lease is and what you're doing in the game management program, that a lot of us aren't! So Jeff - I noticed this is your first post here in over two months. Please tell us about the J&D ranch north? How many acres? LF or HF? How much protein do you feed? Pics of your deer? Management program? Who are your neighbors? Fill us in please on how you run your ranch?
Last edited by tlk; 12/07/20 02:47 AM.
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8079329
12/07/20 02:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 450
cullbuck
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 450 |
Congrat's, that a friggin toad! I hope mother nature is kind to him (and all of us) next year. Do you join Holden's pasture?
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8079339
12/07/20 02:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,785
Mr. T.
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 7,785 |
Cabin rental in Pagosa Springs, Co. Sleeps 10, If interested please PM me.
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8079348
12/07/20 02:28 PM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 428
PoppinPiggies
Bird Dog
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Bird Dog
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 428 |
Wow....... incredible job all around that buck isn't luck its obviously a culmination of all the hard work you, your LO and your lease members have put in! It's obviously paying off!
Follow me on instagram @crosstexasoutdoors
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8079451
12/07/20 03:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 152
Jeff in TX
Woodsman
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Woodsman
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 152 |
I'm curious, how many acres is the LF lease? Does it back up to any HF ranches. How much protein are you feeding? Being a bit skeptical, it's one thing to have a buck of a lifetime on a low fence property where the deer can come as go as they please, and the folks on adjoining leases would drop in heart beat! However, when there are multiple 200 class deer on a LF lease and they're there year after year it makes me ask how? Game management is one thing and something myself and my neighbors all work together on, but what's your secret? Yes, great genetics being passed down I get, though on low fence you don't have control of the does genetics. It takes two to create a 200 plus deer plus great food and protein. Even in deer breeding programs, not all bucks born have what it takes to be monsters. This is made even harder to produce on LF deer with unknown genetics.
Just curious how big your lease is and what you're doing in the game management program, that a lot of us aren't! So Jeff - I noticed this is your first post here in over two months. Please tell us about the J&D ranch north? How many acres? LF or HF? How much protein do you feed? Pics of your deer? Management program? Who are your neighbors? Fill us in please on how you run your ranch? If you really must know, on Oct 1st I was placed on a ventilator and put in a coma for six days with Covid, I spent 16 days in the ICU. I lost 30 pounds of muscle mass during those 16 days. I spent a total of 40 days in the hospital. I'm learning how to walk all over as well as eat and swallow. The breathing tube gave me ulcers in my throat narrowing my throat passage. I have physical, occupational and throat therapy five days a week. Though not all in one day, physical therapy 3 days a week and OP and throat two days a week. PM me, I'll give you my real name and you can go on my FB page it's all well documented with my ups downs and my progress. Most of which my wife posted. I just started getting back on line and looking around. Sat evening was my first time in a deer stand. My wife drove me to the stand helped me get in and then picked me up. When I get back for PT later this morning I'll answer your questions about my ranch! Please where a mask. Covid is no joke!
Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: Jeff in TX]
#8079496
12/07/20 03:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032
tlk
OP
THF Trophy Hunter
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OP
THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,032 |
I'm curious, how many acres is the LF lease? Does it back up to any HF ranches. How much protein are you feeding? Being a bit skeptical, it's one thing to have a buck of a lifetime on a low fence property where the deer can come as go as they please, and the folks on adjoining leases would drop in heart beat! However, when there are multiple 200 class deer on a LF lease and they're there year after year it makes me ask how? Game management is one thing and something myself and my neighbors all work together on, but what's your secret? Yes, great genetics being passed down I get, though on low fence you don't have control of the does genetics. It takes two to create a 200 plus deer plus great food and protein. Even in deer breeding programs, not all bucks born have what it takes to be monsters. This is made even harder to produce on LF deer with unknown genetics.
Just curious how big your lease is and what you're doing in the game management program, that a lot of us aren't! So Jeff - I noticed this is your first post here in over two months. Please tell us about the J&D ranch north? How many acres? LF or HF? How much protein do you feed? Pics of your deer? Management program? Who are your neighbors? Fill us in please on how you run your ranch? If you really must know, on Oct 1st I was placed on a ventilator and put in a coma for six days with Covid, I spent 16 days in the ICU. I lost 30 pounds of muscle mass during those 16 days. I spent a total of 40 days in the hospital. I'm learning how to walk all over as well as eat and swallow. The breathing tube gave me ulcers in my throat narrowing my throat passage. I have physical, occupational and throat therapy five days a week. Though not all in one day, physical therapy 3 days a week and OP and throat two days a week. PM me, I'll give you my real name and you can go on my FB page it's all well documented with my ups downs and my progress. Most of which my wife posted. I just started getting back on line and looking around. Sat evening was my first time in a deer stand. My wife drove me to the stand helped me get in and then picked me up. When I get back for PT later this morning I'll answer your questions about my ranch! Please where a mask. Covid is no joke! I am sorry you got covid and hope you recover fully - no need to answer any questions - carry on
You can't fix stupid
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Re: 200+ inch LF typical
[Re: tlk]
#8079520
12/07/20 04:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,533
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,533 |
Amazing deer and program. To me the ability to let them walk comes with faith that they will return. Its much easier inside a HF, but with the program, feed, acreage, dedication yall have going it sure looks like you retain them anyway. Always happy to look at your pictures, would be great to see the pictures of his progression
It's hell eatin em live
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