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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Texas Dan]
#8063003
11/24/20 08:10 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273 |
6.5 Creedmoor with a 100 grain Barnes TTSX produces more reliable terminal results than a .243. Yes it does, but with roughly 36% more recoil energy. A .243 produces 8.8 ft. lbs. (100 grain load) of energy compared to 12 ft. lbs. (142 grain load) with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've never understood why some folks claim the 6.5 Creedmoor is light on recoil. Perhaps that's a true statement when you compare it to the 16 ft. lbs of energy produced by a .270, or the 18 ft. lbs with a .308 Winchester. This is wrong, the force has to be multiplied by the recoil speed to get an accurate picture but it’s going to change with rifle weight. They are close enough you can make a 6.5CM/260 recoil same as a 243 by increasing rifle weight. https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htmAnd I’ve owned both, Infact turned 243 into a 6.5CM an after shooting barrel out..... You take one of the small kid sized framed 243’s and it will have more felt recoil then a heavier full sized Creedmoor
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063014
11/24/20 08:21 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,318 |
Lots of good comments on here for sure. More than one way to skin a cat also but I really like the 708. As stated, its lighter recoil if manageable for your child then its a gun they can use forever. If its too much recoil then the reduced ammo to start. Whole lot of good discussion on this line of thought in the thread by grosvenor about the 243 not drawing blood, so look it up if serious about more feedback.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063018
11/24/20 08:24 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 27,891
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
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Posts: 27,891 |
If she’s doing well with the 22-250 then I’d stick with it, it’s a killer. Ain’t broke don’t fix it....JMO
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8063020
11/24/20 08:25 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,210
Texas Dan
THF Celebrity
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Posts: 22,210 |
6.5 Creedmoor with a 100 grain Barnes TTSX produces more reliable terminal results than a .243. Yes it does, but with roughly 36% more recoil energy. A .243 produces 8.8 ft. lbs. (100 grain load) of energy compared to 12 ft. lbs. (142 grain load) with the 6.5 Creedmoor. I've never understood why some folks claim the 6.5 Creedmoor is light on recoil. Perhaps that's a true statement when you compare it to the 16 ft. lbs of energy produced by a .270, or the 18 ft. lbs with a .308 Winchester. This is wrong, the force has to be multiplied by the recoil speed to get an accurate picture but it’s going to change with rifle weight. They are close enough you can make a 6.5CM/260 recoil same as a 243 by increasing rifle weight. https://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htmAnd I’ve owned both, Infact turned 243 into a 6.5CM an after shooting barrel out..... You take one of the small kid sized framed 243’s and it will have more felt recoil then a heavier full sized Creedmoor All I'll say is the felt recoil from my .243 and 6.5 Creedmoor seems to follow the numbers I quoted earlier.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063025
11/24/20 08:30 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,273 |
For all those getting kids into shooting-my personal list
1) electronic hearing protection 1st and foremost. They can hear you better, and will talk lighter in the stand). kids fear noise more then the recoil. These fix that.
2) a tripod with gun vise- example- Reaper rest, hog saddle, bogpod deathpod etc. the heavier the better.
3) an appropriate stocked rifle or as close to appropriate as you can. Note heavier rifle equals less recoil
4) pick a moderate caliber
5) set them up for success, not failure. Practice much and limit distance with pre set corn. Don’t turn scope mag to high either.
Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 11/24/20 08:58 PM. Reason: Rifle weight
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063030
11/24/20 08:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 38
MIROPHAN
Light Foot
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Light Foot
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 38 |
Consider starting them on something small. I have taught 3 kids to shoot accurately to 200 yards using 17 HMRS and relatively inexpensive prairie dog hunts. They love it and they build lots of confidence. After that I have moved them to shooting a 6.5 creedmore with a muzzle brake. All three started learning at 7-8 years old.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: BOBO the Clown]
#8063033
11/24/20 08:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481 |
For all those getting kids into shooting-my personal list
1) electronic hearing protection 1st and foremost. They can hear your better, and will talk lighter in the stand). kids fear noise more then the recoil. These fix that.
2) a tripod with gun vise- example- Reaper rest, hog saddle, bogpod deathpod etc. the heavier the better.
3) an appropriate stocked rifle or as close to appropriate as you can.
4) pick a moderate caliber
5) set them up for success, not failure. Practice much and limit distance with pre set corn. Don’t turn scope mag to high either. That's a good list... and it works well for new to hunting wives and girlfriends also. My son wears the electronic ear muffs to the rodeo performances, shooting, lawn mowing, tractor rides, etc. etc. He hates loud noises, hopefully it will mean his hearing lasts better than mine.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: redchevy]
#8063039
11/24/20 08:42 PM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,318 |
For all those getting kids into shooting-my personal list
1) electronic hearing protection 1st and foremost. They can hear your better, and will talk lighter in the stand). kids fear noise more then the recoil. These fix that.
2) a tripod with gun vise- example- Reaper rest, hog saddle, bogpod deathpod etc. the heavier the better.
3) an appropriate stocked rifle or as close to appropriate as you can.
4) pick a moderate caliber
5) set them up for success, not failure. Practice much and limit distance with pre set corn. Don’t turn scope mag to high either. That's a good list... and it works well for new to hunting wives and girlfriends also. My son wears the electronic ear muffs to the rodeo performances, shooting, lawn mowing, tractor rides, etc. etc. He hates loud noises, hopefully it will mean his hearing lasts better than mine. Wish they had that hearing protection when i was growing up. My hearings bad.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063125
11/24/20 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,918
bigjoe8565
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 7,918 |
6.8 in AR platform with 120 Hornady SSTs. Adjustable stock, moderate caliber and it’s a leather round on deer/hogs.
I agree with the previous poster about a good bipod/tripod/rest. I picked up a BOG death grip and my grandsons used it when the were turkey hunting. With the gun clamped in tight, they had no issues with the 410 recoil using a turkey load.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063146
11/24/20 10:31 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,284
scalebuster
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,284 |
It sounds to me like she’s doing great with the 22-250. If it isn’t broke.......
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: scalebuster]
#8063189
11/24/20 11:16 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 351
Nick1
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 351 |
It sounds to me like she’s doing great with the 22-250. If it isn’t broke....... She is doing great...my thoughts are, since it’s technically a varmint round, when I’m ready to move her to larger framed bucks, I feel she will need more knockdown power.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063216
11/24/20 11:33 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,210
Texas Dan
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It sounds to me like she’s doing great with the 22-250. If it isn’t broke....... She is doing great...my thoughts are, since it’s technically a varmint round, when I’m ready to move her to larger framed bucks, I feel she will need more knockdown power. The most widely accepted amount of kinetic energy necessary to ethically kill a whitetail in 1,000 ft-lbs. I would suggest using the chart at the link below to determine what caliber and load would safely get the job done at her greatest shot distance, which might be less than the effective range of the load. I'm not at all ashamed to admit that most of my rifles are effective at much greater distances than my shootings skills can support. Link
Last edited by Texas Dan; 11/24/20 11:35 PM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063244
11/24/20 11:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 11,658
GusWayne
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It sounds to me like she’s doing great with the 22-250. If it isn’t broke....... She is doing great...my thoughts are, since it’s technically a varmint round, when I’m ready to move her to larger framed bucks, I feel she will need more knockdown power. I’m not trying to talk you in or out of the 22-250 But I’ll say my daughters buck weighed in at 158 lbs (live weight), he dropped like a rock right in the shoulder at 75
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063253
11/24/20 11:57 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,255
Dave Davidson
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,255 |
I started my Grandson on a Rem 222. He shot his first deer with it, a small 6 point at 6 years old. He is now 22 yoa, 6'4"" and still occasionally takes the triple deuce. I only recall one deer that was shot with it that didn't get anchored. I have personally lost deer when I blow them almost apart with a 30-06.
Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: GusWayne]
#8063302
11/25/20 12:22 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 27,891
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 27,891 |
It sounds to me like she’s doing great with the 22-250. If it isn’t broke....... She is doing great...my thoughts are, since it’s technically a varmint round, when I’m ready to move her to larger framed bucks, I feel she will need more knockdown power. I’m not trying to talk you in or out of the 22-250 But I’ll say my daughters buck weighed in at 158 lbs (live weight), he dropped like a rock right in the shoulder at 75 Lots of large framed S Texas bucks hit the ground every year with a 22-250. Neck & high shoulder shots and game over. Speed kills. My 22-250 is the most accurate rifle I own and it just flat out works on Texas deer and pigs. This is my experience not my opinion. Two years ago I shot a bedded down doe in the head at 200 yrds with mine and blew half of her head off. Guys at the skinning rack said “Good Lord man what’d you shoot her with a 300 Win Mag?”. They couldn’t believe that a 22-250 did that much damage...but nothing wrong with moving her up to a larger caliber if that’s what you wanna do, as long as she can shoot it well. My kids are deadly with the 22-250 and their 243’s.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063544
11/25/20 02:45 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,284
scalebuster
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,284 |
This buck never thought the 22-250 wasn’t enough gun.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: skinnerback]
#8063555
11/25/20 02:51 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,318
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,318 |
OP, you will get a ton on different opinions on any topic that gets brought up but especially this topic. Your gut tells you to move up to a little more gun and you are getting plenty of support on that but you wont ever get an agreement.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063714
11/25/20 04:37 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,168
Tactical Cowboy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 6,168 |
Although I read about the brutal recoil of the 30-06, all but one that I have shot have been pretty mild shooters. I have yet to find myself in a situation that a 30-06 wouldn't perform wonderfully.
The secret to a long life is to try not to shorten it.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8063733
11/25/20 05:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,835
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,835 |
I notice that this thread seems to concentrate on this round or that round has less recoil. Lighter rifle vs heavy rifle. I'm curious why nobody else besides myself has gone to a semi-auto action? IME, a semi-auto will tame the recoil of some really hard hitting rounds.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: unclebubba]
#8063757
11/25/20 06:04 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 27,891
skinnerback
THF Celebrity Chef
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THF Celebrity Chef
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 27,891 |
I notice that this thread seems to concentrate on this round or that round has less recoil. Lighter rifle vs heavy rifle. I'm curious why nobody else besides myself has gone to a semi-auto action? IME, a semi-auto will tame the recoil of some really hard hitting rounds. My 9 yr old Son shoots my 300 blk very well, as do I. Love that gun, many pigs went to heaven in front of it.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: unclebubba]
#8063930
11/25/20 01:57 PM
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 351
Nick1
OP
Bird Dog
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OP
Bird Dog
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 351 |
I notice that this thread seems to concentrate on this round or that round has less recoil. Lighter rifle vs heavy rifle. I'm curious why nobody else besides myself has gone to a semi-auto action? IME, a semi-auto will tame the recoil of some really hard hitting rounds. Could you recommend a few with light recoil? I’m not familiar with this set up, but would not be opposed to getting one. Thanks
Last edited by Nick1; 11/25/20 01:57 PM.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: unclebubba]
#8064271
11/25/20 06:00 PM
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,540
TexFlip
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 15,540 |
I notice that this thread seems to concentrate on this round or that round has less recoil. Lighter rifle vs heavy rifle. I'm curious why nobody else besides myself has gone to a semi-auto action? IME, a semi-auto will tame the recoil of some really hard hitting rounds. For me, I'd rather them shoot something manually operated. Less chance of an AD.
Just to make sure that it is done thoroughly, I go both ways.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: scalebuster]
#8064457
11/25/20 08:47 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 19,129
Biscuit
THF Celebrity
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Joined: Nov 2017
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This buck never thought the 22-250 wasn’t enough gun. Nice
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8064492
11/25/20 09:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469
vanguard
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,469 |
my friends kid 8yrs old and weighs about 65lbs has no problem with the creedmoor. I was a 243 shooter for many years but i would have to recommend the 6.5. the 6.5 killed the radio star (.243) the recoil on a 6.5 is more like a bark. it seems to jump more than push. thats the best way i can explain it.
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Re: Recoil for kid.
[Re: Nick1]
#8065094
11/26/20 06:51 AM
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,583
10 Gauge
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 3,583 |
I can’t say a whole lot on ballistics, I will let the internet experts sort that out. But I agree with Bobo the Clown on recoil. Most of not all Centerfires have stiff recoil for kids and kid sized guns kick extra hard. Even “just” a .243 in a kid sized gun can slap the dickens out of your cheek, I have been there and done that and am a 6’2” 310 pound guy.
The right cartridge depends on the gun and the kid. If highly motivated, they will happily shoot a gun that is a little stiff on recoil. The real question is can the kid manage the recoil and place the shot.
224 Valkyrie would be my pick for a kid. Because the factory specs are fast twist, and you can get factory loads with 90 grains and high sectional density. So you get 22-250 recoil but get factory ammo that will penetrate vitals without perfect broadside shot.
1 Thessalonians 4:11-14
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