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Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8046393 11/11/20 02:12 PM
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I don't know any of the parties involved in this story, but elk hunting is tough. There are many variables that go into seeing and harvesting a bull. I wouldn't believe anyone who says their success rate is 80% unless they can prove it. But I also know that it is very realistic that you can go hunt on excellent private land and not see a bull the entire hunt if the conditions aren't ideal.

The only thing I read in the story (and seems to somewhat be confirmed by the outfitter) is that the guide wasn't very familiar with the ranch. That being said, an experienced elk hunter doesn't need to be intimately familiar with the exact area he's hunting to be successful. And maybe the reason you only paid $5500 is because you weren't willing to pay for the best guide. $5500 is a lot of money for sure, but you clearly passed up a cow. Only an ignorant elk hunter would ever think there's a sure thing. I tell my newbie buddies all the time that the bull they pass on early in the trip may be the only bull they see for the rest of the week.

Frankly, I think it's petty on your part to call out the outfitter on a public forum when all indications point to you being completely uneducated on elk hunting.

Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: Gringo Bling] #8046527 11/11/20 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
I don't know any of the parties involved in this story, but elk hunting is tough. There are many variables that go into seeing and harvesting a bull. I wouldn't believe anyone who says their success rate is 80% unless they can prove it. But I also know that it is very realistic that you can go hunt on excellent private land and not see a bull the entire hunt if the conditions aren't ideal.

The only thing I read in the story (and seems to somewhat be confirmed by the outfitter) is that the guide wasn't very familiar with the ranch. That being said, an experienced elk hunter doesn't need to be intimately familiar with the exact area he's hunting to be successful. And maybe the reason you only paid $5500 is because you weren't willing to pay for the best guide. $5500 is a lot of money for sure, but you clearly passed up a cow. Only an ignorant elk hunter would ever think there's a sure thing. I tell my newbie buddies all the time that the bull they pass on early in the trip may be the only bull they see for the rest of the week.

Frankly, I think it's petty on your part to call out the outfitter on a public forum when all indications point to you being completely uneducated on elk hunting.


100% spot on. He's a crybaby because he didn't do his homework and set up REALISTIC hunting expectations for the type of hunt he bought.......


Marc C. Helfrich
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Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8046590 11/11/20 04:46 PM
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Not taking sides, just asking a question that was brought up.
80% success rate on elk.
Is that a normal score for guided hunts?


Cabin rental in Pagosa Springs, Co.
Sleeps 10, If interested please PM me.
Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: Mr. T.] #8046665 11/11/20 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Not taking sides, just asking a question that was brought up.
80% success rate on elk.
Is that a normal score for guided hunts?

I don't know what it is for NM, but the Colorado 2019 antlered elk harvest % success for all rifle seasons was only 14%. Obviously, private land and licensed guides will bring that success rate up significantly, but nowhere close to a 80% over an extended period of time.

Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8046675 11/11/20 05:32 PM
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I recently read an article that the success rate for *all* first-attempt Elk hunts (DIY and guided) is fairly low, like <25%. My experience with DIY has been generally disappointing and my experience with guided hunts has been generally positive, but the idea of "success rates" can be very deceiving, unless you're talking of high-fenced operations with high density of animals, and even then, hunting is hunting. I have the privilege of hunting my good friend's HF property and the idea that you're going to even get a shot at your desired target, let alone take it is highly overrated.

I have no experience with the outfitter here, and I am *bummed* that your experience was negative and that you weren't successful in your hunt. I've been there, and it sucks. But maybe the expectations here (from both sides) were not set up correctly?


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Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: Mr. T.] #8047581 11/12/20 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. T.
Not taking sides, just asking a question that was brought up.
80% success rate on elk.
Is that a normal score for guided hunts?


It can be very doable when you factor Cows. For any Bulls it’s very doable on specific ranches, but those ranches aren’t looking to shoot just any bull normally.

My buddy hunts a ranch in CO that’s 80% on big bulls but its 90k acres and ultra premium ranch.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8047613 11/12/20 03:21 AM
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i couldn't read all this stuff

my only take and opinion


a $5,000 elk is just going to be long walk in the woods


SPACE FOR RENT


Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8047803 11/12/20 11:21 AM
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Hunting is one of our biggest passions so when the farm/game/outfitter/guide/hunt/accommodation/food/etc does not live up to our expectations then I can understand the disappointment.

The key is to do one's research - especially about the aspects of the hunt that are most important to you - and to have realistic expectations. There may be farms where success rate is guaranteed due to a combination of the species being hunted, the population size, the type of terrain, the size of the property, hunting pressure and whether it is a low fence or high fence property. An eland on a high-fence property in the grassy hills of the Free State or E Cape interior can be guaranteed on say a 3-day hunt. The open terrain makes it easier to spot them and there are lots of undulations that allow you to get close. On high-fenced bushveld properties in Limpopo, an eland cannot be guaranteed. The bush can be very thick and they are very difficult to hunt in those conditions. Take away the high fences and this decreases the chance of success significantly as eland are great wanderers. Seeing them on the property today is no guarantee that they will be there tomorrow. It sounds like elk can also be difficult under certain conditions so one's expectation of success should be aligned with that. An 80-90% success rate sounds like good odds but it's still not 100%. There is always the chance that the elk will be their difficult and unpredictable selves and you will go home empty handed regardless of how hard the guide tries. It is hunting, after-all, and there should be no guarantees. Less so with free-range fair-chase hunting.

Nature served up those particular conditions while you were there which reduced your chances of success. It happens. It's happened to me too, on a number of occasions. 'Natural to feel a bit disappointed but cannot blame the farmer. It does not sound, to me, like he acted unreasonably. I do think he could have managed your expectation a bit better when you inquired whether the animals were being seen regularly. At the very least he should have responded to your message (sound like he didn't). Had he said that the current weather conditions weren't great and that they hadn't been seeing that many elk then your expectations might have been tempered.

[I personally prefer the system where you pay separately for accommodation, the hunting (day fees) and the animal. That way if you do not shoot the animal then you do not pay for the animal. However, the farmer still has the animal/tag which he can sell to someone else]

Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8048204 11/12/20 04:55 PM
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Here is another red flag that I missed.

I asked how many acres his ranch is. His reply is below.

When I asked for a location/map of “the ranch” he deflected to the fire.

Looking back.....he did it give a location because there are small properties all over.

[Linked Image]


For anyone considering Unit 46 in New Mexico, here is a quote from another forum.

[Linked Image]


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

PM for details
Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8049630 11/13/20 07:36 PM
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Is this the same James Duran that is the Forest Supervisor for the Carson National Forest?

Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: TWarren] #8049639 11/13/20 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by TWarren
Is this the same James Duran that is the Forest Supervisor for the Carson National Forest?


I am not sure. Here is a picture from their website.

Things just got very interesting but I will not be able to share until I am told that I can.

[Linked Image]


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

PM for details
Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8050008 11/14/20 12:45 AM
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Going to be bold here you went "Elk Hunting" and didn't see a bull and passed on shooting a cow elk. Things didn't work out in your favor. This was your first guided hunt and i know your a wiser man from your experience. Nothing is going to change the end results stings and feels the same.

The 2 Bulls I killed were with Swiftcreek Outfitters out of Wyoming thell treat you right.
Reach out and do it again.
Good hunting.

Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ #8053899 11/17/20 06:34 PM
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Couple updates for Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran

Not only are they absent from the registered outfitters list.

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/dow.../Active-Outfitters-Report-09_22_2020.pdf

James Duran is very present on the REVOKED list for hunting violations

http://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/wpf...alty-assessments-updated-09_04_2019-pdf/

Buyer BEWARE


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

PM for details
Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: 5Redman8] #8053991 11/17/20 07:39 PM
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Wow. I dont have a dog in this fight at all but I really feel bad for you that you are this bothered. Best of luck to all those involved and may the best man win.


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: freerange] #8054088 11/17/20 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Wow. I dont have a dog in this fight at all but I really feel bad for you that you are this bothered. Best of luck to all those involved and may the best man win.


Outfitter should post the OP’s name so other Outfitters can see what they are getting into.


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: BOBO the Clown] #8054229 11/17/20 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by freerange
Wow. I dont have a dog in this fight at all but I really feel bad for you that you are this bothered. Best of luck to all those involved and may the best man win.


Outfitter should post the OP’s name so other Outfitters can see what they are getting into.

I think Bobo is saying whats good for the goose is good for the gander. I dont take sides when I dont know both sides, but I think this goose/gander stuff always applies.


At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: 5Redman8] #8054282 11/17/20 11:11 PM
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This is at least the fourth thread that you've started on this topic.

You didn't do your due diligence, had unrealistic expectations for a hunt way under market value, passed on shooting an elk, and continue to seek sympathy from this forum.

Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: Gringo Bling] #8054359 11/18/20 12:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
This is at least the fourth thread that you've started on this topic.


Math not your strong suit???


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

PM for details
Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: 5Redman8] #8054427 11/18/20 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by 5Redman8
Math not your strong suit???


I’m not the one who can’t count….I’m glad my kids aren’t stuck with you as a teacher.

Below are your 4 posts on this same topic. Just give it a rest.

1. How Would You Feel If.....Question #1#8040904
2. What Does Spot and Stalk Mean To You....Question #2#8041082
3. 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 #8046393
4. Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++#8053899

Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: Gringo Bling] #8054439 11/18/20 01:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Gringo Bling
Originally Posted by 5Redman8
Math not your strong suit???


I’m not the one who can’t count….I’m glad my kids aren’t stuck with you as a teacher.

Below are your 4 posts on this same topic. Just give it a rest.

1. How Would You Feel If.....Question #1#8040904
2. What Does Spot and Stalk Mean To You....Question #2#8041082
3. 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 #8046393
4. Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++#8053899


You are missing some. Like I said math is not your strong suit!!!!

And guess what....I will post more!


AVOID.....Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures Chacon NM Elk Hunting. Owner James Duran

https://www.huntnorthnm.com/

PM for details
Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: 5Redman8] #8054440 11/18/20 01:24 AM
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Good God. Evidently, reading comprehension is not your strong suit. I clearly stated, "This is at least the fourth thread that you've started on this topic."
dead_horse

Last edited by Gringo Bling; 11/18/20 01:27 AM.
Re: Luna Canyon Outdoor Adventures James Duran +++UPDATE+++ [Re: 5Redman8] #8054470 11/18/20 01:39 AM
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It's a dingleberry issue. He can't clean it up.

Re: 'Luna Canyon Outfitters Chacón NM Elk Hunt 11/2-11/6 [Re: 5Redman8] #8054574 11/18/20 03:02 AM
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Both sides got to state their side. James Duran responded. Time to move on.


Originally Posted by Sitkahunter
Let start this off by saying, your guide for the first 2 days was shown the property, given direction on how to hunt the elk and what to do in each property you hunted.
He knew the boundaries of the property, he is an experienced and successful elk hunter him self so therefore he was more then qualified to be your guide on your hunt.
Elk are not like white tails or any other animal you have probably hunted. No matter how much you’ve scouted for them or put out trail cameras they never do the same thing ever, especially in a late season hunt. So as for scouting none of my guides do it, I’m the one who does it. Ive been hunting these same ranches since September 1st pretty much every single day. Same goes for my lead guide isaiah. So I know what these elk do, he knows what these elk do. All of this information was passed on to your guide Anthony.
Personally I talked to Anthony and he said he never told you he had never set foot on these ranches, he did tell me he said to you he’s hasn’t guide for me as much as isaiah and my other guys. Which I do believe because I have ranches that are 20-30 min away from camp and some that are 5-10 min from camp. If he had never been to the ranches he would have never know how to even get to these properties.

When booking this hunt It was booked as a 100% fair chase hunt. “Fair Chase” means no guarantee on anything. I never once guaranteed you an opportunity, I never guaranteed you an animal. I guaranteed you that you would be able to “hunt” elk.
I did say 80% success rate, because that’s what my success rate has been the passed 3 years, I can give you 25+ different references from those passed years, and they would all vouch for me. It just so happen you end up on a hunt with a full moon, drought conditions, and warm temps That how hunting goes. All season has been tough with these same factors being an issues. Every season can not be perfect.

I know you’re paying me money to hunt elk. And that’s what my guys did. They took you out in the mornings to try and make something happen even if that means walking through the woods trying to get something to move. They were still out there hunting and trying get you an elk.
In the evening we sit and wait, doesn’t matter if a guide is with you or not. They set you up where they feel is the best spot in hopes that something will come by you. .

The way I see it is we can’t please everyone. You went out and did what you paid for and came here to do.... “HUNT ELK” And that is exactly what you did no matter what, You’re guide was an experienced hunter, and elk guide.

Sorry it didn’t turn out the way you wanted it, but that is why it’s called hunting and not killing.


And if anyone else has any questions for me feel free to reach out.
Thank you!
James Duran


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