MARKET SURVEY :

I am wanting to put this to the user base for digital or thermal scopes Liz

Battery runtime will be 8 hours or more and rechargeable .

External power supply options aside (not withstanding) what is your preference for $ 2k or more equipment and internal battery supplies.

Warranty on the scope is 4 years and covers the internal battery going out - after 4 years your on your own...

It would also be nice if you could add a comment explaining your vote !

Much appreciated -

Internal battery - non-user serviceable : yes or no ???? single choice
	YES - for internal rechargeable battery
	NO - I prefer to use user interchangeable batteries
Votes accepted starting: 11/09/20 07:46 PM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

One thing is for certain, batteries will go bad.

FLIR with their RS series of rifle scopes and Pulsar with their Thermions have internal, non-user serviceable batteries, and I think that is a really bad idea. It helped assure the failure of the FLIR RS scopes. The Pulsars have a 2nd, interchangeable battery, but they are proprietary and freaking outrageously expensive for what they are.

So after 4 years, if the internal battery goes bad, you are just screwed, particularly if it leaks or otherwise ruins the other electronics in the scope because the user cannot remove the battery when the scope is not in use. Ever see a cell phone battery run away (overheat) or swell with time?

I would suggest running scopes on commercially available, non-proprietary rechargeable batteries. It will keep the price down for the user and save on service hassles and complaints to the manufacturer. I would also suggest they all have the option for external power as well.

I'm with DNS, internal, non owner serviceable batteries to me are a mark against any given scope. Being able to remove them to prevent corrosion in long term storage and change them out for new ones when they start getting weak is a much better option. JMO

Agree with DNS

I believe there are really 3 options here.
1) Internal non-removable rechargeable batteries.
2) Removable rechargeable proprietary batteries. (ex. Pulsar Trail)
3) Disposable batteries such as CR123A etc (ex. Hogsters, Pulsar Core etc)

While I appreciate the long run times of the internal batteries, I can't imagine many people who would chose that option over the #2 removable/rechargeable propriety battery option. Granted, some people still don't like the proprietary battery option even if it's removable and they'd chose #3, disposable batteries or using their own (off the shelf) rechargeable batteries.

I personally would chose #2 if the battery was affordable ($100 or less) and it lasted for 4-6+ hours. Everything else I own has a proprietary battery, some removable, some not.....iPhone, laptop, digital camera, tablet etc. If the batteries are good, I'm ok with it. Yes there will be a day that I probably can't buy batteries for that device any more but as long as I can go 6-8+ years buying batteries, I'm ok with that. Most all electronics will eventually be shoved into a drawer and not used because they become outdated. Remember those $3,000 computers or $1,500 video cameras?

I am also ok with #3 if I can get at least 3 hours of battery life out of the scope because I can buy Energizer 123A batteries for $1.40/each so that means I'm running the scope for $1/hr or less.

#1 is the worst possible option but more and more optics and other electronics are moving this way and I think it's going to become even more common as we move into the future.

If was a thermal manufacturer I'd choose #2 with a proprietary removable battery, even if it upped the cost of the scope by $100-$250 each. If that wasn't an option, I'd go with #3.

That's my 2 cents.

Jason

I don't know. It kind of chaps my arse knowing that Pulsar is charging $80-100 for a proprietary battery that isn't of any special material, that does the same thing much cheaper commercial batteries would do for a fifth of the price, but Pulsar made them proprietary so that the consumer can only come to them. They could have run with commercially available battery sizes and reduced the cost of the scope to the consumers.

THE PROBLEM WITH PROPRIETARY BATTERIES IS THAT THE CONSUMER IS STUCK PAYING MONOPOLY PRICES WHICH ARE EXCESSIVELY HIGH AND WHEN THE MANUFACTURER STOPS MAKING THEM, THE CONSUMER IS SCREWED.

Batteries only have a limited life and their performance will decline over time. It can be several years, but Pulsar has replaced a bunch of batteries under warranty because they didn't last that long. Pulsar is a great company for having such a good warranty and dealing with its customers very well. However, when you get a battery, you hope it will last a long time, and most probably will, but a lot will fail prematurely. I had to return a Trail battery that stopped accepted charges after the 6th or 7th hunt.

So let's say that you saved your pennies and bought your $4000-5000 thermal scope. It is your most expensive piece of kit. You hunt a few times a year, maybe 20 or 30. That scope could last you 10 years or more quite easily, but will you be able to get batteries for it in 5 years? 8 years? 10?

Also, the proprietary batteries require a proprietary charger.

I agree with above. I have a Sightmark Wraith and really like the convenience of the AA batteries. I just buy 100 at a time from Amazon and replace them each outing so I don't have to worry about them going dead at the most inopportune time. At first I was buying the expensive lithium AA batteries but at some point they will die, again at the most inopportune time. They are too expensive to replace each outing, at least for me. I guess I could go with rechargeable but I will have to keep track of them and will forget to charge or forget which are charged and which are not.

I'm in basic agreement with DNS. An internal, non-replaceable battery would be a non-starter for me. A modular battery like on Pulsar would be okay, but I'd also like the option to get a similar case into which I could put my own batteries. Maybe the manufacturer's battery would run longer, but I would worry about replacements being unavailable as time passed. Also, if there's a case for owner-supplied batteries, it should be able to use rechargeable batteries. If the run time is less than roughly 2-3 hours the option for an external battery would be good, although I suppose spare batteries/packs are another acceptable option.

I’ve hand the pulsar XQ50 Trail for 2 1/2 years under warranty I’ve had 2 ips5 batteries replaced I’ve also ordered 2 ips10 batteries off amazon that where DOA and returned both for refund. To run a thermal only of a external rechargeable battery pack would be fine for me cheap replacements are easy to find

Not much more to be said, other than i prefer an option to supply my battery when it is dead or dying. I prefer simple AA, CR123, or whatever, something I can find pretty easily at the store. I am not opposed to a proprietary battery but like DNS said hate they are grossly overpriced for what they are. Would be nice to have a unit that could accept external battery packs such as a phone charger with a miniusb or something like that. That way we could pick and choose our pack of choice.

I have 3 thermal scopes....and I can tell you it absolutely sucks to use the 123A batteries if you do a lot of hunting with them. I burned through easily a $100 worth of those before I got smart and bit the bullet and bought an external battery pack for my Mark 2, which is a million times better and lasts easily 2-3x as long.
I would never buy a scope with an internal battery either. I prefer the external rechargeable battery packs, even if a spare costs $80. It's cheaper long term and easier than dealing with packs of the 123's, IMO. If you don't use it much then I guess for some the disposable batteries are fine, but I dislike dealing with them and buying them.

Pulsar has battery packs you can buy to use AA on the Helion and Trail, or their IPS rechargeable battery packs....that's the best design, IMO.

Pulsar has battery packs you can buy to use AA on the Helion and Trail, I bet 3 aa batteries won’t last 2 hrs now if they made one for the shorter size of 18650 rechargeables that would be fantastic. I do like the IPS batteries but I’ve already replaced 4 of them

I agree with Doc. It didn't take me long after going through numerous AA batteries to get a EPS5 battery pack for my Pulsar Quantum handheld monocular. Sometimes I go out at dusk and stay out til 2am or so.(My wife thinks I have a problem and when I identify this disease I'll seek help). I didn't like changing batteries every three hours or so. The EPS5 pack will last 12 hours. The reason I won't consider a Thermion is the battery situation. My XQ50 Trail will go about seven hours with the IPS5 and with my spare I'm good for all night. And after three years using them I've never had a problem with them keeping a charge. I just ordered the IPS10 that suppose to be good for 20 hours. My son in law also has a Trail XQ50 so he'll get one of my IPS5. And yeah they're not cheap but for me worth it. Everyone's situation is different and you may not be as "diseased" as I am.

I really like a big, honkin' rechargeable battery pack that'll last all night. Short of that, a pocketful of AAs; nothing like being set up two miles from camp and discovering that your spare set of batts is drained...

I'm not a fan of any internal batteries or external pack. 99.9% of the reason I bought a trail xp, I despise having to carry a bunch on 123a, and hate cords for the externals. I would be up for a removable internal rechargeable bc the weight of the trail does suck.