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Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference #7991531 09/29/20 01:34 AM
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StraitShot Offline OP
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I am looking at an Optika6 4.5-27X50 (nice price for the package) and considering reticles. I generally like an uncluttered view but am wondering how many of you all use hold-over vs dial-in for hunting at ranges greater than 300yrds.. Lets set the limit here to 500yrds. I know we could get into all kinds of questions but in general just curious about what most of you all prefer.

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991542 09/29/20 01:38 AM
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Dialing vs. holding for me depends on the amount of time I have for the shot and how precise I need to be. My come up on my 16" 308 at 300 yards is 1.2 mils, and is an easy hold for in the field. If I have time, I will dial that so I can hold straight center reticle. I prefer to dial since it's more precise to dial than it is to hold. But I like having a mil reticle to allow a hold, if needed.



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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991546 09/29/20 01:41 AM
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When hunting it’s all about time.

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991574 09/29/20 02:00 AM
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I agree with wp75169.
For hunting it's often about time.
At reasonable hunting ranges I'd rather know my rifle and my load.
When the moment presents itself i can holdover as necessary.,


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: wp75169] #7991578 09/29/20 02:01 AM
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I've gotten use to hold over to a degree... and animals generally don't hold still long enough for me to dial... the BDC is "ugly" by some standards but that kind of layout useful if it's not too cluttered.... as Chad points out.. nice to have both options..

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991613 09/29/20 02:27 AM
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If time is important - hold
If precision is important - dial

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991942 09/29/20 01:16 PM
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As had already been said, it's all about time. I've dialed and held, probably 50/50.

A simple Mil reticle with .5 Mil hashes works very well.

6.5 Creedmoor
100 0
200 .4
300 1.0
400 1.8
500 2.6

7mm-08
100 0
200 .5
300 1.2
400 2.0
500 3.0

Couple of examples


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991968 09/29/20 01:34 PM
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Like others, I’ve dialed, BDC’d, and used holdover (without BDC). If the shot is on deer, pig, or coyote and is under 300 yards, I’ll usually just hold over. More than that, I’ll dial if time allows. And if it’s a deer beyond 300, I probably won’t shoot at all. Pigs and coyotes will get shot at inside 500 yards.


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991990 09/29/20 01:48 PM
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If you plan on holdover, be sure and get the FFP version. SFP the hash marks are good only at one zoom setting. I regret having a BDC reticle on a SFP rifle. It's too easy to hold over using the hash marks when on the wrong zoom setting.

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7991995 09/29/20 01:50 PM
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BDC is a Nikon reticle.

Mil or MOA is Mil or MOA, and a long list of manufacturers make them. There is also a long list of ballistic calculators that will also speak in Mil or MOA.


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7992248 09/29/20 04:46 PM
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Perhaps the BDC name belongs to Nikon, but I refer to reticles with bullet drop lines, such as the Leupold Varmint Hunter reticle, as BDC type reticles. And unclebubba’s point about those lines in SFP scopes being only good at one magnification was good to mention. If a person wants to determine what distances the lines are good for for a specific scope at various magnifications, the iStrelok app is very good for doing that.


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: 603Country] #7992308 09/29/20 05:29 PM
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You probably call a magazine a clip, too. bolt


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: FiremanJG] #7992363 09/29/20 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
BDC is a Nikon reticle.

Mil or MOA is Mil or MOA, and a long list of manufacturers make them. There is also a long list of ballistic calculators that will also speak in Mil or MOA.


Fireman, you are usually spot on with optics, but not this time.

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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: Adchunts] #7992755 09/29/20 11:50 PM
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Ok, they took it from Nikon.

It is still chit, no matter who makes it.


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: FiremanJG] #7992803 09/30/20 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Ok, they took it from Nikon.

It is still chit, no matter who makes it.

roflmao


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: FiremanJG] #7993864 09/30/20 09:48 PM
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I have been following the conversation and it is helpful. Thank all of you for your perspectives. To this point most of my scopes have been Leupold Duplex or fine Duplex. They are great for 200yrds and a little further if you sight high at 200yrs and know your drop. Great for woods or semi-open places. None of them have open turrets. My first ‘turret’ scope was a NightForce SHV I purchased for a different project.

However, now I am planning an Aoudad hunt and the recommendation is to be comfortable with shots out to 400yrds. Hence my question about your practices in general and at that range I anticipate using the higher end of the magnification range.

So, I am use to hold-over, FFP, MOA, and a clear field of view from the reticle. That is what brought me to the “ugly BDC” type reticle as opposed to the MRAD etc.. BDC type has it’s sort comings as there are fewer aim points but how often does that come into play in a hunting situation? I can easily come up quick or have the option of dial if circumstances permit. And it freely admit I don’t know enough about MILs to comment.

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7993939 09/30/20 10:57 PM
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The difference past 300 becomes significant of most rifles. On my rifle 300-350-400 yards looks like 14-21-30 inches below a 100 yard zero. I think the finest increments you get is best if going to use your reticle for hold. Also a true MIL/MOA reticle will be better than a generic BDC. The BDC can not be calculated and the drop is not perfect arc but a parabolic arc. Also halfway between two lines is not equal to half the distance of those lines. The bottom line is MIL/MOA can be calculated while BDC can not. If you know the bullet you are shooting and how fast it is going the trajectory can be calculated for any distance and used on the mil/moa reticle whereas a generic bdc will have to test fires at various ranges for best guess scenarios.

I know my answer isn’t very clear but I was having trouble understanding exactly what the question is. The bottom line from me is given the option I’d take a true MOA or MIL reticle over a BDC everyday. A BDC will work up to a limited range with limited points in that range. MOA/MIL will work at any range.

What my drops look like on a calculated MIL.

[Linked Image]


The one that says “path mils” is my hold or amount to dial at those given ranges. I can break the calculation down to Yard increments as fine as I want.


Hell I almost confused me here. Hope it helps.

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7994061 10/01/20 12:55 AM
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Leupold has the Boone and Crockett reticle that is pretty nice for hunting. They provide rough estimates for each mark then you can verify yardages at the range. I verified mine out to 400. Worked good on an elk at 373 and aoudad at 370.


Originally Posted by syncerus
I prefer to think of myself as a control enthusiast. wink
Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7994078 10/01/20 01:11 AM
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Jeffbird - I think your point as you stated it makes sense. I get the BDC -vs- Mil / MOA dot... good point...so I am off the BDC. I also agree with your other points having experience Mule Deer hunting in West Texas.. The bench is good for load development and working out other bugs.. but you do have to get comfortable with other shooting positions and be able to deliver at range. I shot prone, laying across boulders and propped up against scrub.... it's all fun but you do have to be confident you can deliver the shot and getting off the bench is the only way to do that...

Meopta has a mildot but I am still deciding what I think about it...

https://www.meoptasportsoptics.com/...ryDoc/Root/Reticles/reticle-MRad1-RD.pdf

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: Big Fitz] #7994084 10/01/20 01:15 AM
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Hey Big Fitz... I actually have that on my Tikka 7mm-08 and the B&C works reasonably well... my concern is reaching out a but further and getting a bump in magnification. Plus, I am getting a little education in dial vs hold... interesting.

Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7994122 10/01/20 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by StraitShot
I have been following the conversation and it is helpful. Thank all of you for your perspectives. To this point most of my scopes have been Leupold Duplex or fine Duplex. They are great for 200yrds and a little further if you sight high at 200yrs and know your drop. Great for woods or semi-open places. None of them have open turrets. My first ‘turret’ scope was a NightForce SHV I purchased for a different project.

However, now I am planning an Aoudad hunt and the recommendation is to be comfortable with shots out to 400yrds. Hence my question about your practices in general and at that range I anticipate using the higher end of the magnification range.

So, I am use to hold-over, FFP, MOA, and a clear field of view from the reticle. That is what brought me to the “ugly BDC” type reticle as opposed to the MRAD etc.. BDC type has it’s sort comings as there are fewer aim points but how often does that come into play in a hunting situation? I can easily come up quick or have the option of dial if circumstances permit. And it freely admit I don’t know enough about MILs to comment.


Look at the numbers I mentioned.

Then look at a Mil reticle. Pretty easy to use the ruler, and that's all it is, a ruler.


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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7994135 10/01/20 02:05 AM
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Get a good rangefinder and a Leupold VX5 3-15 with CDS for your chosen hunting load.

I’ve used BDC and holdover, with decades of holdover being used most. Inside 300 yards I am very confident with my shooting, but get much past that using holdover and my confidence wobbles a bit. BDC has too few dots or lines, and you run the risk of not having just the line you need for the distance you’ll be shooting, so guesswork enters the picture. Same with holdover. For precise shooting a good FFP scope with turrets is probably your best bet, or that Leupold with CDS (which is what I am using now). If you go with the VX5, which I do recommend, be sure to get the firedot. Or spend more money and get the VX6.

Last edited by 603Country; 10/01/20 02:06 AM.

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Re: Hold-Over vs Dial-In Preference [Re: StraitShot] #7994154 10/01/20 02:19 AM
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Like Fireman said, a mil reticle with 1/2 mil increments is easy to memorize your holds to 400 yards with any caliber or load. I think it looks cleaner than a BDC. Everything is symmetrical.

Last edited by scottfromdallas; 10/01/20 02:20 AM.




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