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Another hunting-related quote from the past #7990107 09/27/20 09:58 PM
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Texas Dan Offline OP
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"As all hunters, the people of the Americas relied on the skills of stalking, tracking, and trapping to get close to their quarry, so the range and power of the weapon were not so important as the craft of hunting."

Robert Hardy - Longbow: A Social and Military History (1976)


Dan

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7990674 09/28/20 01:48 PM
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& nowadays, we have stands with feeders & don’t hunt for subsistence, but sport.

Times change

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7990710 09/28/20 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
"As all hunters, the people of the Americas relied on the skills of stalking, tracking, and trapping to get close to their quarry, so the range and power of the weapon were not so important as the craft of hunting."

Robert Hardy - Longbow: A Social and Military History (1976)


Very few real hunters anymore. Just a whole lot of "shooters from a great distance".


To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.

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Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7990830 09/28/20 03:42 PM
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Here we go, again.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7990903 09/28/20 04:49 PM
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This may be an unpopular opinion but I think how we bring up young hunters today is part of the problem. 30-40 years ago a kid would start off on rabbits, squirrels and other small game probably because there weren't nearly as many deer and pigs as there are now, so the kid got lots of practice trying to slip through the woods quietly and lots of shots from field positions. Now, and I've been guilty of this with my kids, we almost immediately start them off stand hunting for deer or pigs.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7990907 09/28/20 04:55 PM
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Once people started claiming land as their own things had to change. Gone are the days stalking for game without possibly crossing boundaries. Shared leases also make the stalk hunt hard to do. We don't allow it even though its a big property. Too much liability.


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7990932 09/28/20 05:15 PM
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My heater and Thermo Cell work better when I'm nearby. Hope to be in a tree for archery though.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Hudbone] #7991145 09/28/20 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
Here we go, again.


I have him on ignore, I’m tempted to see how stupid it is this time, but I really don’t want to loose more faith in humanity


Donate to TX Youth hunting program.... better to donate then to waste it in taxes

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Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7991148 09/28/20 08:35 PM
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Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7991207 09/28/20 09:23 PM
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seriously

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7991436 09/29/20 12:43 AM
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I don’t see anything wrong with that quote.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7991735 09/29/20 04:30 AM
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The conclusions and value seen in any quote is left up entirely to the person who reads it.

"The whitetail deer is now, and we hope always will be, the big game of the common man" - Lawrence R. Koller, Shots at Whitetails (1948)


Last edited by Texas Dan; 09/29/20 04:36 AM.

Dan

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7991935 09/29/20 01:13 PM
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I don't believe that quote is accurate if you consider how the buffalo were wiped from the continent. It was all about range and power, and very little stalking and tracking.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: kdkane1971] #7992011 09/29/20 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by kdkane1971
I don't believe that quote is accurate if you consider how the buffalo were wiped from the continent. It was all about range and power, and very little stalking and tracking.

but that was not for the sole purpose of survival by the hunter, it was by "hunters" looking for person profit in shamelessly killing for the pelt.


"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."

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Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993134 09/30/20 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
"As all hunters, the people of the Americas relied on the skills of stalking, tracking, and trapping to get close to their quarry, so the range and power of the weapon were not so important as the craft of hunting."

Robert Hardy - Longbow: A Social and Military History (1976)


Hi Dan,

If the reason for hunting was subsistence or protection of one's livestock and/or crops then I think the hunters wanted to make the kill as quickly as possible with whatever means at their disposal. The skills of stalking and tracking were crucial to get the hunter within the effective range of their weapons but their weapons had a relatively short effective range by today's standards. The effective range grew as hunting weapons evolved from clubs, spears, bows, cap & ball blackpowder to modern gunpowder and rifled weapons. So I think that the range and power of the weapon were equally important as the craft of hunting for this group. Using centre-fire cartridges from the late 1800's onwards, they no longer needed to get as close to their quarry as when they used more primitive weapons. There are very few people in today's world who need to hunt in order to survive. Agriculture has seen to that. It is far easier to pop into the supermarket and get whatever meat you want than have to hunt it yourself. I exclude the true subsistence hunters who still exists from this conversation. Today, those who hunt purely to protect their livestock and/or crops probably also want to do it as quickly and efficiently as possible. Today's modern weapons, ammunition, telescopic sights, rangefinders etc etc mean that they can shoot animals at crazy distances and the need for stalking and tracking has further diminished. Furthermore, the use of camera traps, nightvision equipment, drones, etc have helped this group of people to be more effective.

I think the majority of people who hunt nowadays are not doing it to protect their own or the farmer's livestock or crops. We don't NEED to hunt for food anymore. We hunt because we choose to as a form of recreation. At the end of the day, we all pull the trigger / release the arrow that will hopefully result in a clean kill. However, what takes place prior to the shot is where we all differ and what we often argue about. My process is better than yours. My process is more ethical than yours. My process is more rewarding than yours. My process is real hunting while yours is something else. I would never want anyone's right to choose how they go about their process prior to taking the shot to be restricted in any way - provided it was legal and the aim was to effect a clean kill. To each their own. At the same time I recognise that there are vast differences in people's respective approaches and I think that there is space for rational discussion, debate and introspection about how we do things, not least of all to understand each other better. I have changed my perspective on a number of things over the years through better understanding those who do things differently to me.

Adapted from Robert Hardy: "All modern hunters, in the America's and beyond, will choose to hunt in the way that they personally prefer, within the laws of their country. There will be some who choose to hunt in a way that requires a level of physical conditioning to walk the plains, forests and mountains, and to apply the skills of finding, stalking and tracking, to get close to their quarry. For them, the range and power of the weapon is not so important as the craft involved."

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993207 09/30/20 11:45 AM
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Good post.

At the end of the day, it's not so much how we ourselves practice the sport and respect the resource but how the non-hunting majority view our attitudes and actions in the field...

"To keep our opportunity to hunt, we must always remember that wildlife belongs to all the people. The future of hunting depends upon how the majority of people view hunters. These people form their opinions when they see how we hunt and how we care for, and about, wildlife." - Jim Posewitz, Beyond Fair Chase


Dan

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993219 09/30/20 11:56 AM
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We also graduated from spears to bows, and from bows to fire arms, and from black powder to center fires, from stone arrow heads to metal and expandable broad heads, from long bows to compounds, from wood arrows to aluminum and carbon. Some people just like to think thier way is the only way and the most superior way. Dan is one of those people.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: JCB] #7993264 09/30/20 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
We also graduated from spears to bows, and from bows to fire arms, and from black powder to center fires, from stone arrow heads to metal and expandable broad heads, from long bows to compounds, from wood arrows to aluminum and carbon. Some people just like to think thier way is the only way and the most superior way. Dan is one of those people.



Until we graduate ourselves for more formidable weapons, I seriously doubt the non-hunting majority really cares about whether we use firearms, bows and arrows, or even spears. No, if we should get called out in the future for our practices, it will be how others view the manner in which we demonstrate respect for the animal by giving it sufficient chance to elude us.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 09/30/20 12:40 PM.

Dan

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993265 09/30/20 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
"The whitetail deer is now, and we hope always will be, the big game of the common man" - Lawrence R. Koller, Shots at Whitetails (1948)


Tell “the common man” to go buy his own place that is capable of sustaining whatever game he wants to shoot.



Last edited by maximus_flavius; 09/30/20 12:41 PM.
Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993295 09/30/20 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Good post.

At the end of the day, it's not so much how we ourselves practice the sport and respect the resource but how the non-hunting majority view our attitudes and actions in the field...

"To keep our opportunity to hunt, we must always remember that wildlife belongs to all the people. The future of hunting depends upon how the majority of people view hunters. These people form their opinions when they see how we hunt and how we care for, and about, wildlife." - Jim Posewitz, Beyond Fair Chase


It is sad that the general public is increasingly further removed from nature, how things work in ecosystems. My son explained to a friend visiting our house that the hunting trophies on the wall are memories of times we spent in the bush and the animals that we hunted and that we ate the meat of those animals. His friend replied "but why don't you just buy the meat at the supermarket?" Classic. Clearly his folks didn't teach him where his meat came from. I think that we are going to have our hands full trying to win over the support of the non-hunting majority. We need really good education and PR programmes to have a chance of winning.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: maximus_flavius] #7993502 09/30/20 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus_flavius
Originally Posted by Texas Dan
"The whitetail deer is now, and we hope always will be, the big game of the common man" - Lawrence R. Koller, Shots at Whitetails (1948)


Tell “the common man” to go buy his own place that is capable of sustaining whatever game he wants to shoot.


Therein rests what some might see as another hot button issue - Those who purchase ten or twenty acres of land expecting to fill the white tail bag limits of all their family members who hunt it.

Last edited by Texas Dan; 09/30/20 03:48 PM.

Dan

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993566 09/30/20 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by JCB
We also graduated from spears to bows, and from bows to fire arms, and from black powder to center fires, from stone arrow heads to metal and expandable broad heads, from long bows to compounds, from wood arrows to aluminum and carbon. Some people just like to think thier way is the only way and the most superior way. Dan is one of those people.



Until we graduate ourselves for more formidable weapons, I seriously doubt the non-hunting majority really cares about whether we use firearms, bows and arrows, or even spears. No, if we should get called out in the future for our practices, it will be how others view the manner in which we demonstrate respect for the animal by giving it sufficient chance to elude us.

I told you last time I don’t give a flying flip about what non hunters think. You on the other hand seem to be obsessed with it almost to the point you consider yourself some sort of ambassador for hunting.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: JCB] #7993606 09/30/20 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JCB
I told you last time I don’t give a flying flip about what non hunters think. You on the other hand seem to be obsessed with it almost to the point you consider yourself some sort of ambassador for hunting.


I'll take that as a compliment JCB. After all, recognizing oneself as being an ambassador of the sport is the trademark of a true sportsman.


Dan

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993721 09/30/20 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by JCB
I told you last time I don’t give a flying flip about what non hunters think. You on the other hand seem to be obsessed with it almost to the point you consider yourself some sort of ambassador for hunting.


I'll take that as a compliment JCB. After all, recognizing oneself as being an ambassador of the sport is the trademark of a true sportsman.


You tripped on your arrogance again Dan.

Nobody called you an Ambassador to the sport except for you. That's not a compliment, that's arrogance.

Re: Another hunting-related quote from the past [Re: Texas Dan] #7993761 09/30/20 07:54 PM
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