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Feb 5th, 2020
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Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? #7962992 09/06/20 12:14 PM
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Curious: are hunters still actively pursuing deer and hunting leases in spite of all the troubles?

Or, are deer leases being more actively pursued by individuals?

I really want to know, not just killing time....

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7963121 09/06/20 03:45 PM
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Im looking for one and cant find one that isnt 400 miles away


Originally Posted By: Chief Joe
I avoid Dick's and hope they fold.
Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7963153 09/06/20 04:23 PM
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I see a lot of trophy hunting cancellations but not a bunch of leases open. I think timing may have played into a lot of places already being paid for. Next year will probably be different, especially if the price of oil stays low.

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7963172 09/06/20 04:44 PM
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Thank You KRMitchell!

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7963217 09/06/20 05:35 PM
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I have a friend who is an outfitter and could not handle all the calls in April for guys wanting to reschedule hunts for next year. By June he could not handle all the calls from guys wanting to book hunts for this coming deer season. He is booked out for 3 yrs on Mule Deer hunts and booked this year along with most of next year on WT hunts. Leases will always be in high demand...just way more hunters than land to hunt on. Along with more acreages being split up and sold to people who want to own their own land will take a lot of hunting ground out of the lease acreage totals every year.


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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7963275 09/06/20 06:50 PM
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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7963345 09/06/20 08:31 PM
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As long as our state's population continues to grow, quality leases will keep getting harder to find. Some segment of the Texas economy will cycle up while others down but I think there will always be a high demand for recreational land.

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: stxranchman] #7963441 09/06/20 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
I have a friend who is an outfitter and could not handle all the calls in April for guys wanting to reschedule hunts for next year. By June he could not handle all the calls from guys wanting to book hunts for this coming deer season. He is booked out for 3 yrs on Mule Deer hunts and booked this year along with most of next year on WT hunts. Leases will always be in high demand...just way more hunters than land to hunt on. Along with more acreages being split up and sold to people who want to own their own land will take a lot of hunting ground out of the lease acreage totals every year.



you are dead on - people are running from the metro areas due to the unrest and looking to "live in the country" even if it is only 5 acres. Cannot blame them - so folks are now willing to sell their ranch/property to developers because the demand is so high and the money they will make is astronomical. As one generation fades away most likely the following generation does not care as much about keeping a property and would rather sell and have the $$

Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7965227 09/08/20 03:08 PM
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I think lease searches continue and is getting harder and harder every year and more and more costs. Fulll access annual leases are hard to find and if a good one you better have your case in hand group pre-committed. As other mentioned, the outfitters though have some very good deals due to cancellations and probably will continue through this season on some last minute deals. I just heard of a upper midwest state that outfitter had reached out to some prospective hunters saying due to cancellations he was offering some great deals to get some cashflow.

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7965804 09/08/20 09:44 PM
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Thanks !

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: tlk] #7965834 09/08/20 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tlk
Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


Yeah, there's ways around that.

I don't want you to ever lose your lease, but, in my opinion, that's arrogant and stupid. 'Hope it's not the Nature Conservancy. 'Good way to screw your family. So many men get caught up in their perceived "legacy", what they've achieved, what they've been able to buy, etc., etc. None of us will be remembered a couple of generations down the line. Grow up.

Although not nearly that much acreage, my kids have strict instructions to sell it and split the money four ways. I've learned from experience, it's the only way to keep peace. And if there's a legal way to force them, I'm looking into it.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: Creekrunner] #7966021 09/09/20 12:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Originally Posted by tlk
Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


Yeah, there's ways around that.

I don't want you to ever lose your lease, but, in my opinion, that's arrogant and stupid. 'Hope it's not the Nature Conservancy. 'Good way to screw your family. So many men get caught up in their perceived "legacy", what they've achieved, what they've been able to buy, etc., etc. None of us will be remembered a couple of generations down the line. Grow up.

Although not nearly that much acreage, my kids have strict instructions to sell it and split the money four ways. I've learned from experience, it's the only way to keep peace. And if there's a legal way to force them, I'm looking into it.

My grandparents did that with their house. Even though my mother was living there when they passed. She was the only one of the "kids" that didn't own their own home.

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: jetdad] #7966192 09/09/20 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jetdad
As long as our state's population continues to grow, quality leases will keep getting harder to find. Some segment of the Texas economy will cycle up while others down but I think there will always be a high demand for recreational land.

x2


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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: Creekrunner] #7970931 09/12/20 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Originally Posted by tlk
Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


Yeah, there's ways around that.

I don't want you to ever lose your lease, but, in my opinion, that's arrogant and stupid. 'Hope it's not the Nature Conservancy. 'Good way to screw your family. So many men get caught up in their perceived "legacy", what they've achieved, what they've been able to buy, etc., etc. None of us will be remembered a couple of generations down the line. Grow up.

Although not nearly that much acreage, my kids have strict instructions to sell it and split the money four ways. I've learned from experience, it's the only way to keep peace. And if there's a legal way to force them, I'm looking into it.

Perhaps those owners care more about the natural legacy of their land than to see it subdivided and developed?

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7971319 09/12/20 10:38 PM
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I think most landowners know their children well enough to know if the kids will sell or not. They may think the kids don't realize how hard it s to acquire property but will in time.

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: tlk] #7972285 09/13/20 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by stxranchman
I have a friend who is an outfitter and could not handle all the calls in April for guys wanting to reschedule hunts for next year. By June he could not handle all the calls from guys wanting to book hunts for this coming deer season. He is booked out for 3 yrs on Mule Deer hunts and booked this year along with most of next year on WT hunts. Leases will always be in high demand...just way more hunters than land to hunt on. Along with more acreages being split up and sold to people who want to own their own land will take a lot of hunting ground out of the lease acreage totals every year.



you are dead on - people are running from the metro areas due to the unrest and looking to "live in the country" even if it is only 5 acres. Cannot blame them - so folks are now willing to sell their ranch/property to developers because the demand is so high and the money they will make is astronomical. As one generation fades away most likely the following generation does not care as much about keeping a property and would rather sell and have the $$

Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often



There are different types of Trusts.

If the property is income producing then the Trust is set up so the kids will keep deriving income off of it. Alot of times land trusts are like a rainy day fund that the Trust will order the land to be liquidated to keep supporting the beneficiaries.


I have sold quite a bit of land that was in a Trust. One of the biggest reasons for Trusts is to keep family memebers from fighting over the land and/or making sure assets are distributed equally


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: Creekrunner] #7972307 09/13/20 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Originally Posted by tlk
Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


Yeah, there's ways around that.

I don't want you to ever lose your lease, but, in my opinion, that's arrogant and stupid. 'Hope it's not the Nature Conservancy. 'Good way to screw your family. So many men get caught up in their perceived "legacy", what they've achieved, what they've been able to buy, etc., etc. None of us will be remembered a couple of generations down the line. Grow up.

Although not nearly that much acreage, my kids have strict instructions to sell it and split the money four ways. I've learned from experience, it's the only way to keep peace. And if there's a legal way to force them, I'm looking into it.


I think whatever someone does with their land is up to them. Just because you or I believe one thing should be done does not require someone else to have the same belief. I did not see the trust but know what this man told me and I believe him. No reason though to call someone arrogant and stupid because of what they decide to do with their own property - trust me he is anything but those two words

Last edited by tlk; 09/13/20 09:53 PM.

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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TWarren] #7972336 09/13/20 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by TWarren
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Originally Posted by tlk
Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


Yeah, there's ways around that.

I don't want you to ever lose your lease, but, in my opinion, that's arrogant and stupid. 'Hope it's not the Nature Conservancy. 'Good way to screw your family. So many men get caught up in their perceived "legacy", what they've achieved, what they've been able to buy, etc., etc. None of us will be remembered a couple of generations down the line. Grow up.

Although not nearly that much acreage, my kids have strict instructions to sell it and split the money four ways. I've learned from experience, it's the only way to keep peace. And if there's a legal way to force them, I'm looking into it.

Perhaps those owners care more about the natural legacy of their land than to see it subdivided and developed?


'Sorry I drew this off topic from the OP's inquiry. I don't think anyone likes seeing a place split up (except maybe the developer), but I would say a vast majority on here have participated in "urban sprawl", I know I have. People seem to really like making babies, and they grow up and have to live somewhere.

'Didn't mean to be harsh, but I've met several men that achieved things, had a dream of a ranch/farm/country getaway, bought it, then expected their dream to become their kids' dream. I tried to raise my kids to have their own dreams.

And not all properties are sold to developers and split up.


...and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen. 1:28
Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: Creekrunner] #7972351 09/13/20 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Originally Posted by TWarren
Originally Posted by Creekrunner
Originally Posted by tlk
Our LO has 16K acres - he put it into a trust so that it cannot ever be sold - do not see that very often


Yeah, there's ways around that.

I don't want you to ever lose your lease, but, in my opinion, that's arrogant and stupid. 'Hope it's not the Nature Conservancy. 'Good way to screw your family. So many men get caught up in their perceived "legacy", what they've achieved, what they've been able to buy, etc., etc. None of us will be remembered a couple of generations down the line. Grow up.

Although not nearly that much acreage, my kids have strict instructions to sell it and split the money four ways. I've learned from experience, it's the only way to keep peace. And if there's a legal way to force them, I'm looking into it.

Perhaps those owners care more about the natural legacy of their land than to see it subdivided and developed?


'Sorry I drew this off topic from the OP's inquiry. I don't think anyone likes seeing a place split up (except maybe the developer), but I would say a vast majority on here have participated in "urban sprawl", I know I have. People seem to really like making babies, and they grow up and have to live somewhere.

'Didn't mean to be harsh, but I've met several men that achieved things, had a dream of a ranch/farm/country getaway, bought it, then expected their dream to become their kids' dream. I tried to raise my kids to have their own dreams.

And not all properties are sold to developers and split up.



I understand - this ranch has been in this family since the 1800's - his ancestors were one of the largest cattle people anywhere and it was 250,000 acres originally. Of course it has been split up over and over through the years. Our LO is very much about his family and their history - so if he tells me the property cannot be sold after he is gone I believe him and applaud him


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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: TakeMeLord] #7972371 09/13/20 10:31 PM
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From what i have read that it is impossible to will land to someone and have it in a trust that it can never be sold. If that is the case who owns the land? It must not be the ones it was willed to. If it is sold who is going to contest it? The former owner is dead.

Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: don k] #7972400 09/13/20 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by don k
From what i have read that it is impossible to will land to someone and have it in a trust that it can never be sold. If that is the case who owns the land? It must not be the ones it was willed to. If it is sold who is going to contest it? The former owner is dead.



If it’s in a Trust then the Trust owns the property.



In most cases and Scenarios if you have more than 1 kid and plan on leaving your landholdings to them it’s the wise thing to do, is put it in a Trust.


Many a family has been ripped apart by the family ranch. Seen it many, many times


For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: txtrophy85] #7972553 09/14/20 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by don k
From what i have read that it is impossible to will land to someone and have it in a trust that it can never be sold. If that is the case who owns the land? It must not be the ones it was willed to. If it is sold who is going to contest it? The former owner is dead.



If it’s in a Trust then the Trust owns the property.



In most cases and Scenarios if you have more than 1 kid and plan on leaving your landholdings to them it’s the wise thing to do, is put it in a Trust.


Many a family has been ripped apart by the family ranch. Seen it many, many times



yep in this case there are multiple children - their mother and father put it into a trust that allows the children to derive income off of whatever the property produces but they cannot sell it. I am not any attorney but I would think busting a trust is not an easy thing to do


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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: don k] #7972569 09/14/20 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by don k
From what i have read that it is impossible to will land to someone and have it in a trust that it can never be sold. If that is the case who owns the land? It must not be the ones it was willed to. If it is sold who is going to contest it? The former owner is dead.


Example: the church I have gone to for over 40 years was willed via a trust around 200 acres back in the late 1800s. The trust stated that the property could only be used to provide income for a church cemetary and its upkeep. Here our church is 150 plus years later and we cannot sell or use this property (which is appraised at over a few million dollars) for anything other than some income and the income must go to upkeep on the cemetary. Our church cannot breach the intent of the trust - we have talked to many lawyers and no luck


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Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: tlk] #7972825 09/14/20 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by tlk
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Originally Posted by don k
From what i have read that it is impossible to will land to someone and have it in a trust that it can never be sold. If that is the case who owns the land? It must not be the ones it was willed to. If it is sold who is going to contest it? The former owner is dead.



If it’s in a Trust then the Trust owns the property.



In most cases and Scenarios if you have more than 1 kid and plan on leaving your landholdings to them it’s the wise thing to do, is put it in a Trust.


Many a family has been ripped apart by the family ranch. Seen it many, many times



yep in this case there are multiple children - their mother and father put it into a trust that allows the children to derive income off of whatever the property produces but they cannot sell it. I am not any attorney but I would think busting a trust is not an easy thing to do




it depends on how the trust was set up and what instructions they were given. In most scenarios, Trusts are set up to provide income for the Beneficiaries. If, for example say the property stops producing income via leases or mineral royalty and the beneficiaries are suffering financially, then the Trust would order the sale of the property and the proceeds to be distributed among the beneficiaries. its not "Busting up the Trust", but simply the management of an asset by a disinterested third party to ensure everything is fair and the Beneficiaries are taken care of financially.

Trusts can be set up many different ways, but the likelihood of it being set up to where the land could never be sold under any circumstances is pretty slim. A lot of times you have one faction that uses and enjoys the land, and another faction who just wants the cash and has no ties to the property, Trusts allow for the non-participating party to derive some income while the people using the property to still enjoy the land without having to buy out the other party.




For it is not the quarry that we truly seek, but the adventure.
Re: Curious: 2020 Leases: impact by economy & pandemic? [Re: txtrophy85] #7972860 09/14/20 02:26 AM
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That may be the case. But if the party who just wants income gets it the income then the property is not sold. Therefore it remains in the family correct? Therefore a trust could retain a property so it cannot be sold?

Last edited by tlk; 09/14/20 02:29 AM.

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