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Main beams #7935287 08/14/20 03:37 PM
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hook_n_line Online Content OP
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Here is a strange one. After seeing a few comments on the "would this deer be legal to shoot ?" thread would this deer have main beams?

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Re: Main beams [Re: hook_n_line] #7935389 08/14/20 04:53 PM
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Every deer has main beams as does the deer you are showing. The question would be how do you measure the inside width of the main beams on a deer like that.

For that answer I would refer you to someone who know a lot more than I do.

Re: Main beams [Re: Texas buckeye] #7935682 08/14/20 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Every deer has main beams as does the deer you are showing. The question would be how do you measure the inside width of the main beams on a deer like that.

For that answer I would refer you to someone who know a lot more than I do.

Not every deer has mainbeams. I have seen pics of huge, cactus looking NT bucks that could not be scored due to lack of a definable mainbeam as per B&C.


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Re: Main beams [Re: stxranchman] #7935998 08/14/20 10:52 PM
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I’ll split the difference on the two responses. I would of said ALMOST all bucks have main beams but it can be very hard to tell specifically where they are. Since STx said what he said then I would say he is likely 100% correct.


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Re: Main beams [Re: hook_n_line] #7936256 08/15/20 02:13 AM
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Yeah, I should have said “most”....but that’s also Why I waffled and said where to score them From was above my pay grade...

Even in STX’s example, there’s a main beam in there somewhere. The scoring is the question.

Re: Main beams [Re: Texas buckeye] #7936283 08/15/20 02:43 AM
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One of the guys wives killed this just last year. His “main beam” I would call what is wrapped around behind his head. Try figuring spread on that guy.
For what it’s worth he was killed cause he wouldn’t of been real good even if the odd side matched the other—an he was old.

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Re: Main beams [Re: Texas buckeye] #7936289 08/15/20 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Yeah, I should have said “most”....but that’s also Why I waffled and said where to score them From was above my pay grade...

Even in STX’s example, there’s a main beam in there somewhere. The scoring is the question.

There are examples on the internet that said they did not have definite mainbeams...hence they were not scored due to that ruling. IIRC off of the top of my head there was one buck was killed in Louisiana and one in one of the Carolina's. The ones I have seen pics of had points going everywhere out of one base on each side. There was not even a hint of a mainbeam in those clusters of points. Even though someone may have put a score on them, by definition of a mainbeam they could not be officially scored. The B&C rule book has pretty well defined what can be scored. If a deer is scoreable then it will be officially scored according to their guidelines. None of NT unscoreable deer were very normal looking. Just like HF deer are unscoreable for the record book even though they are scored all the time, just not officially.


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Re: Main beams [Re: hook_n_line] #7936300 08/15/20 03:05 AM
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Here is one that had a mess on one side but it had a definitive mainbeam so he could be scored.
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Re: Main beams [Re: stxranchman] #7936302 08/15/20 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Yeah, I should have said “most”....but that’s also Why I waffled and said where to score them From was above my pay grade...

Even in STX’s example, there’s a main beam in there somewhere. The scoring is the question.

There are examples on the internet that said they did not have definite mainbeams...hence they were not scored due to that ruling. IIRC off of the top of my head there was one buck was killed in Louisiana and one in one of the Carolina's. The ones I have seen pics of had points going everywhere out of one base on each side. There was not even a hint of a mainbeam in those clusters of points. Even though someone may have put a score on them, by definition of a mainbeam they could not be officially scored. The B&C rule book has pretty well defined what can be scored. If a deer is scoreable then it will be officially scored according to their guidelines. None of NT unscoreable deer were very normal looking. Just like HF deer are unscoreable for the record book even though they are scored all the time, just not officially.


I don’t like those “cactus” bucks anyway. Often they score high but don’t really look “big.” I’m sure STx is right on the explanation they give for not officially scoring but wouldnt bother me if BC didn’t try real hard to figure em out. Nothing about the BC scoring system was designed to applaud those anomalies.


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Re: Main beams [Re: freerange] #7936486 08/15/20 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by stxranchman
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Yeah, I should have said “most”....but that’s also Why I waffled and said where to score them From was above my pay grade...

Even in STX’s example, there’s a main beam in there somewhere. The scoring is the question.

There are examples on the internet that said they did not have definite mainbeams...hence they were not scored due to that ruling. IIRC off of the top of my head there was one buck was killed in Louisiana and one in one of the Carolina's. The ones I have seen pics of had points going everywhere out of one base on each side. There was not even a hint of a mainbeam in those clusters of points. Even though someone may have put a score on them, by definition of a mainbeam they could not be officially scored. The B&C rule book has pretty well defined what can be scored. If a deer is scoreable then it will be officially scored according to their guidelines. None of NT unscoreable deer were very normal looking. Just like HF deer are unscoreable for the record book even though they are scored all the time, just not officially.


I don’t like those “cactus” bucks anyway. Often they score high but don’t really look “big.” I’m sure STx is right on the explanation they give for not officially scoring but wouldnt bother me if BC didn’t try real hard to figure em out. Nothing about the BC scoring system was designed to applaud those anomalies.

That scoring system is all about symmetry when scoring an deer. It penalizes anything that a deer grows that is not symmetrical or typical. Cactus bucks are not very appealing bucks to me either. They are unique but not normal. Just like those really highest scoring NT in the book, they are huge but not very pretty looking deer to me, but there are hunters that really like them. That is what makes hunting deer what it is, every deer is different than the next one they see.
Those unscoreable bucks can be scored by the person who killed it and just state that is is not "official", it is done all the time. Just like a buck that has a 3rd mainbeam out of his skull. I was told by an official B&C scorer that it can not be officially scored since there is no place on the score sheet for a 3rd mainbeam. It is a beam and not a NT point. I think it is because beams start from a pedicle and NT points start off the beam or point. My mule deer I killed this past season is another one that has to be seen and scored by an official scorer. I called someone to get a ruling on scoring that buck for my personal reference and ranch rules. I was told that when a buck is missing a G3 on one side(had a 5pt looking WT right side) and then has a tripod cluster G2, G3 and G4 on the other side(left side) you can do things not normal for scoring on a mule deer. Missing that G3 on the right side allows the scorer to then choose which tine on the opposite side(out of 3) that then can be the G2. Then you pick the shortest tine of the other 2 for the G3....this is done for the lowest deduction on final net score. The 3rd point on that cluster then becomes a NT add on. To score the side that was missing a G3, I was told to take the closest point to the G2 as the G4. The last point off the mainbeam is now NT add on. This all came about due to the lack of a G3 on one side and then a tripod cluster of 3 pts on the other. I still will take it to someone to get a correct scoring and explanation in person.


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Re: Main beams [Re: stxranchman] #7937359 08/16/20 12:20 AM
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Stx you really got me thinking. I would of ASSUMED that any extra “beam” would of counted as a NT point but im sure you are right if you are saying that it just cant be counted. As good as the BC system is there are just too many variables to touch all bases. And, yes, I agree the neatest thing about deer hunting is how every deer is different. Especially WT, and not as much MD and surely not so much on Pronghorn and lots of other species. And Quail dang sure all look alike.
Your Mule Deer scoring comments really got me thinking. When TBGA first started in 1990 they taught me to officially score. I hardly ever scored any MD and never really researched it much in future years. My understanding at that time was that they were ALL scored as 5x5s in the normal configuration for MD. Anything else was NT. I still think that’s true but your comments made me realize there is more discretion allowed than I thought. Question, wouldn’t the discretion allowed on your left side cluster be the same regardless of the opposite side(I would of assumed that). On his right side, I would not of known which tine to use as g4 but I know as a rule of thumb they try to give a buck all they can when there is discretion.
As always, I love all your detailed comments. Im sure there are some out there that don’t care one bit about scoring, and that’s fine, but for some of us it just adds a whole other dimension to the experience. Kind of like quail hunters like dog work or golfers like the scenery or exercise.
Ive got a MD that’s got some of same stuff involved in scoring and I will try to post him if I get a minute.


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Re: Main beams [Re: freerange] #7937625 08/16/20 03:07 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Stx you really got me thinking. I would of ASSUMED that any extra “beam” would of counted as a NT point but im sure you are right if you are saying that it just cant be counted. As good as the BC system is there are just too many variables to touch all bases. And, yes, I agree the neatest thing about deer hunting is how every deer is different. Especially WT, and not as much MD and surely not so much on Pronghorn and lots of other species. And Quail dang sure all look alike.
Your Mule Deer scoring comments really got me thinking. When TBGA first started in 1990 they taught me to officially score. I hardly ever scored any MD and never really researched it much in future years. My understanding at that time was that they were ALL scored as 5x5s in the normal configuration for MD. Anything else was NT. I still think that’s true but your comments made me realize there is more discretion allowed than I thought. Question, wouldn’t the discretion allowed on your left side cluster be the same regardless of the opposite side(I would of assumed that). On his right side, I would not of known which tine to use as g4 but I know as a rule of thumb they try to give a buck all they can when there is discretion.
As always, I love all your detailed comments. Im sure there are some out there that don’t care one bit about scoring, and that’s fine, but for some of us it just adds a whole other dimension to the experience. Kind of like quail hunters like dog work or golfers like the scenery or exercise.
Ive got a MD that’s got some of same stuff involved in scoring and I will try to post him if I get a minute.

The "extra beam" not scoring would be solely if it originated from the skull as a 3rd beam. Score sheet does not have a place to enter a 3rd beam. It only has right and left side scoring.
I was trained and certified as a TBGA scored probably 12-13 yrs ago. There will always be something that needs clarification when you get into the non-typical deer that are killed. That is why they use a panel to do the final score on some of those I think. Just to many variables to be covered in a book. Somethings they come across over the years were not thought of when they wrote the scoring guidelines. Even though I have been thru the scoring class there are things I come across that I still have to read in the manual or call someone to ask about it.
On my mule deer I called one of the guys who does the rescore for the TBGA top 5 or so of the final entries in each species catergory. I sent him a couple of pics via text and then called him to let him explain exactly how I should score it. He said the only way the tripod is scored at the scorers discretion is when there is a missing G3 on the opposite side and there is a tripod on the other side. The G2 will almost always be the back tine unless it is under this example. That missing G3 and the 5 pt WT side on the right on the buck is what made the G4 move to the closer tine to the G2. That made the outer tine in the front a NT on that right side. It gained 1.5" of mass alone with that change. My initial score on the buck on his right beam I used the front point as the G4 and the point in-between as the NT. On the left tripod side I used the back tine of the tripod as the G2 and then the middle tine of the tripod as the G3. Front tine in the tripod as the NT. I was using the symmetry of a normal 4x4 or 5x5 mule deer as the basis for my score.
I had another one I ran across once. I scored the buck as a typical 6x6 that had a few NT points also. When I got someone to look at him and rescore it, he even had to stop and question his scoring. The buck had what I called matching short G2s....the guy rescoring him said those are not coming off the top of the beam like the 3's, 4's and 5's did. They came more off the back of the beam at an angle more but they matched perfectly in location and angle. He finally decided that they were closer to the top of the beam than the middle of them and called them both typical. I never even thought they were NT till he stopped and posed the question to me to see what I thought. After he explained why he questioned it I understood it much better.
So many places that lease or do hunts use a score basis for their records. Many never score a deer. Those that do will use those score sheets to gauge over time how they are progressing. We have had to do it on our mule deer lease since we started, it is only for the biologist records though. It is one thing the LO wanted done. Some guys don't care to get a score and others want to know.


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Re: Main beams [Re: stxranchman] #7937670 08/16/20 04:04 AM
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Your explanation of how you initially scored your MD is exactly how I would of scored it but evidently there’s more than one way to skin a cat. My Texas MD I posted here I would of used a similar thought process. He has the extra fork on right so “normal” scoring is out. I would of assumed the last tine was the g4 cause it just “looked” like it should be. Then I called the extra tine an it’s fork both NT. I never paid attention to the score sheet till just now but it looks like he did like your guy did. He used the longer one as g4 then called the kicker and the end point as NT. You will recognize the book the sheet came from. Once again, this is all more than some care to know but I enjoy it.
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Op-I apologize if all this is off topic.

Last edited by freerange; 08/16/20 04:08 AM.

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Re: Main beams [Re: hook_n_line] #7941893 08/19/20 01:45 PM
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I've been playing where there is no internet or phone signal. grin If this deer has a main beam where would the next points be. They grew out like flower petals. Would you deem him unscoreable?

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/whit...e-bucks-that-were-rejected-by-bc-and-py/


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Re: Main beams [Re: hook_n_line] #7941933 08/19/20 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by hook_n_line
I've been playing where there is no internet or phone signal. grin If this deer has a main beam where would the next points be. They grew out like flower petals. Would you deem him unscoreable?!!!

https://www.wideopenspaces.com/whit...e-bucks-that-were-rejected-by-bc-and-py/

Im confused what youre asking. I looked at the link and there are 4 bucks not one and BC says none can be scored by their system. Maybe you were trying to post a pic?? The bucks in the article were similar to the cactus type bucks that Stx was referring to. Congratulations, btw, on being somewhere without service!!!!!
OH, i just realized you are the OP and likely talking about the original pic. It would likely take a panel of BC scorers to answer your question or at least STx or someone besides me. When we score bucks on our lease it is for in house record keeping purposes to monitor our progress over time(plus its fun.) We would just take an educated guess at the beam and score best we could. We would likely be wrong but it would be close enough to give us a feel for how much horn he grew which is our main goal.


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Re: Main beams [Re: freerange] #7945530 08/22/20 01:19 AM
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