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Feb 12th, 2024
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 Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7894924
07/09/20 12:30 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923
Mike W
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Just to be clear I am not blaming anyone, including conspiracy theorists. From the get go I argued the worst case scenario was what the people in charge had to prepare for, since we knew nothing about what was coming. When data came in and we saw the info, I was all about opening things up and seeing what happened. But from the beginning the whole situation was lose lose. No winners anywhere. Including the citizens. Certainly not blaming the conspiracy theorists for anything, just shocked how they sprouted so quickly and people were willing to pile on. Nothing wrong with it, just the way it is. People are willing to pile on because these "experts" ignore the real experts in the field, talk out of both sides of their head and did absolutely nothing with the time and money they were given except make themselves wealthy people, and then try and blame the guy who was there for 3 years instead of owning the mess they spent 40 years making.
This cannot be fixed at the voting booth.. Wake Up You Morons!
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Mike W]
#7894935
07/09/20 12:43 AM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,795
dogcatcher
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I find it hard to believe that when you shut down the hospital system more people die from cardiac arrest. /sarcasm.
From the above link "We know the virus causes systemic inflammation and an enhanced immune -- 'cytokine' -- response," Mintz said. "This can lead to inflammation of the heart, called myocarditis, or it can produce micro-thrombi (micro-clots) in the arteries of the heart. That leads to cardiac damage and arrhythmias, leading to cardiac arrest and death," he explained.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2018/09/full-3152-162968-charge_air_assault.jpg)
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7894943
07/09/20 12:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923
Mike W
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Posts: 21,923 |
Same article:
Stress placed on the heart by COVID-19, a hesitancy by people to call 911, and even reluctance on the part of bystanders to perform CPR may be boosting rates of out-of-hospital cardiac arrest, a new report finds. The data comes from four provinces in northern Italy, a region that was hit very hard and very early by the coronavirus pandemic. The researchers said that between Feb. 21 and March 31, 2020, there was a 58% jump in the number of cardiac arrests that occurred before victims could get to the hospital, compared to the same time frame last year. Why the spike? People may be waiting longer to reach out to emergency medical services (EMS) for help, the Italian team believes. Compared to 2019 rates, "the incidence of out-of-hospital cardiac arrest at home was 7.3 percentage points higher," the researchers noted, "and the incidence of unwitnessed cardiac arrest was 11.3 percentage points higher." It also took an average 3 minutes longer for EMS crews to arrive on the scene of a cardiac arrest in 2020 versus 2019, and "the proportion of patients who received cardiopulmonary resuscitation [CPR] from bystanders was 15.6 percentage points lower," Baldi's group reported.
This cannot be fixed at the voting booth.. Wake Up You Morons!
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: bill oxner]
#7894994
07/09/20 01:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,425
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,425 |
amazing so many "dr" have the time to post here all day long.....  Envy and adoration?  Bill, I think you nailed it.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Guy]
#7894997
07/09/20 01:44 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,425
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,425 |
amazing so many "dr" have the time to post here all day long..... You are clueless. Thank you docs for posting. I'm reading it all.  Guy, I agree. I like hearing from any of the docs or medical professionals. Nobodies perfect but those guys got some insight i dont have.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Mike W]
#7895004
07/09/20 01:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 8,425
freerange
THF Trophy Hunter
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Posts: 8,425 |
Problem is hindsight is nearly always 20/20, and who ever was in charge of the decision making was doomed to failure, regardless of the outcome. I said that from the get go, its a lose lose for anyone in charge. What I didn't expect was so many conspiracy theorists to come out about this. The so called experts set themselves up for failure. Billions of dollars, decades to prepare and what happened? They stepped on their dick because they were unprepared and incompetent. Hard to blame the so called conspiracy theorist for the so called experts inability to do anything positive at all. They have double and tripled talked themselves into this hole where their credibility is shot to crap and everyone of them should be shown the door for their poorly calculated missteps and their massive waste of billions of dollars and decades of precious time. Hell, the H1N1 panic depleted the PPE supply, and that was 2009, who the hell was running things up there?? Who was supposed to resupply? Trump? In 2010? The same azzhats who are running things now. Looks like a frickin Benny Hill episode. Mike W, so many of your posts just exude anger or disappointment or sadness the same way that snot might exude from a mask. I wish that somehow I could offer my outlook of life to you. I know the world(US, Texas) is not perfect(lots of problems) but I am so blessed to live where I live and I just refuse to let so many of yall drag me down. I could use a little Louis Armstrong(What a Wonderful World) from Bill to get my smile back. Or I could just look at my sig line.
Last edited by freerange; 07/09/20 01:56 AM.
At some point in life its time to quit chasing the pot of gold and just enjoy the rainbow. FR
Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7895022
07/09/20 02:13 AM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,075
aerangis
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Something I was told by the doc that treated me is O blood types typically have minimal symptoms and A blood types get sick as crap, most often requiring ventilation. I personally know of two people with A that got it, both subesquently died. I have O pos and my symptoms were minor though I'd assume it was due to taking a regimen of HCQ, D3 and Zinc when the symptoms first arose.
I'm a senior citizen with several risk factors that increase the risk of death. I'm not willing to take a chance of getting it again. More so since only 20% of those infected appear to get beneficial antibodies after exposure. Regardless of statistics, imho the risk of a worse outcome from reinfection is reason enough to warrant wearing a mask.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: aerangis]
#7895059
07/09/20 02:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,123
TXHOGSLAYER
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Something I was told by the doc that treated me is O blood types typically have minimal symptoms and A blood types get sick as crap, most often requiring ventilation. I personally know of two people with A that got it, both subesquently died. I have O pos and my symptoms were minor though I'd assume it was due to taking a regimen of HCQ, D3 and Zinc when the symptoms first arose.
I'm a senior citizen with several risk factors that increase the risk of death. I'm not willing to take a chance of getting it again. More so since only 20% of those infected appear to get beneficial antibodies after exposure. Regardless of statistics, imho the risk of a worse outcome from reinfection is reason enough to warrant wearing a mask. Good info, thanks for sharing. Sorry for your friends.
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: freerange]
#7895061
07/09/20 02:57 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 21,617
pegasaurus
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Posts: 21,617 |
amazing so many "dr" have the time to post here all day long..... You are clueless. Thank you docs for posting. I'm reading it all. Guy, I agree. I like hearing from any of the docs or medical professionals. Nobodies perfect but those guys got some insight i dont have. With this starting out with this intended to be a serious discussion thread, I would have expected that TB would have some data to support his post. Without it, it is just another unsubstantiated opinion.
Funny thing about getting older:
Your eyesight starts getting weaker but your ability to
see through people's BS gets much better.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7895064
07/09/20 03:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,459
majekman
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I too am a FOP (aka senior citizen) with several high high risk health issues. I continue to live my life as I please and see fit. I’ve never lived in fear of anything and not about to start now. If I get the kung flu and kick out. So be it. Must be my time.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: pegasaurus]
#7895065
07/09/20 03:04 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,123
TXHOGSLAYER
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amazing so many "dr" have the time to post here all day long..... You are clueless. Thank you docs for posting. I'm reading it all. Guy, I agree. I like hearing from any of the docs or medical professionals. Nobodies perfect but those guys got some insight i dont have. With this starting out with this intended to be a serious discussion thread, I would have expected that TB would have some data to support his post. Without it, it is just another unsubstantiated opinion. Most "Medical" opinions are. especially from nurse practitioners....
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: aerangis]
#7895100
07/09/20 04:07 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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Something I was told by the doc that treated me is O blood types typically have minimal symptoms and A blood types get sick as crap, most often requiring ventilation. I have read the same thing. It's a very unusual virus, and I am fairly confident genetic makeup has something to do with symptoms and outcomes, outside of health risk factors. For example, my BIL got COVID, but his wife and kids did not and they were all tested. Sleep in the same bed, eat at the same table, etc. I was surprised..... I know of one doc who acquired it....none of his patients have tested positive and none of his staff either, and of course they all work in close proximity to each other. But they also wear PPE vast majority of the day. Also, there have been as many as 16 mutations of the virus that have been documented...earlier strains seem to be more infective which would make sense considering the severity of the outbreaks in the first locations (Italy, NYC, China).
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: freerange]
#7895177
07/09/20 12:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 21,923
Mike W
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Posts: 21,923 |
Mike W, so many of your posts just exude anger or disappointment or sadness the same way that snot might exude from a mask. I wish that somehow I could offer my outlook of life to you. I know the world(US, Texas) is not perfect(lots of problems) but I am so blessed to live where I live and I just refuse to let so many of yall drag me down. I could use a little Louis Armstrong(What a Wonderful World) from Bill to get my smile back. Or I could just look at my sig line.
Anger, yes. Angry that after billions in handouts and decades to prepare, these guys couldn't even restock the PPE shelves, much less come up with any kind of gameplan other than trying to destroy the country financially. Some folks see unicorns & rainbows while going along to get along.. some call bs, bs.
This cannot be fixed at the voting booth.. Wake Up You Morons!
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7895189
07/09/20 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,756
Paluxy
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7895301
07/09/20 02:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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Dogcatcher, This could also be viewed as collateral damage due our widespread rationing of healthcare, but that doesn't like to be discussed or quantified. It is common knowledge that you can't 'stockpile' a service, which is what a majority of healthcare is. It is also common knowledge that many of our chronic diseases in this country progress without medical care. We essentially shut down medical care which causes increased severity of the disease. These patients were neglected when hospitals were empty, now we are seeing this back log of patients add to the system at the very time we need capacity the most. It would have been much smarter to increase our healthcare output at the beginning of the crisis rather than to drastically slow it down. I wonder how many patients who are in the hospitals now could have been safely treating in March/April and how many extra beds are being used due to this lack of foresight. https://www.texastribune.org/2020/07/08/houston-coronavirus-deaths-number/ An increase in people dying at home suggests coronavirus deaths in Houston may be higher than reported
In Houston, one of the nation's fastest-growing coronavirus hot spots, more residents are dying before they can make it to a hospital. Medical examiner data shows that an increasing number of these deaths are the result of COVID-19.
This article is co-published with ProPublica, a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up for ProPublica’s Big Story newsletter to receive stories like this one in your inbox as soon as they are published.
HOUSTON —
The rise in at-home deaths may also reflect people who are afraid to go to the hospital because of COVID-19, and who die of heart attacks, strokes, diabetes and other conditions not tied to the coronavirus, Faust said.
More broadly, Houston emergency responders have also seen an increase in deaths during cardiac arrest calls.
Houston fire officials can’t say for certain what’s driving the increases, but Senior Capt. Isabel Sky-Eagle said it seems to be tied to the coronavirus crisis. Some of those found dead upon arrival had serious underlying health problems and didn’t realize they were also sick with COVID-19, Sky-Eagle said. Others had simply delayed medical care for too long, she said, possibly because they’d seen news reports about overburdened hospitals.
“Normally these patients would have called us earlier on, and now they are waiting too long because maybe they don’t want to be transported to a hospital,” Sky-Eagle said. “Now we’re catching them when they’re already in cardiac arrest, and it’s too late.”
“And then you put the stress of the COVID situation on top of that, where we’re left wondering, ‘Is this person dying because of COVID?’ It adds another layer of fear to the job that, day after day, starts to add up,” Sky-Eagle said, referring to the fear of contracting the virus or passing it to others.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7895349
07/09/20 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 65,517
SnakeWrangler
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I have an uncle who will probably die soon because of delays in testing and treatment...in Scott &White now and figure he will leave there feet first.
Amazing how fast things went from two week shutdown to flatten the curve to you will be fined/jailed for not wearing a mask. And the death rate continues to fall, the length of hospital stays are significantly shorter, and people are still demanding we shut everything back down...
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored] Actually, BBC is pretty damn good "You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7895361
07/09/20 03:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,428
TLew
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That's sad. Everything does not need to be shut down or even close. If folks would just use the thing between their ears we could get through this without any more detriment than has already been caused. It can't be that complicated other than the fact people are being selfish.
Hospitals:
- Designate some Covid and some non Covid. This keeps elective and necessary unrelated procedures going
- Downside, hospitals are greedy and want the funding
PPE:
- Wash your hands, wear a mask, and keep a distance. All three simple things that still allow you to pick your nose in private
- Downside, people think common sense is an infringement on rights
High Risk:
- Stay inside, wear a mask when visiting loved ones, and don't do stupid things
- Downside, they don't see it that way (personal experience from a bunch of them in and around my family)
It can't be that freaking complex
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: majekman]
#7895372
07/09/20 03:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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I too am a FOP (aka senior citizen) with several high high risk health issues. I continue to live my life as I please and see fit. I’ve never lived in fear of anything and not about to start now. If I get the kung flu and kick out. So be it. Must be my time. X2
Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill ![[Linked Image]](https://texashuntingforum.com/forum/pics/usergals/2017/07/full-3669-105539-full_16668_105507_image.jpg)
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: majekman]
#7895445
07/09/20 03:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,075
aerangis
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I too am a FOP (aka senior citizen) with several high high risk health issues. I continue to live my life as I please and see fit. I’ve never lived in fear of anything and not about to start now. If I get the kung flu and kick out. So be it. Must be my time. Majek, you're a heck of a lot ballsier than I am in old age. I've endured a number of life threatening issues and took it with a grain of salt when I was a young man. I had the mindset that if I wasnt sick to my stomach with fear, hands shaking, I wasnt having fun (which is why I went in the service). Now that I'm able to retire and have the resources to enjoy it and do the things I never had the time or means to do before, I want to make the most of it. Aside from my own health concerns, wearing a mask shows a willingness to put others above ones self. If the mask makes people more comfortable I'm happy to wear it. Just as I'm willing to share knowledge or experiences. If it helps one person its time well spent. As far as shutting everything down, my doc friends explain it as a means to minimize the impact on a limited resource; healthcare services. Our country lacks the infrastructure to treat a multitude of people, particularly those that lack insurance or the funds to pay for it. And most counties lack a county hospital district to provide healthcare for the indigent. Its that simple.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Texas buckeye]
#7895480
07/09/20 04:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271
Palehorse
THF Trophy Hunter
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,271 |
Last edited by Palehorse; 07/09/20 04:24 PM.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: Palehorse]
#7895595
07/09/20 05:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949
don k
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Posts: 14,949 |
I did a study myself and it showed that wearing a mask does squat except for making the mask crowd happy.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: don k]
#7895616
07/09/20 06:05 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 4,075
aerangis
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I did a study myself and it showed that wearing a mask does squat except for making the mask crowd happy. If your study isnt published it doesnt count 
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: aerangis]
#7895631
07/09/20 06:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 14,949
don k
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I did a study myself and it showed that wearing a mask does squat except for making the mask crowd happy. If your study isnt published it doesnt count I published it here so it counts. About as good a study as most of the studies that change every 15 minutes.
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: don k]
#7895636
07/09/20 06:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,459
majekman
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I did a study myself and it showed that wearing a mask does squat except for making the mask crowd happy. Credentials please.....
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Re: Why we wear masks (and wash our hands)
[Re: majekman]
#7895660
07/09/20 06:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,067
mattyg06
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I did a study myself and it showed that wearing a mask does squat except for making the mask crowd happy. Credentials please..... Before reading the following keep in mind just because I question something, doesn't necessarily mean I would stake my life on it.... It's odd to me how the opposing view on the utility of masks is being censored. I, by nature, am a skeptic, generally about all things. I prefer to take a contraian view on most subjects to get a better understanding of the topic in general. In order to be for something, you really need to be more educated about the 'against', in order to double check our innate biases. What is a bit disturbing to me, in regards to Corona, is how a lot of the scientific debate has been stifled by various entities. Even within several doctors groups I am a member of, there is very little back and forth quoting actual articles. Instead there is a lot of sentiment. This is an interesting opposing view on the the evidence of mask wearing from someone that has been known to be a contraian and questions the established 'wisdom'. The concern is you can hardly find the article any longer. https://www.oralhealthgroup.com/features/face-masks-dont-work-revealing-review/Update: Why Face Masks Don’t Work: A Revealing Review
October 18, 2016
by Oral Health
If you are looking for “Why Face Masks Don’t Work: A Revealing Review” by John Hardie, BDS, MSc, PhD, FRCDC, it has been removed. The content was published in 2016 and is no longer relevant in our current climate.
Please note that the content from Oral Health Group is primarily intended to educate and inform dental professionals.
If you are looking to further educate yourself on the topic of PPE in the dental industry, we invite you to read the articles below:
Understanding Personal Protective Equipment
Federal Government Creates Web Hub For Organizations Buying and Selling PPE The following link is to a full text of the article with references: https://eumeswill.wordpress.com/2020/07/09/why-face-masks-dont-work-a-revealing-review/
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