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Please educate me on scopes. #7867794 06/11/20 09:45 PM
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Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7867810 06/11/20 09:57 PM
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Short answer is that you don't need a BDC.
No, BDC are calculated holds for specific ammo, grain weight, velocity, etc..

If needed, I can put together a much better and more thought out response, however there are others here who will contribute.

Last edited by Skylar Mac; 06/11/20 09:58 PM.

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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7867813 06/11/20 09:58 PM
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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7867975 06/12/20 12:38 AM
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Using a reticle with MOA or MIL markings allows you to choose between holding over in the reticle or dialing, or a combination of both. If I am shooting targets, I usually dial, because I have the time to. If I am hunting, I usually holdover, because who knows when and where that animal may present a shot. BDC reticles (not the same as MIL or MOA reticles) are matched to a very specific set of variables. Change one variable and the reticle is wrong.

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7868021 06/12/20 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lightnin
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.


Proper reticle, turreted scopes you can do one or the other. Dial or hold.
(BDC is a Nikon term and it is more or less "almost" correct) Mil or MOA can be used to the extent of being exactly correct.

You do not always have the time to dial, so learn to hold.

For the new shooter, holding is not as precise and must be practiced to become precise.

Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: FiremanJG] #7868034 06/12/20 01:54 AM
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Okay you all confirmed what I thought. If time allows and it is a long distance adjust the turret. If on the other hand it is fast or realitively close just learn to hold over using the reticle. Thank you.

So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6?

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: FiremanJG] #7868261 06/12/20 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG


Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.


That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: RHutch] #7868289 06/12/20 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by RHutch
Originally Posted by FiremanJG


Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.


That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.


yep

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Ramhorn] #7868300 06/12/20 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ramhorn
Originally Posted by RHutch
Originally Posted by FiremanJG


Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.


That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.


yep


Yall know lots of hunting shows put hunters in bad light. And there's tons of old hunters that love to make fun of turret dialers. For the time I took the other stance, I still get criticized for it. I'm not ignorant and there was no ego involved.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7868323 06/12/20 01:36 PM
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I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.

Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: 603Country] #7868365 06/12/20 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.

Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.


+1 Great post. I've been hunting a little longer than you, but have had the same experiences. Know how your gun shoots (ammo, scope, etc) and if you aren't confident, don't take the shot. Having said that, you can still miss every now and then......


God bless John Wayne!
Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: 603Country] #7868452 06/12/20 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
I hunted with holdover for at least 40 years. I started out hunting with a 35 Remington, so holdover was a necessity, and I got pretty good at it. Later, and mostly due to this forum, I put an FFP turreted scope on my main hunting rifle. I dialed for a few long shots, but found that many times I had very little time for dialing, so back to holdover. Now I have a Leupold 3-15 CDS scope on the rifle. I’ve dialed and I have used holdover, depending on whether the deer or pig was standing or moving. My CDS dial starts at a 100 yard zero, but I have decided to just crank it to the 200 yard zero and either hold or dial from there. And I will back Fireman on his statement that a 300 yard holdover is no big deal. With a bullet at 3000 FPS and a 200 yard zero, the 300 yard drop will be about 7 inches. That might be a tough holdover for ground squirrels, but easy for deer. If the deer is running, however, I just don’t shoot. I did get 2 large hogs a month ago at about 225 yards, and they were at a quick trot, though since the scope was set for 200, there wasn’t much holdover involved.

Just know your ballistics. That 3000 FPS bullet with a 200 yard zero drops to what I call the 7-20-40 rule. Down 7 at 300, down 20 at 400, and down 40 at 500. I can, and have done a 20” holdover on deer, but won’t even try further than that.


Even the old .308 plodding along at 2700 fps or less isn't but 1.0 Mil hold at 300 yards, from a 100 yard zero.

Dial if you have time, hold if you don't have the time.

Mil/Mil, or MOA/MOA the numbers are the same for hold versus dial. A person just needs to learn their ammo, and learn how to use the reticle to do it. The farther out a critter is, the farther the hold gets from zero. But it is more likely the animal doesn't even know the hunter is there, so not spooked and not in a hurry. You've probably got time to dial if you want to.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7868506 06/12/20 04:42 PM
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All agreed upon. It occurs to me that back when I was hunting in South Texas and looking down long senderos, I probably would have dialed a bunch, if I had today’s optics. Mostly standing deer at distance, but I didn’t have a RF anyway. And back in NE Louisiana I had long shots and short shots, which is about the same here, where I live and hunt.

Truth be told, I really haven’t dialed for deer very often, since all shots are less than 300. I have dialed for pigs out to 500. It’s good to have the options.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: FiremanJG] #7868683 06/12/20 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by Ramhorn
Originally Posted by RHutch
Originally Posted by FiremanJG


Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.


That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.


yep


Yall know lots of hunting shows put hunters in bad light. And there's tons of old hunters that love to make fun of turret dialers. For the time I took the other stance, I still get criticized for it. I'm not ignorant and there was no ego involved.



Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?

I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7868699 06/12/20 08:28 PM
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Scott

Anyone with any respect for another hunter ain't gonna call you a coward. Egotistical Bow hunters are derogatory like that to rifle hunters, some even to crossbow hunters.

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: scottfromdallas] #7868916 06/13/20 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?

I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.



If what I said get people to practice more, great!

Want to dial for 300, go for it. Again, it was more geared to some of the hunting shows that put us all in a bad light


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7869127 06/13/20 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lightnin
Okay so it seems the hot thing on all these long range shooting shows is the turrets that are exposed. You range the animal at 300 yards. They then crank the elevation turret to the correct number and kill the animal. I understand that. My question is this, If I changed the turret to adjust for the yardage why do I need BDC built into the crosshairs? Aren't they both doing basically the same function? I think I want a Meopta Optika6 unless you all can talk me into something better.


I haven't handled Optika6 but I have a Meopro 6x and 2 Zeiss Conquest 2.5-8 that were made by Meopta and they are great scopes. Glass is fantastic for the price point. They hold zero. Mine have regular capped turrets. Meopta has a good reputation for scopes but the Optika6 with target turrets are new so only time will tell.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7869130 06/13/20 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Lightnin
............So what are thoughts on the Meopta Optika6?


+1 popcorn


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: FiremanJG] #7869151 06/13/20 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by FiremanJG
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
Ok. So how is dialing an elevation turret 12 clicks for a 300 yard shot cowardice?

I'd rather hold but that's just me. If someone prefers clicking their turrets, I don't see the problem.



If what I said get people to practice more, great!

Want to dial for 300, go for it. Again, it was more geared to some of the hunting shows that put us all in a bad light


There aren't people that dislike hunters that are watching hunting shows. If they did , they would not have a clue how the hunter compensated for the range. Even if someone explained it to them and they understood the difference between holdover and dialing , do you really think it makes a difference in that person's opinion on hunting? Come on man.

Scott asked you why you call out someone that wants to dial in a 300 yard shot as cowardice.

Is a rifle hunter a coward for not using a compound bow? Is a crossbow hunter a coward for not using a compound bow? Your comment does a lot more harm to our sport than "dialing in " a 300 yard shot. Calling out an individual about how he chooses to legally hunt isn't constructive and yes , it is egotistical. It comes off as "my way is better and takes more skill, therefor I am superior to you"

Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7869227 06/13/20 04:14 PM
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Ramhorn,

You can't argue with a narcissist. They are always right in their own minds and never apologize or admit being wrong. You'll catch on. Welcome to the THF. cheers


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7869382 06/13/20 09:03 PM
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I feel the need to say that you should ease up on him. Even if we don’t always agree on all topics, there is no denying that he seriously knows his stuff.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: 603Country] #7869393 06/13/20 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 603Country
I feel the need to say that you should ease up on him. Even if we don’t always agree on all topics, there is no denying that he seriously knows his stuff.


Thank you sir.

I will always have my haters. And I've come to accept that.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: RHutch] #7869524 06/13/20 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by RHutch
Originally Posted by FiremanJG


Dialing on an animal at 300 yards is cowardice. It shows those that have not practiced holding. It aint that far, and it aint that much of a hold.


That generalization is pure ignorance and a bit of ego.


Damn, you shooting a 30-30?


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7869580 06/14/20 01:00 AM
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I don't hate anyone, especially you. I just don't want a new member to get frustrated. He'd have better luck arguing with the wall.


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Re: Please educate me on scopes. [Re: Lightnin] #7869623 06/14/20 01:26 AM
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Well, he is hard headed. :-)


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