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Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7857986 06/02/20 12:50 AM
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Concho have a drink on me, you’re wound up tighter’n a drum! Bullfrog, intelligence OF a frog? It was a joke.

Make me famous slick


quote=SnakeWrangler]How's the pup dong?[/quote]
Nothing to see here. . . . Look! A squirrel!
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Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Bullfrog] #7857990 06/02/20 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullfrog
Concho have a drink on me, you’re wound up tighter’n a drum! Bullfrog, intelligence OF a frog? It was a joke.

Make me famous slick


Ahhhh, I see what you did there now, my apology sir, I'll call you Joker from here on out. cheers


Ill make you famous!


Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7857991 06/02/20 12:53 AM
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cheers well, don’t mind if I do! Lol


quote=SnakeWrangler]How's the pup dong?[/quote]
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Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Bullfrog] #7857998 06/02/20 12:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullfrog
cheers well, don’t mind if I do! Lol



Your Sig is still disturbing.


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Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858012 06/02/20 01:22 AM
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He was on fentanyl and had a heart attack

One might say the Chinese killed him

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/01/george-floyd-cause-of-death-heart-attack-fentanyl/

Last edited by Gravytrain; 06/02/20 01:22 AM.
Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Gravytrain] #7858034 06/02/20 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Gravytrain
He was on fentanyl and had a heart attack

One might say the Chinese killed him

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/01/george-floyd-cause-of-death-heart-attack-fentanyl/

Patiently waiting for the "this changes nothing" crowd to show up and say......this changes nothing.....

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: S.A. hunter] #7858036 06/02/20 01:42 AM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
He was on fentanyl and had a heart attack

One might say the Chinese killed him

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/01/george-floyd-cause-of-death-heart-attack-fentanyl/

Patiently waiting for the "this changes nothing" crowd to show up and say......this changes nothing.....


TMZ? rofl


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Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: S.A. hunter] #7858054 06/02/20 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
He was on fentanyl and had a heart attack

One might say the Chinese killed him

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/01/george-floyd-cause-of-death-heart-attack-fentanyl/

Patiently waiting for the "this changes nothing" crowd to show up and say......this changes nothing.....


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...psy-findings-released-monday/5307185002/

Quote
Both the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's office and an autopsy commissioned by George Floyd's family have ruled that the death of Floyd – in an incident that has triggered nationwide unrest – was a homicide and the 46-year-old's heart stopped beating while police restrained him and compressed his neck.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858060 06/02/20 01:59 AM
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Fentanyl causes respiratory failure only in an overdose. It does nothing to cause a heart attack.

This is the proverbial, this changes nothing.

The ME even linked the heart attack to the neck and chest compression.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858070 06/02/20 02:11 AM
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Is the contention now that he was on so much fentanyl that it caused a heart attack or that he was resisting so forcibly that he needed to be restrained for nine minutes? Either he died because he had a heart attack due to the strongest opioid on the planet or he was resisting so badly that he needed to be pulled out of the car and subdued by three police officers. Right?

I’ve seen someone with an opioid addiction (and was on fentanyl). They live their lives in slow motion. They aren’t possessing the ability to resist to the level of restraint needed that was shown on the video.

But, really, the county ME ruled it a homicide.

This changes nothing. Again.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858075 06/02/20 02:16 AM
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I will say again, opioids did not cause a heart attack unless there is respiratory failure first. Opioids cause respiratory failure, and the lack of oxygen caused by the respiratory failure will eventually lead to a heart attack and death. But someone strung out to that point is laying down, turning blue, and even then they have quite some time before they die. This guy was not strung out on fentanyl. He didn’t die from fentanyl and the fentanyl didn’t contemporaneously cause his death. The heart attack killed him and that can be linked to someone kneeling on his neck and chest for 9 minutes.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858076 06/02/20 02:18 AM
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Copied from drug free.org.
Controlled substance
High risk for addiction and dependence. Can cause respiratory distress and death when taken in high doses or when combined with other substances, especially alcohol.


If you`re running down my country, man,
You`re walking on the fighting side of me. (Merle)
Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Texas buckeye] #7858079 06/02/20 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
Originally Posted by Gravytrain
He was on fentanyl and had a heart attack

One might say the Chinese killed him

https://www.tmz.com/2020/06/01/george-floyd-cause-of-death-heart-attack-fentanyl/

Patiently waiting for the "this changes nothing" crowd to show up and say......this changes nothing.....

Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Fentanyl causes respiratory failure only in an overdose. It does nothing to cause a heart attack.

This is the proverbial, this changes nothing.

The ME even linked the heart attack to the neck and chest compression.


We all knew he did his part to cause his own death, but he wasn’t alone in that. TB is a medical professional, if that matters in your “changes nothing” crowd.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: pdr55] #7858086 06/02/20 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by pdr55
Copied from drug free.org.
Controlled substance
High risk for addiction and dependence. Can cause respiratory distress and death when taken in high doses or when combined with other substances, especially alcohol.


Please listen to this when I say this, opioids cause respiratory failure when someone takes too much. Most of us have taken some form of opioids, Percocet, OxyContin, etc, for surgeries and when taken in moderation they do nothing other than give a little high from feeling good but they pose no risk to death. Only when they are taken in such high doses do opioids have a risk for death, and in that situation the user is laying down, unresponsive and not breathing or breathing very shallowly. This was NOT the situation Floyd was in. He was awake, talking. Trying to pass a bad check. Could the opioids explain him trying to pass a bad check? Sure. They do NOT explain away a heart attack because opioids don’t cause those.

Ask any paramedic why they carry Narcan in their units now, it’s to be an antidote for opioid overdose and get the person breathing again.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Texas buckeye] #7858107 06/02/20 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by pdr55
Copied from drug free.org.
Controlled substance
High risk for addiction and dependence. Can cause respiratory distress and death when taken in high doses or when combined with other substances, especially alcohol.


Please listen to this when I say this, opioids cause respiratory failure when someone takes too much. Most of us have taken some form of opioids, Percocet, OxyContin, etc, for surgeries and when taken in moderation they do nothing other than give a little high from feeling good but they pose no risk to death. Only when they are taken in such high doses do opioids have a risk for death, and in that situation the user is laying down, unresponsive and not breathing or breathing very shallowly. This was NOT the situation Floyd was in. He was awake, talking. Trying to pass a bad check. Could the opioids explain him trying to pass a bad check? Sure. They do NOT explain away a heart attack because opioids don’t cause those.

Ask any paramedic why they carry Narcan in their units now, it’s to be an antidote for opioid overdose and get the person breathing again.

Well apparently Doctor, you missed the part that said he also had methamphetamine in his system. Would that change anything? We still don’t know how much of these substances were in the blood.
All SOME people can see is a knee on a neck.


If you`re running down my country, man,
You`re walking on the fighting side of me. (Merle)
Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Texas buckeye] #7858115 06/02/20 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by pdr55
Copied from drug free.org.
Controlled substance
High risk for addiction and dependence. Can cause respiratory distress and death when taken in high doses or when combined with other substances, especially alcohol.


Please listen to this when I say this, opioids cause respiratory failure when someone takes too much. Most of us have taken some form of opioids, Percocet, OxyContin, etc, for surgeries and when taken in moderation they do nothing other than give a little high from feeling good but they pose no risk to death. Only when they are taken in such high doses do opioids have a risk for death, and in that situation the user is laying down, unresponsive and not breathing or breathing very shallowly. This was NOT the situation Floyd was in. He was awake, talking. Trying to pass a bad check. Could the opioids explain him trying to pass a bad check? Sure. They do NOT explain away a heart attack because opioids don’t cause those.

Ask any paramedic why they carry Narcan in their units now, it’s to be an antidote for opioid overdose and get the person breathing again.


First of all of this could be nothing more than a red herring.

Now think about this one M.E. said Cardiac Arrest, one said respiratory arrest. Floyd claimed he couldn't breath, clearly his airway wasn't obstructed, but could Fentanyl which is known for respiratory arrest have played a roll in that?

If a someone says fentanyl "changes nothing" in a patient that say he cant breath....... well that just doesn't seem right.

Last edited by S.A. hunter; 06/02/20 03:22 AM.
Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: bigbob_ftw] #7858118 06/02/20 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bigbob_ftw
Originally Posted by Bullfrog
cheers well, don’t mind if I do! Lol



Your Sig is still disturbing.


Kind of creeps me out.


Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Texas buckeye] #7858137 06/02/20 03:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
I will say again, opioids did not cause a heart attack unless there is respiratory failure first. Opioids cause respiratory failure, and the lack of oxygen caused by the respiratory failure will eventually lead to a heart attack and death. But someone strung out to that point is laying down, turning blue, and even then they have quite some time before they die. This guy was not strung out on fentanyl. He didn’t die from fentanyl and the fentanyl didn’t contemporaneously cause his death. The heart attack killed him and that can be linked to someone kneeling on his neck and chest for 9 minutes.


For the record, my post was asking those who are saying the autopsies change everything what the story is now, because both autopsies listed homicide and some have argued that he must’ve resisted so badly they needed to sit on him for nine minutes, but are now saying he essentially overdosed. It can’t be both.

In short, I agree with you, but you’re explaining it from a medical standpoint.

Again, this changes nothing.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858143 06/02/20 03:27 AM
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No I didn’t miss that part, I saw that but it wasn’t active meth in his system, it was a history of meth in his system which means either they detected the breakdown products of meth or saw some tell tale signs of meth use. The ME report said nothing about active meth in his system. Only fentanyl.

Look I am not trying to get in a shouting or pissing match with anyone on this. All I am
Saying is the ME report said the guy had fentanyl in his system, and the heart attack was linked to demons kneeing on his neck. That was specifically in the ME report. What was not in the report was any details of how they came to that conclusion. Would love to see the actual findings, but most on here wouldn’t understand most of it and I would understand only some of it. Still would be interesting to read.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Duck_Hunter] #7858150 06/02/20 03:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
I will say again, opioids did not cause a heart attack unless there is respiratory failure first. Opioids cause respiratory failure, and the lack of oxygen caused by the respiratory failure will eventually lead to a heart attack and death. But someone strung out to that point is laying down, turning blue, and even then they have quite some time before they die. This guy was not strung out on fentanyl. He didn’t die from fentanyl and the fentanyl didn’t contemporaneously cause his death. The heart attack killed him and that can be linked to someone kneeling on his neck and chest for 9 minutes.


For the record, my post was asking those who are saying the autopsies change everything what the story is now, because both autopsies listed homicide and some have argued that he must’ve resisted so badly they needed to sit on him for nine minutes, but are now saying he essentially overdosed. It can’t be both.

In short, I agree with you, but you’re explaining it from a medical standpoint.

Again, this changes nothing.


No, the report only says fentanyl intoxication, meaning it was in his system. We have all seen someone who is tipsy, someone who is drunk, someone who is crunk, and hopefully not many have seen someone with alcohol overdose. There are levels of intoxication, but a fentanyl overdose would be him laying on the ground catatonic and not breathing. That’s not what the ME report is saying, it just stares fentanyl intoxication which means he had some fentanyl in his system. Technicalities that mean a lot to medical examiners but can be confusing due to the language.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: S.A. hunter] #7858154 06/02/20 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by S.A. hunter
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by pdr55
Copied from drug free.org.
Controlled substance
High risk for addiction and dependence. Can cause respiratory distress and death when taken in high doses or when combined with other substances, especially alcohol.


Please listen to this when I say this, opioids cause respiratory failure when someone takes too much. Most of us have taken some form of opioids, Percocet, OxyContin, etc, for surgeries and when taken in moderation they do nothing other than give a little high from feeling good but they pose no risk to death. Only when they are taken in such high doses do opioids have a risk for death, and in that situation the user is laying down, unresponsive and not breathing or breathing very shallowly. This was NOT the situation Floyd was in. He was awake, talking. Trying to pass a bad check. Could the opioids explain him trying to pass a bad check? Sure. They do NOT explain away a heart attack because opioids don’t cause those.

Ask any paramedic why they carry Narcan in their units now, it’s to be an antidote for opioid overdose and get the person breathing again.


First of all of this could be nothing more than a red herring.

Now think about this one M.E. said Cardiac Arrest, one said respiratory arrest. Floyd claimed he couldn't breath, clearly his airway wasn't obstructed, but could Fentanyl which is known for respiratory arrest have played a roll in that?

If a someone says fentanyl "changes nothing" in a patient that say he cant breath....... well that just doesn't seem right.


If you have never seen folks on opioids then you would understand. Not trying to be a “know it all” but the respiratory distress from opioids comes right at the end of an overdose. It is a sudden onset but when it happens people just pass out and don’t complain they can’t breathe. The high puts them into a catatonic stare where they just don’t have a will to do anything. Someone ODing on fentanyl would not complain for 4 minutes they can’t breathe and then suddenly go down unless they were still using. They take the hit, the body shuts down, and they go to sleep. The amount of fentanyl needed to do this would be based upon the tolerance level of the user too, the more you use the more it takes.

Anyway, the video does not support someone ODing on opioids. It supports someone being essentially crushed to death by three people sitting on him and reducing his ability to breathe up until he passed out and then still sitting for three more minutes

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858162 06/02/20 03:55 AM
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^^^^^^^^^^truth^^^^^^^^^^^


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Nothing to see here. . . . Look! A squirrel!
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Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858165 06/02/20 03:58 AM
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I can’t read all the back and forth. But I have not seen anywhere that Floyd died from a heart attack.
I see he died from cardiopulmonary arrest, cardiac arrest. Which is a stoppage of the heart.

I’m no pathologist. But a heart attack seems more of blockage related.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: HWY_MAN] #7858168 06/02/20 04:06 AM
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Common lay term for cardiopulmonary arrant is a heart attack. It just means the heart stopped working. A lot of different causes. Coronary artery Blockage is just one cause.

But you are correct, the terminology gets fuzzy when we converse in lay terms and don’t use the scientific terms. Certain assumptions are made with heart attack vs cardiac failure.

Re: Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy [Re: Texas buckeye] #7858180 06/02/20 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter
Originally Posted by Texas buckeye
I will say again, opioids did not cause a heart attack unless there is respiratory failure first. Opioids cause respiratory failure, and the lack of oxygen caused by the respiratory failure will eventually lead to a heart attack and death. But someone strung out to that point is laying down, turning blue, and even then they have quite some time before they die. This guy was not strung out on fentanyl. He didn’t die from fentanyl and the fentanyl didn’t contemporaneously cause his death. The heart attack killed him and that can be linked to someone kneeling on his neck and chest for 9 minutes.


For the record, my post was asking those who are saying the autopsies change everything what the story is now, because both autopsies listed homicide and some have argued that he must’ve resisted so badly they needed to sit on him for nine minutes, but are now saying he essentially overdosed. It can’t be both.

In short, I agree with you, but you’re explaining it from a medical standpoint.

Again, this changes nothing.


No, the report only says fentanyl intoxication, meaning it was in his system. We have all seen someone who is tipsy, someone who is drunk, someone who is crunk, and hopefully not many have seen someone with alcohol overdose. There are levels of intoxication, but a fentanyl overdose would be him laying on the ground catatonic and not breathing. That’s not what the ME report is saying, it just stares fentanyl intoxication which means he had some fentanyl in his system. Technicalities that mean a lot to medical examiners but can be confusing due to the language.


I’m talking about the people here and social media saying the autopsy exonerates the officers.


Originally Posted By: bill oxner
I just turned it on . I was looking bird dogs in the butt this morning.


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