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pacheck protection program? #7852945 05/27/20 08:28 PM
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So I don't know much about the program but as I understand it, it was in order to provide for employers who stayed open/didn't lay off employees to continue to pay their workers.

So say Jim works for a company that pays him based off of commission. Jims boss received money from PPP. Does Jim's boss get to pay him using the PPP funds and pocket the commission check that would normally be his paycheck? Jim has no set base salary.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852946 05/27/20 08:30 PM
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I don't think even the IRS or Treasury could answer that....so, in other words, yes

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852948 05/27/20 08:33 PM
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Other than I don't know anyone named Jim, I don't see why it would be difficult to answer.

If you are compensated for your work 100% on commission. Your company applied for and received PPP funds. What happens to the revenue your company takes in that would usually be your commission check?

Last edited by redchevy; 05/27/20 08:34 PM.

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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852949 05/27/20 08:34 PM
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One of the major negatives of working a primarily commission driven job.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: rickym] #7852954 05/27/20 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by rickym
One of the major negatives of working a primarily commission driven job.

To the worker I don't see how it makes a difference. He is getting paid the same amount either way. But the company is getting to have their cake and eat it too so to speak.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852960 05/27/20 08:38 PM
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This is way I understand it. If the company applied for PPP based on Jim making $50,000 and they pay Jim less than $50,000 the company is going to owe back the difference. What they actually paid Jim durimg.their period will be forgiven.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852961 05/27/20 08:39 PM
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It had to be used to maintain payroll - 75% of it at least for it to be considered a grant. Payroll docs had to be provided for the calculation. So it would have been an average of Jim's commissions. So yes - the company would use the funds to maintain Jim's wages - which had to be documented and had to be no less than Jim's average wage over x period. So it would suck for Jim if he made a huge commission because he'd likely just be getting the average for that 8 week period after his company received the PPP.

It was a much more simple calculation for self-employed. Net income based on schedule c for 2019 divided by 52 x 8 for the forgivable portion. Other 25% had to be used on qualifying expenses to be completely forgiven - otherwise the 75% was forgiven and the other can be returned or turned into a 18 mo loan @ 1%.

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852963 05/27/20 08:41 PM
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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852968 05/27/20 08:43 PM
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I have only been watching the BS that has been issued about the PPP, my understanding the funds have to go to the employees, or it will not be forgivable.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: dogcatcher] #7852974 05/27/20 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dogcatcher
I have only been watching the BS that has been issued about the PPP, my understanding the funds have to go to the employees, or it will not be forgivable.


Part of it goes toward payroll paid to employees, not sure if commissions are part of that

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852975 05/27/20 08:48 PM
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I'll sit on my hands here

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852997 05/27/20 09:03 PM
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Requirements are that Jim has to be paid at least 75% of his pre-COVID earnings during the applicable time period for the PPP funds to be considered for forgiveness. Max forgivable amount is $15,385 per employee. Doesn't matter if you are hourly, salary, or commission.

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7852999 05/27/20 09:05 PM
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I knew Doc would know

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853005 05/27/20 09:12 PM
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https://www.alta.org/news/news.cfm?...lify-for-SBA-Paycheck-Protection-Program

Quote
Payroll costs that can be covered by a PPP includes all cash compensation to employees (whose principal place of residence is the United States) in the form of salary, wages, commissions, or similar compensation; cash tips or the equivalent (based on employer records of past tips or, in the absence of such records, a ...


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: DocHorton] #7853057 05/27/20 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DocHorton
Requirements are that Jim has to be paid at least 75% of his pre-COVID earnings during the applicable time period for the PPP funds to be considered for forgiveness. Max forgivable amount is $15,385 per employee. Doesn't matter if you are hourly, salary, or commission.





^ This. When companies apply for PPP loans they have to supply IRS 940 or 941 forms detailing what each employee was making in the year or quarter prior. If they don't pay 75% of that total amount back out to employees during the COVID shutdown period, the the loan won't be forgiven.

BUT.. like all government programs there is potential for abuse. A company could lay off all their employees and spend the funds on things other than payroll. If they do this, it simply turns into a long term low interest SBA loan. It's not in the spirit of the program, but it is legal. I can see businesses take this avenue in certain situations. I know one restaurant owner that is doing this exact thing. Layed off everyone and used the COVID down time and PPP loan to remodel his location. Feels justified in that his folks got unemployment +$600 week while he was shut down. In the long run his PPP loan DID employ people (remodelers).


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: dkershen] #7853069 05/27/20 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dkershen
Originally Posted by DocHorton
Requirements are that Jim has to be paid at least 75% of his pre-COVID earnings during the applicable time period for the PPP funds to be considered for forgiveness. Max forgivable amount is $15,385 per employee. Doesn't matter if you are hourly, salary, or commission.





^ This. When companies apply for PPP loans they have to supply IRS 940 or 941 forms detailing what each employee was making in the year or quarter prior. If they don't pay 75% of that total amount back out to employees during the COVID shutdown period, the the loan won't be forgiven.

BUT.. like all government programs there is potential for abuse. A company could lay off all their employees and spend the funds on things other than payroll. If they do this, it simply turns into a long term low interest SBA loan. It's not in the spirit of the program, but it is legal. I can see businesses take this avenue in certain situations. I know one restaurant owner that is doing this exact thing. Layed off everyone and used the COVID down time and PPP loan to remodel his location. Feels justified in that his folks got unemployment +$600 week while he was shut down. In the long run his PPP loan DID employ people (remodelers).


If he could have paid the remodelers via payroll, the loan would have been forgiven. The payroll report, not the names, is how the loan forgiveness is calculated.

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: Hudbone] #7853119 05/27/20 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudbone
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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: bill oxner] #7853155 05/27/20 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bill oxner
Originally Posted by Hudbone
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That just sounds weird confused2


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853186 05/28/20 12:51 AM
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I stupid program


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853266 05/28/20 02:18 AM
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So whatever they don’t pay out to employees either goes back or becomes a loan is what I’m hearing.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853334 05/28/20 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
So whatever they don’t pay out to employees either goes back or becomes a loan is what I’m hearing.


I thought it was 85% had to be spent on overhead and then it was forgiven? I could be wrong, I haven't been paying attention.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853348 05/28/20 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
So whatever they don’t pay out to employees either goes back or becomes a loan is what I’m hearing.


For the funds, 75% must be towards payroll, 25% can be for rent, loan interest, or utilities. But you are correct, any amount not forgiven must be paid back within 2 years.

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853409 05/28/20 07:44 AM
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What's weird is self employed folks expecting $10k......

Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: redchevy] #7853519 05/28/20 01:12 PM
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I’m self employed, I didn’t even think about applying.


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Re: pacheck protection program? [Re: 68rustbucket] #7853531 05/28/20 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 68rustbucket
I’m self employed, I didn’t even think about applying.
me neither - the belief here is that while some had merit, too many had none

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