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pacheck protection program?
#7852945
05/27/20 08:28 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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So I don't know much about the program but as I understand it, it was in order to provide for employers who stayed open/didn't lay off employees to continue to pay their workers.
So say Jim works for a company that pays him based off of commission. Jims boss received money from PPP. Does Jim's boss get to pay him using the PPP funds and pocket the commission check that would normally be his paycheck? Jim has no set base salary.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852946
05/27/20 08:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,416
TLew
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I don't think even the IRS or Treasury could answer that....so, in other words, yes
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852948
05/27/20 08:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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Other than I don't know anyone named Jim, I don't see why it would be difficult to answer.
If you are compensated for your work 100% on commission. Your company applied for and received PPP funds. What happens to the revenue your company takes in that would usually be your commission check?
Last edited by redchevy; 05/27/20 08:34 PM.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852949
05/27/20 08:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 11,510
rickym
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One of the major negatives of working a primarily commission driven job.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: rickym]
#7852954
05/27/20 08:36 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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One of the major negatives of working a primarily commission driven job. To the worker I don't see how it makes a difference. He is getting paid the same amount either way. But the company is getting to have their cake and eat it too so to speak.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852960
05/27/20 08:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,590
chalet
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This is way I understand it. If the company applied for PPP based on Jim making $50,000 and they pay Jim less than $50,000 the company is going to owe back the difference. What they actually paid Jim durimg.their period will be forgiven.
Shoot. Eat. Repeat.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852961
05/27/20 08:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,695
Cochise
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It had to be used to maintain payroll - 75% of it at least for it to be considered a grant. Payroll docs had to be provided for the calculation. So it would have been an average of Jim's commissions. So yes - the company would use the funds to maintain Jim's wages - which had to be documented and had to be no less than Jim's average wage over x period. So it would suck for Jim if he made a huge commission because he'd likely just be getting the average for that 8 week period after his company received the PPP.
It was a much more simple calculation for self-employed. Net income based on schedule c for 2019 divided by 52 x 8 for the forgivable portion. Other 25% had to be used on qualifying expenses to be completely forgiven - otherwise the 75% was forgiven and the other can be returned or turned into a 18 mo loan @ 1%.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852963
05/27/20 08:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852968
05/27/20 08:43 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,788
dogcatcher
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I have only been watching the BS that has been issued about the PPP, my understanding the funds have to go to the employees, or it will not be forgivable.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: dogcatcher]
#7852974
05/27/20 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 12,705
Paluxy
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I have only been watching the BS that has been issued about the PPP, my understanding the funds have to go to the employees, or it will not be forgivable. Part of it goes toward payroll paid to employees, not sure if commissions are part of that
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852975
05/27/20 08:48 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,023
Hudbone
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I'll sit on my hands here
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852997
05/27/20 09:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
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Requirements are that Jim has to be paid at least 75% of his pre-COVID earnings during the applicable time period for the PPP funds to be considered for forgiveness. Max forgivable amount is $15,385 per employee. Doesn't matter if you are hourly, salary, or commission.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7852999
05/27/20 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,023
Hudbone
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853005
05/27/20 09:12 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,788
dogcatcher
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https://www.alta.org/news/news.cfm?...lify-for-SBA-Paycheck-Protection-ProgramPayroll costs that can be covered by a PPP includes all cash compensation to employees (whose principal place of residence is the United States) in the form of salary, wages, commissions, or similar compensation; cash tips or the equivalent (based on employer records of past tips or, in the absence of such records, a ...
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: DocHorton]
#7853057
05/27/20 10:19 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 24,258
dkershen
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Requirements are that Jim has to be paid at least 75% of his pre-COVID earnings during the applicable time period for the PPP funds to be considered for forgiveness. Max forgivable amount is $15,385 per employee. Doesn't matter if you are hourly, salary, or commission.
^ This. When companies apply for PPP loans they have to supply IRS 940 or 941 forms detailing what each employee was making in the year or quarter prior. If they don't pay 75% of that total amount back out to employees during the COVID shutdown period, the the loan won't be forgiven. BUT.. like all government programs there is potential for abuse. A company could lay off all their employees and spend the funds on things other than payroll. If they do this, it simply turns into a long term low interest SBA loan. It's not in the spirit of the program, but it is legal. I can see businesses take this avenue in certain situations. I know one restaurant owner that is doing this exact thing. Layed off everyone and used the COVID down time and PPP loan to remodel his location. Feels justified in that his folks got unemployment +$600 week while he was shut down. In the long run his PPP loan DID employ people (remodelers).
To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target.www.NewHopeEquine.com - Health and Healing through Horses.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: dkershen]
#7853069
05/27/20 10:31 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,097
texasag93
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Requirements are that Jim has to be paid at least 75% of his pre-COVID earnings during the applicable time period for the PPP funds to be considered for forgiveness. Max forgivable amount is $15,385 per employee. Doesn't matter if you are hourly, salary, or commission.
^ This. When companies apply for PPP loans they have to supply IRS 940 or 941 forms detailing what each employee was making in the year or quarter prior. If they don't pay 75% of that total amount back out to employees during the COVID shutdown period, the the loan won't be forgiven. BUT.. like all government programs there is potential for abuse. A company could lay off all their employees and spend the funds on things other than payroll. If they do this, it simply turns into a long term low interest SBA loan. It's not in the spirit of the program, but it is legal. I can see businesses take this avenue in certain situations. I know one restaurant owner that is doing this exact thing. Layed off everyone and used the COVID down time and PPP loan to remodel his location. Feels justified in that his folks got unemployment +$600 week while he was shut down. In the long run his PPP loan DID employ people (remodelers). If he could have paid the remodelers via payroll, the loan would have been forgiven. The payroll report, not the names, is how the loan forgiveness is calculated.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: Hudbone]
#7853119
05/27/20 11:20 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 91,416
bill oxner
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Quail hunting is like walking into, and out of a beautiful painting all day long. Gene Hill
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: bill oxner]
#7853155
05/27/20 11:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,771
The Dude Abides
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That just sounds weird
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853186
05/28/20 12:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 5,716
tigger
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Tigger If it isn't white it is not a birddog.
KC Lying is lying. Don't bitch about one doing it and condone another. That's called hypocrisy. _________________
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853266
05/28/20 02:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 39,481
redchevy
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So whatever they don’t pay out to employees either goes back or becomes a loan is what I’m hearing.
It's hell eatin em live
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853334
05/28/20 03:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 29,105
TXHOGSLAYER
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So whatever they don’t pay out to employees either goes back or becomes a loan is what I’m hearing. I thought it was 85% had to be spent on overhead and then it was forgiven? I could be wrong, I haven't been paying attention.
LETS GO BRANDON
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853348
05/28/20 03:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 8,841
DocHorton
THF Trophy Hunter
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So whatever they don’t pay out to employees either goes back or becomes a loan is what I’m hearing. For the funds, 75% must be towards payroll, 25% can be for rent, loan interest, or utilities. But you are correct, any amount not forgiven must be paid back within 2 years.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853409
05/28/20 07:44 AM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 17,712
Txduckman
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What's weird is self employed folks expecting $10k......
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: redchevy]
#7853519
05/28/20 01:12 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 16,562
68rustbucket
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I’m self employed, I didn’t even think about applying.
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Re: pacheck protection program?
[Re: 68rustbucket]
#7853531
05/28/20 01:22 PM
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Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 14,023
Hudbone
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I’m self employed, I didn’t even think about applying. me neither - the belief here is that while some had merit, too many had none
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