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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: scottfromdallas] #7845103 05/20/20 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
After serving in the Air Force and moving back to Texas in 93, I went to several gun shows with my buddy over the next several years. I was amazed at how many Seals, Rangers & other special forces people I met. Of course my BS meter would go off. I made the comment to him that no one claims to be just a grunt. I asked him where are all the grunts?


You ain't lying. Any real grunt would puff up his chest and proudly proclaim the Infantry wink


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: 10 Gauge] #7845641 05/20/20 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
Originally Posted by scottfromdallas
After serving in the Air Force and moving back to Texas in 93, I went to several gun shows with my buddy over the next several years. I was amazed at how many Seals, Rangers & other special forces people I met. Of course my BS meter would go off. I made the comment to him that no one claims to be just a grunt. I asked him where are all the grunts?


You ain't lying. Any real grunt would puff up his chest and proudly proclaim the Infantry wink

Everything else is a support unit. up


Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: dogcatcher] #7845749 05/20/20 05:59 PM
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This may not be relevant to this thread but I'll put it on anyway. Is it just me that finds that anyone that refers to Viet Nam as tha Nam or da Nam or something like that are usually full of "stuff"? Just my thought.

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #7845925 05/20/20 09:05 PM
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I don't know about that but one thing is for sure, everybody is getting tired of "support the vets". So many people trying to make money off it and so many entitled vets and/or stolen valor and people milking if, has made people just kind of bored of it. I sure am. I don't wana take anything away from our vets, especially not wounded vets Or the ones that made the ultimate sacrifice or especialy their families. Or anyone that has done anything noteworthy. It is just the truth.


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #7849563 05/24/20 05:47 PM
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Can't say I am tired of "Support the vets" but people that practice "Stolen valor" turn my stomach. Lost both brothers to Agent Orange and their families went through hell getting benefits. Also don't believe the "Draft" should have been done away with. But, it's Memorial Day weekend and that's just my opinion. To each his own.


Don't talk the talk if you didn't walk the walk.
Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8043026 11/09/20 02:06 AM
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I remember back in my soldiering days back during the war in the 1980s.

I never embellish my military record and service.

I was in an elite unit and served as a 68E.

I probably deserved the purple heart, but didn't put in for it.

One day while performing my hazardous duties, I was bitten on my right index finger while taking an Xray.
It didn't break the skin, but it did hurt. Anyway, it wasn't during actual combat, so no purple heart. lol.

I say all this in jest, because I often make light of my own 7 years of military service in the National Guard by telling some great dramatic tale of danger only revealing I was a dental specialist at the end of the story
and that my hazardous duty was shooting xrays and assisting in pulling teeth and oral surgery in the War Against Tooth Decay.

I salute the guys that actually did brave combat fields defending our freedoms and those of other folks around the world. .

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8056080 11/19/20 10:06 AM
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Fake SEAL pleads guilty to stolen valor...

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/news/stolen-valor.html


Originally Posted by Sneaky
I believe in science and I’m an insufferable [censored]
Originally Posted by beaversnipe
Actually, BBC is pretty damn good

"You Cannot Simultaneously Be Politically Correct And Intellectually Honest!"
Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8056099 11/19/20 11:06 AM
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I was a REMF, did the "foreign" tour in Ft. Sill, OK. One injury was a severe paper cut from poor skills at typewriter. Salute to the frontline guys!

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8058249 11/21/20 01:26 AM
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It doesn't matter what your MOS was while in the service. All of us were needed to protect our country whether you were a clerk, cook, mechanic, infantry or special ops. We were all needed to do exactly what we were assigned to do so we are all heroes. Even me, I fueled helicopters.


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: SnakeWrangler] #8058720 11/21/20 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SnakeWrangler
Fake SEAL pleads guilty to stolen valor...

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/news/stolen-valor.html


Absurd

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8078147 12/06/20 01:31 PM
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USAF, 64-68. One of the first computer guys. Never heard a shot fired in anger. And never claimed to. Did my entire four year hitch, after tech school at Wichita Falls Shepherd AFB, at Luke AFB outside of Phoenix. Made E5 which was pretty unusual in less than 4 years. I enjoyed the desert but wanted to see other places. I put in a lot of volunteer paperwork to get to Vietnam. I figured that would be easy but it never happened. Did 4 different TDI's at other bases due to their NCO's getting shipped to SE Asia.

As my hitch was ending, I went through my last Re UP talk at Personnel. I knew the guy and he showed me my Xfer to Vietnam if I re upped. I had already put in paper work to get back into college at Arlington State College, now UTA. I went home.

Always look back and sorta wish that I had taken them up on it. But, I had gotten married and had a Wife and daughter. I had seen a lot of guys ship out and their wives playing around. Didn't want that.


Without a sense of urgency, nothing ever happens.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley, Rancher Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8079082 12/07/20 04:03 AM
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You made the right decision. Shame on them for trying to lure you back in that way. Cutthroat mf recruiters, probably would have screwed you anyhow.


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8081957 12/09/20 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by patfatdaddy
It doesn't matter what your MOS was while in the service. All of us were needed to protect our country whether you were a clerk, cook, mechanic, infantry or special ops. We were all needed to do exactly what we were assigned to do so we are all heroes. Even me, I fueled helicopters.


You may have fueled mine one day. LoL I am another REMF that never made it to any combat zone from Vietnam to Desert Storm even when I asked. I am a Vietnam ERA veteran and don't mind saying so, but I will not EVER say I am a Vietnam Veteran. I think that is reserved to those who actually spent time in that hell hole. As a DUSTOFF pilot, I knew that I would be going as soon as I got out of flight school and also my survival rate wasn't very good but was proud of the mission we had anywhere we were. I think it has been said in this thread, but if you ever met anyone who was a real hero, you wouldn't know it unless someone else told you about it. Think Mike Novasel and the likes of him. Just good ole boys who did something that they thought was the right thing to do at the time never thinking that "hey, this will make me a hero". I too wish these imposters would get slapped down right away, but they will get their punishment in due time.

Thanks all of you who have served, in whatever capacity. BTW, when I was in, (a long time ago) the average number of troops who saw combat was only 10% of the total Army. All the rest were support or reserve re-inforcements for when they were needed.

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8086768 12/12/20 07:20 PM
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Unbelievable

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8456833 11/23/21 04:47 AM
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This whole subject chars my arsehole...my favorite Uncle did two tours in Vietnam, gave 25 years to the Army and died 34 years later from exposure to Agent Orange. My brother who is 52 is retiring now as a Major in the Texas Army National Guard which he went into when he was commissioned a LT after college. He's had numerous deployments and gave the NG his professional career, even though the last few years have been hell on him since like me - he isn't woke enough. He should have retired a Colonel but while a great soldier and leader not the best when it comes to politics (same as me).

I guess having people try to mimic your service is better than what my Uncle came home to in '68, but still it dishonors the real soldiers service and sacrifice and chaps my butt.

Earl

Last edited by Earl; 11/23/21 04:51 AM.

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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8457046 11/23/21 03:13 PM
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Was in the Navy from 1970-1976, so technically during Vietnam Era. Never set foot over there. Spent most of the time pushing a submarine full of nuclear warheads around 3 different oceans, in the Cold War against Russia. Had a few exciting moments for the entire crew, but nothing individually dangerous. Still proud of every day of my service.

The stories that get to us is that every sub sailor was on a hunter killer fast boat, doing black ops stuff, and have been sworn to secrecy about ever talking about where they went!!! Some did, but those guys are very rare.

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8459941 11/27/21 02:21 AM
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There are far too many people out there doing that same thing, veterans included. Just be proud of what you did and be done with it. And, far too many veterans out there are stabbing other veterans in the back just to get ahead. If there is such a thing as BROTHERHOOD, I havent seen it for a very long time. Ive been screwed worse by other veteerans than any civilian ever tried to shaft me and for nothing. Anyway, thats enough of the soapbox. I would like to get out and hunt while there is still anyplace to hunt on. I live in Killeen, Tx outside Fort Hood Army Base. God bless ya'll and have a great Christmas

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8471960 12/10/21 10:13 PM
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I had two uncles that served. One was a medic in Korea and one with the 173rd Sky Soldiers in Vietnam. I know they both saw horrific things but the common dominator is they never talked about it.

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8472061 12/10/21 11:48 PM
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I had the great honor and pleasure to work with Dave here in Idaho, at the nuclear facility when I got out of the Navy. What a gentle giant of a man. He never wanted to talk about the things he did, or could do - just was always more interested in you and family news. That's the way most of them are!!

https://www.cmohs.org/recipients/david-b-bleak

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8472165 12/11/21 02:10 AM
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Some facts, stats and myths about the Vietnam war. https://www.uswings.com/about-us-wings/vietnam-war-facts/

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Vietnam War: Facts, Stats & Myths
Credit: Capt. Marshal Hanson, USNR (Ret.) and Capt. Scott Beaton, Statistical Source
The following information is presented “as is” as a public service.
9,087,000 military personnel served on active duty during the official Vietnam era from August 5, 1964 to May 7, 1975.
2,709,918 Americans served in uniform in Vietnam.
Vietnam Veterans represented 9.7% of their generation.
240 men were awarded the Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War.
The first man to die in Vietnam was James Davis, in 1961. He was with the 509th Radio Research Station. Davis Station in Saigon was named for him.
58,148 were killed in Vietnam.
75,000 were severely disabled.
23,214 were 100% disabled.
5,283 lost limbs.
1,081 sustained multiple amputations.
Of those killed, 61% were younger than 21.
11,465 of those killed were younger than 20 years old.
Of those killed, 17,539 were married.
Average age of men killed: 23.1 years.
Five men killed in Vietnam were only 16 years old.
The oldest man killed was 62 years old.
As of January 15, 2004, there are 1,875 Americans still unaccounted for from the Vietnam War.
97% of Vietnam Veterans were honorably discharged.
91% of Vietnam Veterans say they are glad they served.
74% say they would serve again, even knowing the outcome.
Vietnam veterans have a lower unemployment rate than the same non-vet age groups.
Vietnam veterans’ personal income exceeds that of our non-veteran age group by more than 18 percent.
87% of Americans hold Vietnam Veterans in high esteem.
There is no difference in drug usage between Vietnam Veterans and non-Vietnam Veterans of the same age group (Source: Veterans Administration Study).
Vietnam Veterans are less likely to be in prison – only one-half of one percent of Vietnam Veterans have been jailed for crimes.
85% of Vietnam Veterans made successful transitions to civilian life.
Common Vietnam War Myths Dispelled:
Myth: Common belief is that most Vietnam veterans were drafted.
Fact: 2/3 of the men who served in Vietnam were volunteers. 2/3 of the men who served in World War II were drafted. Approximately 70% of those killed in Vietnam were volunteers.
Myth: The media have reported that suicides among Vietnam veterans range from 50,000 to 100,000 – 6 to 11 times the non-Vietnam veteran population.
Fact: Mortality studies show that 9,000 is a better estimate. “The CDC Vietnam Experience Study Mortality Assessment showed that during the first 5 years after discharge, deaths from suicide were 1.7 times more likely among Vietnam veterans than non-Vietnam veterans. After that initial post-service period, Vietnam veterans were no more likely to die from suicide than non-Vietnam veterans. In fact, after the 5-year post-service period, the rate of suicides is less in the Vietnam veterans’ group.
Myth: Common belief is that a disproportionate number of blacks were killed in the Vietnam War.
Fact: 86% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasians, 12.5% were black, 1.2% were other races. Sociologists Charles C. Moskos and John Sibley Butler, in their recently published book “All That We Can Be,” said they analyzed the claim that blacks were used like cannon fodder during Vietnam “and can report definitely that this charge is untrue. Black fatalities amounted to 12 percent of all Americans killed in Southeast Asia, a figure proportional to the number of blacks in the U.S. population at the time and slightly lower than the proportion of blacks in the Army at the close of the war.”
Myth: Common belief is that the war was fought largely by the poor and uneducated.
Fact: Servicemen who went to Vietnam from well-to-do areas had a slightly elevated risk of dying because they were more likely to be pilots or infantry officers. Vietnam Veterans were the best educated forces our nation had ever sent into combat. 79% had a high school education or better.
Myth: The common belief is the average age of an infantryman fighting in Vietnam was 19.
Fact: Assuming KIAs accurately represented age groups serving in Vietnam, the average age of an infantryman (MOS 11B) serving in Vietnam to be 19 years old is a myth, it is actually 22. None of the enlisted grades have an average age of less than 20. The average man who fought in World War II was 26 years of age.
Myth: The common belief is that the domino theory was proved false.
Fact: The domino theory was accurate. The ASEAN (Association of Southeast Asian Nations) countries, Philippines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand stayed free of Communism because of the U.S. commitment to Vietnam. The Indonesians threw the Soviets out in 1966 because of America’s commitment in Vietnam. Without that commitment, Communism would have swept all the way to the Malacca Straits that is south of Singapore and of great strategic importance to the free world. If you ask people who live in these countries that won the war in Vietnam, they have a different opinion from the American news media. The Vietnam War was the turning point for Communism.
Myth: The common belief is that the fighting in Vietnam was not as intense as in World War II.
Fact: The average infantryman in the South Pacific during World War II saw about 40 days of combat in four years. The average infantryman in Vietnam saw about 240 days of combat in one year thanks to the mobility of the helicopter. One out of every 10 Americans who served in Vietnam was a casualty. 58,148 were killed and 304,000 wounded out of 2.7 million who served. Although the percent that died is similar to other wars, amputations or crippling wounds were 300 percent higher than in World War II. 75,000 Vietnam veterans are severely disabled. MEDEVAC helicopters flew nearly 500,000 missions. Over 900,000 patients were airlifted (nearly half were American). The average time lapse between wounding to hospitalization was less than one hour. As a result, less than one percent of all Americans wounded, who survived the first 24 hours, died. The helicopter provided unprecedented mobility. Without the helicopter it would have taken three times as many troops to secure the 800 mile border with Cambodia and Laos (the politicians thought the Geneva Conventions of 1954 and the Geneva Accords or 1962 would secure the border).
Myth: Kim Phuc, the little nine year old Vietnamese girl running naked from the napalm strike near Trang Bang on 8 June 1972 (shown a million times on American television) was burned by Americans bombing Trang Bang.
Fact: No American had involvement in this incident near Trang Bang that burned Phan Thi Kim Phuc. The planes doing the bombing near the village were VNAF (Vietnam Air Force) and were being flown by Vietnamese pilots in support of South Vietnamese troops on the ground. The Vietnamese pilot who dropped the napalm in error is currently living in the United States. Even the AP photographer, Nick Ut, who took the picture, was Vietnamese. The incident in the photo took place on the second day of a three day battle between the North Vietnamese Army (NVA) who occupied the village of Trang Bang and the ARVN (Army of the Republic of Vietnam) who were trying to force the NVA out of the village. Recent reports in the news media that an American commander ordered the air strike that burned Kim Phuc are incorrect. There were no Americans involved in any capacity. “We (Americans) had nothing to do with controlling VNAF,” according to Lieutenant General (Ret) James F. Hollingsworth, the Commanding General of TRAC at that time. Also, it has been incorrectly reported that two of Kim Phuc’s brothers were killed in this incident. They were Kim’s cousins not her brothers.
Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.
Fact: The American military was not defeated in Vietnam. The American military did not lose a battle of any consequence. From a military standpoint, it was almost an unprecedented performance. General Westmoreland quoting Douglas Pike (a professor at the University of California, Berkeley), a major military defeat for the VC and NVA.
US Army Vietnam Veteran Cap
US Army Vietnam Veteran Cap
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Army Caps, US Army, Veteran Accessories, Veteran Caps
Statistics from the Combat Area Casualty File (CACF) as of November 1993
(the CACF is the basis for the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, aka The Wall)
Average age of 58,148 killed in Vietnam was 23.11 years (Although 58,169 names are in the Nov. 93 database, only 58,148 have both event date and birth date. Event date is used instead of declared dead date for some of those who were listed as missing in action).
Deaths Average Age
Total: 58,148, 23.11 years
Enlisted: 50,274, 22.37 years
Officers: 6,598, 28.43 years
Warrants: 1,276, 24.73 years
E1 525, 20.34 years
11B MOS: 18,465, 22.55 years
Interesting Census Stats and “Been There” Wanabees:
1,713,823 of those who served in Vietnam were still alive as of August, 1995 (census figures).
During that same Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served was: 9,492,958.
As of the current Census taken during August, 2000, the surviving U.S. Vietnam Veteran population estimate is: 1,002,511. This is hard to believe, losing nearly 711,000 between ’95 and ’00. That’s 390 per day. During this Census count, the number of Americans falsely claiming to have served in-country is: 13,853,027. By this census, FOUR OUT OF FIVE WHO CLAIM TO BE VIETNAM VETS ARE NOT.
The Department of Defense Vietnam War Service Index officially provided by The War Library originally reported with errors that 2,709,918 U.S. military personnel as having served in-country. Corrections and confirmations to this errored index resulted in the addition of 358 U.S. military personnel confirmed to have served in Vietnam but not originally listed by the Department of Defense (All names are currently on file and accessible 24/7/365).
Isolated atrocities committed by American Soldiers produced torrents of outrage from anti-war critics and the news media while Communist atrocities were so common that they received hardly any media mention at all. The United States sought to minimize and prevent attacks on civilians while North Vietnam made attacks on civilians a centerpiece of its strategy. Americans who deliberately killed civilians received prison sentences while Communists who did so received commendations. From 1957 to 1973, the National Liberation Front assassinated 36,725 Vietnamese and abducted another 58,499. The death squads focused on leaders at the village level and on anyone who improved the lives of the peasants such as medical personnel, social workers, and school teachers. – Nixon Presidential Papers.
The United States Did Not Lose The War In Vietnam, The South Vietnamese Did. Read On…
The fall of Saigon happened 30 April 1975, two years AFTER the American military left Vietnam. The last American troops departed in their entirety 29 March 1973.
How could we lose a war we had already stopped fighting? We fought to an agreed stalemate. The peace settlement was signed in Paris on 27 January 1973. It called for release of all U.S. prisoners, withdrawal of U.S. forces, limitation of both sides’ forces inside South Vietnam and a commitment to peaceful reunification. The 140,000 evacuees in April 1975 during the fall of Saigon consisted almost entirely of civilians and Vietnamese military, NOT American military running for their lives. There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 than there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. Thanks for the perceived loss and the countless assassinations and torture visited upon Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians goes mainly to the American media and their undying support-by-misrepresentation of the anti-War movement in the United States.
As with much of the Vietnam War, the news media misreported and misinterpreted the 1968 Tet Offensive. It was reported as an overwhelming success for the Communist forces and a decided defeat for the U.S. forces. Nothing could be further from the truth. Despite initial victories by the Communists forces, the Tet Offensive resulted in a major defeat of those forces. General Vo Nguyen Giap, the designer of the Tet Offensive, is considered by some as ranking with Wellington, Grant, Lee and MacArthur as a great commander. Still, militarily, the Tet Offensive was a total defeat of the Communist forces on all fronts. It resulted in the death of some 45,000 NVA troops and the complete, if not total destruction of the Viet Cong elements in South Vietnam. The Organization of the Viet Cong Units in the South never recovered. The Tet Offensive succeeded on only one front and that was the News front and the political arena. This was another example in the Vietnam War of an inaccuracy becoming the perceived truth. However, inaccurately reported, the News Media made the Tet Offensive famous.


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8472181 12/11/21 02:34 AM
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Some more Veteran trivia. Basically, it boils down to 7% of Americans have been in the military, out of that 7%, only 10% of those saw combat.

What percentage of the American population served in the military? 7%
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-percentage-of-americans-have-served-in-the-military/
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/04/05/the-changing-face-of-americas-veteran-population/

This is the most interesting link.
https://www.thesoldiersproject.org/what-percentage-of-the-military-sees-combat/

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40% of service members do NOT see combat, and of the remaining 60%, only 10% to 20% are deployed into the combat premise. Plus, the majority of these members enter the arena as supporting units.

They are not the soldiers that are facing enemies face-to-face. Only 10% of the entire military force engage in battle. To help you visualize, that is 1 in 10 soldiers.


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8474882 12/14/21 12:45 AM
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Facts. Most guys that do 20+ years and retire never fight.

War is mostly boring and monotonous dirty work. Building stuff, fixing stuff, guarding stuff, waiting for something to happen.

And usually only the best are selected for combat operations. There’re is a chance that the bad guys will pick you, but if you present a hard target they usually won’t.

There are always exceptions! Because it is unpredictable.

Last edited by Bryan C. Heimann; 12/14/21 12:48 AM.

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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8475024 12/14/21 03:20 AM
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Wish i had stolen mine !!!!!! But i had to do it the hard way,for 18 months!!!!! up

Re: Stolen Valor [Re: patfatdaddy] #8476165 12/15/21 03:37 AM
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I wouldn’t trade my time down range for anything. Would go back if I could. Best of times, worst of times


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Re: Stolen Valor [Re: 10 Gauge] #8476643 12/15/21 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,792
Originally Posted by Bryan C. Heimann
Facts. Most guys that do 20+ years and retire never fight.

War is mostly boring and monotonous dirty work. Building stuff, fixing stuff, guarding stuff, waiting for something to happen.

And usually only the best are selected for combat operations. There’re is a chance that the bad guys will pick you, but if you present a hard target they usually won’t.

There are always exceptions! Because it is unpredictable.

With 9 out of 10 people supporting the combat troops, many never see any action, but everyone of them is as important as the man that is on the frontlines. A good friend of mine joined the USAF about the same time I went in the Army. His first duty assignment after training was Dyess AFB. He retired at Dyess, never was stationed anywhere else, 20 years in the Base finance section making sure payday happened.


Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back.
_____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________

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