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Velocity decreasing with more powder??
#7829273
05/04/20 09:57 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 925
BigDad
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I've been doing some load development a new AR-15 in 350 Legend. This weekend I tried Lil' Gun powder, Lehigh Defense .355" 118 grain Xtreme Defense (solid copper) bullets, Starline Brass and CCI Small Rifle Magnum primers. I fired 3 five round strings and the average velocity decreased as the powder increased.
27.5 gr - 2509 fps 28.0 gr - 2490 fps 28.5 gr - 2431 fps
In my reloading experience I have seen velocity remain relatively unchanged with small powder increases but have never seen it drop like this. Has anyone else had this experience? What do you think caused it?
Joe
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7829308
05/04/20 10:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 4,067
Pig_Popper
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Powder not optimal for lighter projectile in your barrel length ?
Do you have a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel or spent case?
This space is For Sale - inquire within ...
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7829317
05/04/20 10:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 18,942
ChadTRG42
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Yes. Usually it means you have reach max pressure and adding more powder won't get you any more velocity. I'm not familiar with that caliber, bullet, and powder combination, so I'm not sure on the load data. Or the barrel may be getting seasoned in or fouled in.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7829574
05/05/20 01:33 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,633
DStroud
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"Anyone taking up handloading necessarily plays with unknown factors and takes chances. But so does anyone who drives a car,goes to a cocktail party,eats in a restaurant,or gets married."
Jack O'Connor 1963
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: DStroud]
#7829634
05/05/20 02:39 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 925
BigDad
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Powder not optimal for lighter projectile in your barrel length ?
Do you have a lot of unburnt powder in the barrel or spent case? I didn't notice any unburned powder. Labradar
Joe
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7829641
05/05/20 02:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,907
unclebubba
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Chad's answer is the one I have heard before.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7829649
05/05/20 02:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 32,486
kmon11
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What length barrel? I have seen it a few times where more powder velocity starts dropping.
lf the saying "Liar, Liar your pants on fire" were true Mainstream news might be fun to watch
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: kmon11]
#7829789
05/05/20 11:33 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 925
BigDad
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What length barrel? I have seen it a few times where more powder velocity starts dropping. Barrel length is 16". I think PP is correct and the bullet is too light for the powder type/burn rate and there's not enough pressure created. The brass and primers show no signs of over pressure and no unburned power in the case. I thought that since the bullet is solid copper there would be enough friction to generate sufficient pressure. The bullet has grooves that reduce bearing surface/friction and I think the pressure is just too low. I may need to try a faster burn rate powder or just live with 2500 fps. Thoughts?
Joe
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7830939
05/06/20 03:59 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 352
cblackall
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Is there any chance you got them mixed up and shot them out of order? I know it seems obvious, but it would make the most sense.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: cblackall]
#7831167
05/06/20 01:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 925
BigDad
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Is there any chance you got them mixed up and shot them out of order? I know it seems obvious, but it would make the most sense. That's the first thing I thought of, I am very meticulous and have a system I follow when reloading to prevent that kind of thing.
Joe
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7832986
05/07/20 11:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 257
corylane21
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Same seating depth from the lands?
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7833432
05/08/20 02:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 925
BigDad
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Yes, the rifle is an AR-15 so I'm not measuring from the lands but COAL is the same for all the rounds. I'm running some more loads over the Labradar this weekend will see if this reoccurs.
Joe
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7841004
05/16/20 02:17 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Texas Dan
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Sharing this for what it's worth. No idea as to what length a bedding issue would be applicable to your specific rifle but your problem came to mind as I was reading this source article. "One re-occurring mistake I have seen is hand loaders misreading bedding problems as signs of maximum pressures. Many hand loaders have been caught out with this and I dare say many readers have probably had the same problem. In this case, the shooter buys a new rifle, works up loads one grain at a time and discovers that at X grains, groups open right up. Later on, the load is put over a chronograph and it is discovered that the load is traveling 300fps slower than what should be the optimum pressure/velocity. The culprit is the bedding - as powder grains are increased, so does recoil torque to the bedding platform. If the bedding platform is unsound, groups will open up. Shooters using magnum powered cartridges are prone to this trap and often the load is 300 to 400fps below the optimum balance of velocity versus accuracy once the rifle is properly bedded." Source
Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/16/20 02:24 AM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7841058
05/16/20 02:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603
Sneaky
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Sharing this for what it's worth. No idea as to what length a bedding issue would be applicable to your specific rifle but your problem came to mind as I was reading this source article. "One re-occurring mistake I have seen is hand loaders misreading bedding problems as signs of maximum pressures. Many hand loaders have been caught out with this and I dare say many readers have probably had the same problem. In this case, the shooter buys a new rifle, works up loads one grain at a time and discovers that at X grains, groups open right up. Later on, the load is put over a chronograph and it is discovered that the load is traveling 300fps slower than what should be the optimum pressure/velocity. The culprit is the bedding - as powder grains are increased, so does recoil torque to the bedding platform. If the bedding platform is unsound, groups will open up. Shooters using magnum powered cartridges are prone to this trap and often the load is 300 to 400fps below the optimum balance of velocity versus accuracy once the rifle is properly bedded." SourceThat does not mention the OP’s issue. I sincerely hope you find relief for your dementia or your addiction, soon, whichever it is. It’s truly sad to see.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: Sneaky]
#7841105
05/16/20 03:19 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Texas Dan
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Sharing this for what it's worth. No idea as to what length a bedding issue would be applicable to your specific rifle but your problem came to mind as I was reading this source article. "One re-occurring mistake I have seen is hand loaders misreading bedding problems as signs of maximum pressures. Many hand loaders have been caught out with this and I dare say many readers have probably had the same problem. In this case, the shooter buys a new rifle, works up loads one grain at a time and discovers that at X grains, groups open right up. Later on, the load is put over a chronograph and it is discovered that the load is traveling 300fps slower than what should be the optimum pressure/velocity. The culprit is the bedding - as powder grains are increased, so does recoil torque to the bedding platform. If the bedding platform is unsound, groups will open up. Shooters using magnum powered cartridges are prone to this trap and often the load is 300 to 400fps below the optimum balance of velocity versus accuracy once the rifle is properly bedded." SourceThat does not mention the OP’s issue. I sincerely hope you find relief for your dementia or your addiction, soon, whichever it is. It’s truly sad to see. From the OP... "In my reloading experience I have seen velocity remain relatively unchanged with small powder increases but have never seen it drop like this. Has anyone else had this experience? What do you think caused it? Does this explain the drop in velocity described in the OP? I don't know enough to say yes. My post was only to share information related to what can result in slower velocities as powder is increased.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/16/20 03:51 AM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7841136
05/16/20 03:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603
Sneaky
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Nowhere was a DECREASE in velocity mentioned in the article. Up your meds, Dan.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: Sneaky]
#7841142
05/16/20 03:54 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Texas Dan
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Nowhere was a DECREASE in velocity mentioned in the article. Up your meds, Dan. Last chance... "Later on, the load is put over a chronograph and it is discovered that the load is traveling 300fps slower than what should be the optimum pressure/velocity.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/16/20 03:54 AM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7841171
05/16/20 04:43 AM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 29,603
Sneaky
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Slower than what should be equals an increase in powder charge and decrease in velocity? Again, that was not stated. In the article, they worked up a load and found it lacking. They said nothing about an increase in powder charge and a decrease in velocity.
You’re retarded.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: Sneaky]
#7841182
05/16/20 05:04 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 22,252
Texas Dan
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They said nothing about an increase in powder charge and a decrease in velocity.
You’re retarded. "In this case, the shooter buys a new rifle, works up loads one grain at a time and discovers that at X grains, groups open right up. Later on, the load is put over a chronograph and it is discovered that the load is traveling 300fps slower than what should be the optimum pressure/velocity." Again, I honestly don't know if this tip applies to the problem described in the OP. I'm sharing it only because it relates to a slowing in velocity with increasing levels of powder noted in the question asked in the OP.
Last edited by Texas Dan; 05/16/20 05:18 AM.
"Some people will never like you because your spirit irritates their demons."
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: Texas Dan]
#7841402
05/16/20 03:20 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 60,428
BOBO the Clown
kind of a big deal
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kind of a big deal
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They said nothing about an increase in powder charge and a decrease in velocity.
You’re retarded. "In this case, the shooter buys a new rifle, works up loads one grain at a time and discovers that at X grains, groups open right up. Later on, the load is put over a chronograph and it is discovered that the load is traveling 300fps slower than what should be the optimum pressure/velocity." Again, I honestly don't know if this tip applies to the problem described in the OP. I'm sharing it only because it relates to a slowing in velocity with increasing levels of powder noted in the question asked in the OP. Never mind you are just trolling
Last edited by BOBO the Clown; 05/16/20 03:24 PM.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7841441
05/16/20 04:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 41,164
J.G.
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Re: Velocity decreasing with more powder??
[Re: BigDad]
#7841708
05/16/20 09:15 PM
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ntxtrapper
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