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Who owns Texas wildlife? #7814809 04/22/20 03:37 AM
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I thought i remembered correctly that in Texas the wildlife is owned by the public, but governed by tpwd.
I can't find any info on that. Just kind of a curious question, and if someone could provide a link, that'd be great.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7814813 04/22/20 03:44 AM
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Citizens...managed by the state


Originally Posted by Sneaky
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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7814971 04/22/20 12:07 PM
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The state tells you what you can and can't do with wildlife so they must own them or at least think they do.

Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7814993 04/22/20 12:29 PM
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It’s held in trust by the state for the people


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815009 04/22/20 12:41 PM
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I always ruffle some feathers when this subject comes up.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815035 04/22/20 12:58 PM
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In all states the native wildlife belongs to all the citizens of the state until such time as they are legally taken by a hunter. And that is all native wildlife from butterflies to Bighorn Sheep. Exotics are normally classified as livestock unless they are totally free ranging on public land like the Oryx in NM and under those circumstances they also technically belong to the public. This was actually a ruling from the Supreme Court when USO took AZ to court about they way they allocate licenses to non-residents. USO tried to claim that since outfitting was a business then wildlife should fall under the commerce clause. The court ruled in favor of AZ stating that wildlife is held in public trust and public ownership by the citizens of the state and cannot be bought and sold as commerce. A hunting license does not guarantee you the animal, merely the opportunity to try for the animal.

Game depts are tasked with overseeing and managing the wildlife on behalf of the public but game depts don't own them any more than the state patrol does.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815058 04/22/20 01:19 PM
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In a very quick search, I couldn't find a link that directly states the fact that Bobo said above, but this editorial speaks to the fact https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2007/jan/atissue/

As others have said, this is a touchy subject because it directly challenges some long held practices that seem untouchable despite their likely contradiction with what should be. But despite those things, hopefully reminding ourselves of the fact that we own the wildlife can drive future decision making and management that means we get to own more!


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815088 04/22/20 01:48 PM
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this is an interesting topic that brought a curiosity thought to my mind regarding HF ranches that contain native animals ... who owns those animals? Would they be part of the same trust? What about imported genetics from other states but the species is native to TX? confused2 ... not trying to stir the pot, as I have no background or knowledge regarding HF places.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815097 04/22/20 01:52 PM
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Regardless of the fence I think ownership is the same. Even if you remove all native deer and bring in deer from somewhere else don’t you still have to abide by seasons and bag limits?


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815105 04/22/20 01:59 PM
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My understanding has always been, HF or LF, the State (the people, but managed by gov't) owns all native species. That is why there are such tight restrictions on transport of native game, and the hunting seasons/rules still apply, even when hunting under HF. As stated above, non-native species are regarded as livestock and the seasons/rules don't equally apply.

That is why it is incorrect for someone to reference wildlife as if they own them, i.e., my neighbor shot MY deer. Nope...

Last edited by Dalroo; 04/22/20 02:00 PM. Reason: fat fingers

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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: redchevy] #7815162 04/22/20 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Regardless of the fence I think ownership is the same. Even if you remove all native deer and bring in deer from somewhere else don’t you still have to abide by seasons and bag limits?


Yes, though they can get on a management program with the state, MLDP, and have greatly extended seasons and bag limits are based on population numbers and such.

In some other states a property that is high fenced then has to, at their cost, trap and transfer out all of the native deer, which belong to the people, before they can bring in their own deer, at their own cost. Different than putting up a high fence and then de facto claiming and keeping all of the public's deer.

Not, not, not expressing a stance on the issue, just making a point. In fact, one season I was guiding on a large ranch that the neighbor had high fenced and brought in some amazing genetics. He had an escapement problem on the fence line of my section of our ranch. I was a very successful guide that season! I was also low man on the totem pole and what do you know, the head guide had that section of the ranch the next year, but the escapement had been fixed and my hunters had already gotten them! I still neighbor that property, and we drive the fence drooling over the bucks.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: mickeyhft] #7815178 04/22/20 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by mickeyhft
In a very quick search, I couldn't find a link that directly states the fact that Bobo said above, but this editorial speaks to the fact https://tpwmagazine.com/archive/2007/jan/atissue/

As others have said, this is a touchy subject because it directly challenges some long held practices that seem untouchable despite their likely contradiction with what should be. But despite those things, hopefully reminding ourselves of the fact that we own the wildlife can drive future decision making and management that means we get to own more!



“The American colonies worked under English law until independence, a transition which voided the king’s role as trustee of communal property. The colonies thus lacked a specified trustee for governing natural resources until an 1842 Supreme Court ruling (Martin v. Waddell) that gave individual states public trustee status. And though Canada modeled much of its legal system after Great Britain, Canada, to”

https://nctc.fws.gov/courses/csp/cs...es/Overview_of_Public_Trust_Doctrine.pdf

And layman’s explanation

https://blogs.cornell.edu/publictrustpractice/what_is_pt/


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: Dalroo] #7815186 04/22/20 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dalroo
My understanding has always been, HF or LF, the State (the people, but managed by gov't) owns all native species. That is why there are such tight restrictions on transport of native game, and the hunting seasons/rules still apply, even when hunting under HF. As stated above, non-native species are regarded as livestock and the seasons/rules don't equally apply.

That is why it is incorrect for someone to reference wildlife as if they own them, i.e., my neighbor shot MY deer. Nope...


Correct but property rights truly governor legal public ability. Statues in Texas are property first, wildlife second out side of federal ESA rulings


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7815348 04/22/20 04:42 PM
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popcorn I feel a HF LF thread coming on. I kind of hate it cause they always end up with seemingly rational men acting like kids on a playground. Kind of like the virus response debate--both sides showing their lack of restraint. A good, healthy, civil discussion always has potential to be educational and have value but rarely happens on here when it comes to polarizing issues. popcorn


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: freerange] #7815360 04/22/20 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
popcorn I feel a HF LF thread coming on. I kind of hate it cause they always end up with seemingly rational men acting like kids on a playground. Kind of like the virus response debate--both sides showing their lack of restraint. A good, healthy, civil discussion always has potential to be educational and have value but rarely happens on here when it comes to polarizing issues. popcorn


No debate, legal is legal, if one doesn’t like it, then can be just like the hunters in other states that didn’t like hounds chasing bears and lions or baiting and get it banned. Everyone is with in their legal right to petition legislation to END hunting.

It’s pretty simple, no one will every change their mind on a forum. All they essentially do is just degrade fellow hunters for not standing at the same pulpit as them. So they should just go straight to legislative representatives and work their magic. Just like the anti’s do. Management by ballots is always better then science anyway..... just ask California and Colorado hunters



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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815510 04/22/20 06:31 PM
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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7815976 04/23/20 12:20 AM
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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: freerange] #7816007 04/23/20 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
popcorn I feel a HF LF thread coming on. I kind of hate it cause they always end up with seemingly rational men acting like kids on a playground. Kind of like the virus response debate--both sides showing their lack of restraint. A good, healthy, civil discussion always has potential to be educational and have value but rarely happens on here when it comes to polarizing issues. popcorn


I have done that alot in the past on this forum and others, in an emotionally charged conversation on the interwebs. And I think it comes down to three things-

1. You can't hear the inflection or tone of voice on the internet
2. You can't read facial expression on the internet
3. We sometimes forget that is a real human being you are talking to.

It's not the internet or the handle... there is a person over there and we will say things you might never tell a person in real life because you know it's wrong to treat people that way. And might also act in such a way you would never act in public or otherwise embarrass yourself.

Not cause you're hiding it is just the way it goes. It's like road rage. If it were two people walking down the street who had to see each others faces it might never boil over.

If you recognize this fact it changes the way you interact with people online.

I dread the day my kids learn to search for and find me on the internet.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: Bryan C. Heimann] #7816036 04/23/20 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by laid over
Originally Posted by freerange
popcorn I feel a HF LF thread coming on. I kind of hate it cause they always end up with seemingly rational men acting like kids on a playground. Kind of like the virus response debate--both sides showing their lack of restraint. A good, healthy, civil discussion always has potential to be educational and have value but rarely happens on here when it comes to polarizing issues. popcorn


I have done that alot in the past on this forum and others, in an emotionally charged conversation on the interwebs. And I think it comes down to three things-

1. You can't hear the inflection or tone of voice on the internet
2. You can't read facial expression on the internet
3. We sometimes forget that is a real human being you are talking to.

It's not the internet or the handle... there is a person over there and we will say things you might never tell a person in real life because you know it's wrong to treat people that way. And might also act in such a way you would never act in public or otherwise embarrass yourself.

Not cause you're hiding it is just the way it goes. It's like road rage. If it were two people walking down the street who had to see each others faces it might never boil over.

If you recognize this fact it changes the way you interact with people online.

I dread the day my kids learn to search for and find me on the internet.

cheers


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7816051 04/23/20 01:49 AM
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It I understand correctly, 'flora and fauna" are all held by the state.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7816053 04/23/20 01:50 AM
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The single most important factor YOU CANNOT CHANGE A MIND THAT CANNOT BE CHANGED. You just can’t.

Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7816058 04/23/20 01:54 AM
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I don't know. When I moved back to Texas, I came back to this forum looking for a cheap lease to tag out on deer. Over the last year I have learmed alot about deer and currently sit clear on the other side of the fence.

It hard to double down on your opinions after you have been presented with enough logic, and clearly were wrong.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: KWood_TSU] #7816696 04/23/20 05:39 PM
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Some of our resident Alabama poachers use this excuse to trespass and shoot game. Since the wildlife is owned (managed) by the State for the residents, they believe they have the right to come on to anyone's property. Great, then why do they insist on sneaking onto the property instead coming through the front gate? There is a reason Alabama ranks 52nd in education. I witness it almost every day.


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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: BOBO the Clown] #7818303 04/24/20 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Dalroo
My understanding has always been, HF or LF, the State (the people, but managed by gov't) owns all native species. That is why there are such tight restrictions on transport of native game, and the hunting seasons/rules still apply, even when hunting under HF. As stated above, non-native species are regarded as livestock and the seasons/rules don't equally apply.

That is why it is incorrect for someone to reference wildlife as if they own them, i.e., my neighbor shot MY deer. Nope...


Correct but property rights truly governor legal public ability. Statues in Texas are property first, wildlife second out side of federal ESA rulings


So in other words, if you shoot a deer near a fence and it runs onto your neighbor's property, you're totally at his/her mercy to give it to you, correct? Otherwise, they have the legal right to keep it for themselves since they own it as much as you do even though you may have shot it.

What about non-native game that gets out and onto your property? Is it treated the same way as livestock?

Last edited by Texas Dan; 04/24/20 09:25 PM.

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Re: Who owns Texas wildlife? [Re: Texas Dan] #7818365 04/24/20 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Texas Dan
Originally Posted by BOBO the Clown
Originally Posted by Dalroo
My understanding has always been, HF or LF, the State (the people, but managed by gov't) owns all native species. That is why there are such tight restrictions on transport of native game, and the hunting seasons/rules still apply, even when hunting under HF. As stated above, non-native species are regarded as livestock and the seasons/rules don't equally apply.

That is why it is incorrect for someone to reference wildlife as if they own them, i.e., my neighbor shot MY deer. Nope...


Correct but property rights truly governor legal public ability. Statues in Texas are property first, wildlife second out side of federal ESA rulings


So in other words, if you shoot a deer near a fence and it runs onto your neighbor's property, you're totally at his/her mercy to give it to you, correct? Otherwise, they have the legal right to keep it for themselves since they own it as much as you do even though you may have shot it.

What about non-native game that gets out and onto your property? Is it treated the same way as livestock?


He has no obligation to return it to you. It’s fertilizer if he chooses. I don’t think the Game warden can technically retrieve it unless it’s due to an active investigation.

No, non -native game fall solely to land owner discretion, unless it meets tag/identification/ownership requirements set forth under statue.

There is a big difference between non-game animals and livestock. Live stock will get you thrown in prison. non-game/exotics are citations and civil, assuming you haven’t committed class A Trespass in the process


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