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Coyotes and deer MY experiment #7801924 04/10/20 04:01 PM
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doggit Offline OP
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I posted this on page 3 of other coyote/deer post just thought some that are interested might miss it and want to read my experience.

This is what happened on my high fence place 3 yrs ago. We high fenced it 6 yrs ago and put down and buried 3 ft predator wire clipped to bottom of high fence and buried on the outside. In other words no digging under!. the place is 360 ac. and is old crop land that is mostly open. Have let it start growing up which is mostly mesquite and wesatch. We planted 240 acres in a native grass mix. Before high fence place was covered up in hogs. Now there are none, only on outside. And from game cameras on a gut pile I saw no coyotes on the place after I killed 5. 3 yrs ago we had a flood that washed out the water gap. I repaired it as soon as I could, but one day I was driving to house and saw coyote scat in the road. Went and checked the water gap and found a dig under. Fixed it, so no more problems. This was in May. From game cameras on gut pile and actual sighting I determined I had 3 coyotes on the place. I have lots of cottontails and hundreds of rats. I mean when I shred I see at least 100 or more. I thought 3 coyotes with all the rats and cottontails would be no problem. Well then came June/July. doe started fawning. I saw from cameras and actual sighting 12 fawns atleast, there could have been more. I have 4 feeders corn/protein that feed year round with game cameras on them. With 3 coyotes and plenty of other stuff to eat that year I did not see one fawn with spots with its mother at the feeders! I can say I had a 0% fawn survival. So needless to say they were exterminated. Now for the last couple of years I'm seeing lots of fawns, with this last year being exceptional. But also I have no coyotes. When they were in the ranch I also found a young buck in my hay field dead in a corner. Coyotes had eaten on it and I can only assume they cornered him and killed him. On another note I cant keep the bobcats out. I have seen them crawl up to the first big square about waist high, stick their head thru and crawl thru. I have found fawn bobcat kills I'm pretty sure because they were covered with grass and I put camera on it and bobcats were there next night. So now I call them and shoot. But I'm not loosing near as many fawns to cats as I did to just 3 coyotes. Hope this helps some wondering whether you should shoot the on sight or not. I guess it all depends on whether you are wanting to raise deer or coyotes!

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Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7802309 04/10/20 10:38 PM
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Good story.


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Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7802347 04/10/20 11:19 PM
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Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7802356 04/10/20 11:37 PM
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I'd say that was pretty good proof that coyotes should be killed when possible.

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7803142 04/11/20 10:29 PM
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up yep, shoot them all and you will never kill every one of them ...


"everyone that lives dies but not everyone who dies lived..."

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Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7803165 04/11/20 10:54 PM
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Good story, nicely explained.

For the last year I've had these two coyotes that come mostly at night past a camera I have at one end of my feed plot. They never show up on another camera 100 feet away near a feeder but they are always walking through the tall grass nearby and I know this is an area where the does stash their fawns because while shredding I have spooked up fawns during fawn season.

Last spring I also had a big boar hog who circled that area avoiding the feeder for the most part but making his way through that tall grass in wide circles. I really need to shoot those coyotes especially but it's going to take night hunting to get them. This is all within 150 feet of the house on the place.

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7803417 04/12/20 03:40 AM
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I’ve seen 6 coyotes in a group at a time on our place similarly sized and that probably wast a half of what was on the place, how do we have any fawns make it if only 3 killed your whole crop? Yes coyotes kill fawns but you probably some other underlying issues if they get all your fawns.


It's hell eatin em live
Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: redchevy] #7803712 04/12/20 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
I’ve seen 6 coyotes in a group at a time on our place similarly sized and that probably wast a half of what was on the place, how do we have any fawns make it if only 3 killed your whole crop? Yes coyotes kill fawns but you probably some other underlying issues if they get all your fawns.

redchevy, he stated that its 360ac HF and is mostly open. I would think that would answer your question.


Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7804153 04/12/20 10:18 PM
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Have a friend that has a large ranch in Brewster county just north of the Big Bend park and for years they have been hiring trappers because the yotes hurt the fawn crop. Hunted there 30 years ago and you could hear packs during the day all over the 50,000 acres. Since they trap it the deer herds are doing great, but lose some to cougars.

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: bp3] #7804178 04/12/20 10:34 PM
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bp3, was that the Pope ranch by chance? I actually think it was more like 100kish.


Keep your gratitude higher than your expectations. RWH
Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7804190 04/12/20 10:43 PM
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The main reason coyotes do not have a big effect on Deer population in South Texas is because of the amount of rats and rabbits that they raise. I dozed some mesquite and cactus a while back in S. T. It was amazing the amount of rats and rabbits and rattlesnakes that ran out of the cactus. I have a Friend that has a ranch between Cotulla and Encinal. I bought some Corsican type sheep from him. I could not believe he could raise them in that area. But it was because the coyotes had plenty of other stuff they could eat. Then a mountain lion came into the area and that was the end of that. Even here as long as coyotes have stuff to eat they are not that hard on deer and domestic animals. But once they get a taste of them that is all they look for. And in a seperate thread about feral cats. They are like ribeyes to a coyote. That is why we have very few here.













the

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: freerange] #7804401 04/13/20 01:43 AM
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Originally Posted by freerange
Originally Posted by redchevy
I’ve seen 6 coyotes in a group at a time on our place similarly sized and that probably wast a half of what was on the place, how do we have any fawns make it if only 3 killed your whole crop? Yes coyotes kill fawns but you probably some other underlying issues if they get all your fawns.

redchevy, he stated that its 360ac HF and is mostly open. I would think that would answer your question.


When I said mostly open I did not mean bare dirt farmland. As you can see in the pics there is plenty of cover to hide fawns in. These are from today.
I will shred by end of the month so there will be nice green native grass growing in May. Should be knee deep in June. the green grass in the 3rd pic got baled in October and it is deceptive in the pic but it is knee high. And in that 3rd pic you can see a big weesatch I pushed over with tractor and is growing on the ground, like half cutting, have them all over like that. Green area in 2nd pic on the right is about 30 acres I burnt in January. Coming up thick with native grass and sunflowers. Was going to spray sunflowers but figured Id shred end of August and should be great dove hunting. And should make good fawn cover. So as you can see there is cover for the deer/fawns. All I know is when the coyotes were in the "pen" I had no fawns I saw on game cameras or in person. Now that I have no coyotes I am seeing lots grow up. I don't think its a coincidence that 3 coyotes=no fawns and NO coyotes=lots. So if you have a small place and have coyotes and are seeing fawns, think of how many you might have with No coyotes. Sometimes I wish the place had more brush on it, but then I realize it is nice to be able to see the animals. It's definitely not a petting zoo though. Like to day I filled the feeders drove all over pasture, saw black buck and axis but not one whitetail. I do know and have seen them lay in the tall grass under a tree and they will lay their head down flat on the ground and let you drive right by like 30 ft away. If you up high you would never see them. I made some brush piles few years ago thinking deer could bed up against them in bad weather, which they did, but I also had some rattlesnake bit show up on camera. And I saw more than one bobcat run into them so I burnt them last year. I am fortunate to have buried the predator wire around the perimeter and do not have to deal with the constant digging under that lots of friends deal with. that would drive me crazy. For those against high fence that's fine and your opinion. However, in my situation with the place being about a mile and half from town I have lots of ranchettes (2,5,10 acres) on my North and south fenceline. On the east fence bare dirt cropland, couple hundred acres. And on west fence a 100ac resivoir (water). So several years ago when I bought it and let it start growing up, all the deer stayed on my place only to visit the ranchettes feeders during deer season. That is about the only time they ran them. So it was very frustrating making my boys pass up bucks only to have them disappear. We had a 150 class 22in 10 pt we had been watching for 2 years. My son was pissed he couldn't shoot it, but I put it at 4 yrs old. Then towards end of season I heard a shot one morning. Went to see what neighbor shot and yup you guessed it. That Feb we started on the high fence. Plus I wanted to raise a few exotics. Now the deer we see have a chance to grow old and to full potential. In fact we high fenced 6 years ago and have not shot a trophy buck yet only few culls. And the quality of deer we are seeing is crazy. From year round 20% protein, food plots, and letting them get past 2 or 3. August/September is like Xmas seeing the bucks on game camera. There are suprises every year. And the bonus is, now We get to enjoy the fruits of all the hardwork, Not the neighborhood meat hunters that run their feeders 2 months out of the year.


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Last edited by doggit; 04/13/20 01:51 AM.
Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7804476 04/13/20 03:48 AM
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Doggit not trying to be mean, but there is no good fawning cover in any of those pics.

I understand the grass grows in the late spring to get taller, but anytime you mow you are killing your chances of getting better cover. Stop mowing, let it grow, and let the woody stuff grow too. Get some good woody growth in there and let that mix with all the grasses and then you will start to have some fawning cover. Remember that edges are critical too. Edges of tall brush, edges of thick woody growth...edges allow fawns to dodge coyotes and duck into thick stuff. A row of grass, no matter how tall, allows coyotes to hunt too easily as all they need to do is cover the field quickly and find animals, esp in a HF setting.

Now, having said all that, assuming you took care of the coyote problem, this is all just talk. But, dawn cover works for bobcats, hawks, etc....

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7804618 04/13/20 01:25 PM
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You should do an annual update of your battle against the predators

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: Jimbo1] #7804711 04/13/20 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jimbo1
I'd say that was pretty good proof that coyotes should be killed when possible.


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Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7804731 04/13/20 02:50 PM
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Blackbuck Antelope baby they got last night. And I have a lot of cover.

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7805285 04/13/20 11:48 PM
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Aren’t blackbucks kind of known for dying?


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Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: freerange] #7805811 04/14/20 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by freerange
bp3, was that the Pope ranch by chance? I actually think it was more like 100kish.


I hunted that ranch back in the 80's on a 1 week mule deer hunt. Great ranch!


That old crackheaded commie (Bernie Sanders) has lost his damn mind.. in 1983
Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: redchevy] #7805852 04/14/20 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by redchevy
Aren’t blackbucks kind of known for dying?

Yes, most die from lead poisioning

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7809108 04/17/20 02:04 PM
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thanks for sharing

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7809779 04/17/20 11:12 PM
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I almost got kicked off a lease by the landowner because I shot a coyote. He told me they eat piglets and to leave them alone. He didn’t care if they are fawns

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7810135 04/18/20 06:02 AM
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When using a recorded call on my lease in Young County last 20 years. The #1 most successful call for me in the Spring for calling Coyotes has been a Fawn Bleat or Fawn in Distress call. No other call has come close to working better.

Re: Coyotes and deer MY experiment [Re: doggit] #7810221 04/18/20 12:52 PM
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We have no shortage of coyotes.......no trapping or poison.....just shoot when we see them and occasional designated night hog/coyote hunts. Our deer population continues to grow and mature........I believe they mainly eat rats, mice and hogs.....


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