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Change start of hunting season? #7752417 02/21/20 02:11 PM
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Ok, newbie here that wants to share a theory I’ve been preaching for the past 15+ years. After reading the “Just like back in the rut” thread, it made me think of my theory.
18 years ago, we moved into our home in Corpus. There was an orange tree and we picked oranges on Xmas day that year. After a few years, I noticed it was getting later & later in the year to pick them. Last year we picked oranges the day before Valentine’s Day because of possible freeze (again, in Corpus). I still have oranges that aren’t quite ready to pick this year. So my theory I have been debating is, it seems like what I call the Climalogical Clock has shifted. The weather pattern seems to be it stays warmer…longer, and the colder weather comes later, make sense? As I put it, seems like the weather calendar should start with December being the 1st month and January the last, again, does that make sense to anyone? As I stated, I base this on personal observations and my orange tree harvesting.
With that being said, and if this truly a pattern, seems to me this would greatly effect hunting season? I’ve discussed this with my hunting buddies, who have hunted much longer than I have, and they never thought of it that way, but they agree. Would it seem advantageous to anyone to move the start of hunting season to the 1st week of December and end middle of February? It seemed to me down here in South Texas, the rut was just getting real good about the time the season ended. Again, these are my very newbie observations. May it is different for other regions, just throwing this out for debate. Kel

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752447 02/21/20 02:46 PM
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Interesting idea. Would've certainly helped this season - the start of the season was pretty slow and with all the acorns dropping - there wasn't a lot of activity until January.

I do see a couple of potential problems though -

1. There'd be confusion among hunters on when seasons start/end.
2. Weather patterns may not be consistent enough to properly adjust the dates with enough time notify everyone ahead of time.
3. Perhaps how it is now is optimal for healthy populations. For example, I heard from the local processor that the number of deers processed was way down this year compared to last. Having a slower year due to weather patterns may help boost the population after a productive year like the 2018 season was.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752487 02/21/20 03:16 PM
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Not really sure about the other thread, but the Rut in Bosque county has remained the same for the past 20 years...Starts around the second weekend of Nov and is Full Thanksgiving weekend..Kinda spills in to the first week of Dec...Only Change I would like to see would maybe be open it Mid Nov and end Mid Jan and cut out the bs Doe and Spike season...We are MLD and can hunt till last weekend of Feb but we shut it off first weekend in Feb...
Does by then are showing they are preggo and no one wants to clean a doe that has a 5lb fetus in it, and about 50% of our bucks have dropped their horns....

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752490 02/21/20 03:19 PM
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Deer movement may be affected by weather but their physiology is based on other factors. For example- bucks dropping their antlers. When I was on a LAMPS lease here in east Texas and hunted does until the end of February, we had to be very careful that the doe we just shot was not a buck that had already dropped his antlers. Also, rut is based on moon phase at a particular time of the year- I know that a weather change can seem to trigger it but any kind of stress can affect something like that.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752493 02/21/20 03:20 PM
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I don't buy into your theory at all. I have no doubt that you perceive that the weather patterns are shifting, but perception is just that. Perception. In reality, I'd be willing to bet that if you did an exhaustive search, laid out a spreadsheet with temps and dates for the last 20 years, you would not see an appreciable change.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752495 02/21/20 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 68blackbird
Ok, newbie here that wants to share a theory I’ve been preaching for the past 15+ years. After reading the “Just like back in the rut” thread, it made me think of my theory.
18 years ago, we moved into our home in Corpus. There was an orange tree and we picked oranges on Xmas day that year. After a few years, I noticed it was getting later & later in the year to pick them. Last year we picked oranges the day before Valentine’s Day because of possible freeze (again, in Corpus). I still have oranges that aren’t quite ready to pick this year. So my theory I have been debating is, it seems like what I call the Climalogical Clock has shifted. The weather pattern seems to be it stays warmer…longer, and the colder weather comes later, make sense? As I put it, seems like the weather calendar should start with December being the 1st month and January the last, again, does that make sense to anyone? As I stated, I base this on personal observations and my orange tree harvesting.
With that being said, and if this truly a pattern, seems to me this would greatly effect hunting season? I’ve discussed this with my hunting buddies, who have hunted much longer than I have, and they never thought of it that way, but they agree. Would it seem advantageous to anyone to move the start of hunting season to the 1st week of December and end middle of February? It seemed to me down here in South Texas, the rut was just getting real good about the time the season ended. Again, these are my very newbie observations. May it is different for other regions, just throwing this out for debate. Kel


No, STX rut has always been latter then the rest of the state in most parts, in some parts on the eastern edge it’s actually the first rut of the state in Oct

Seasons are based off a stain ability harvest model. States with lower densities don’t have rifle rut hunts or have a short firearm season.

Texas has an extended season into almost March if they meet certain management criteria. Texas is so geographically diverse that program is a Must IMO


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752647 02/21/20 06:03 PM
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Yep weather is tricky and helps but the solar/ lunar times are what seem to drive the rut. I've always gotten my best deer on the week of the full moon in October or November in Central Texas and in South Texas the week of the full moon in December or January. After looking at the times I plan my trips that way. This just based on about 24 years of observation though.

Last edited by hook_n_line; 02/21/20 06:04 PM.

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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752746 02/21/20 07:35 PM
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As the climate changes, and continues to change, we will experience an increasing number extreme weather patterns. I believe that these changes can have an affect on the breeding pattern. I've noticed more late born fawns in the last few years than the previous 10 years, and I am leaning towards an opinion that this may be due, in part, to these changing environmental conditions.

I believe it was Dr. Ian Malcolm who said "Nature will always find a way"

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752778 02/21/20 08:14 PM
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Ive sat a lot of opening weekends in workout shorts and a t-shirt sweating my azz off. This year was in the 50's if I recall correctly. Many things change year to year, I don't believe this theory is accurate over time.


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752791 02/21/20 08:25 PM
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I posted this exact observation a while back in another thread. I've noticed the same thing as the OP....seasonal temp changes have moved a couple weeks later in the year compared to 30 years ago. When I was a kid it was never as hot in September dove hunting as it is now, and it always seemed colder hunting in November. Now it seems the coldest days of the year are usually in February. March is still chilly, but when I was a kid we were usually swimming during Spring Break.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752794 02/21/20 08:33 PM
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If anything, the rut in Mills county has been earlier than usual the last few years.


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7752811 02/21/20 08:51 PM
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That means we would be hunting a lot of bucks without antlers because a lot start to shed in February.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: kdkane1971] #7752812 02/21/20 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kdkane1971
As the climate changes, and continues to change, we will experience an increasing number extreme weather patterns. I believe that these changes can have an affect on the breeding pattern. I've noticed more late born fawns in the last few years than the previous 10 years, and I am leaning towards an opinion that this may be due, in part, to these changing environmental conditions.

I believe it was Dr. Ian Malcolm who said "Nature will always find a way"


We see more late born fawns on one property we hunt but we see more deer (more does) than we do on other places. I still see a few bucks that seem like they are chasing but its because those does didn't get bred the first part of the rut. We have 2 older does that stay by the house and they seem to always get bred later than the rest. The doe to buck ratio on that place is 6 or 8 to 1 (3000 acres owner doesn't believe in taking does). They don't have enough time to breed all the does so it seems like a long rut there. It could go from September to February some years. Of course there is a peak but there is always a trickle up and a trickle down but still have chasing going on. The more does and less bucks the longer the rut seems. Funny thing is its only 12 miles west of our primary hunting place where it seems like you could miss the rut if you blink, but the ratio is 1 or 2 does to 1 buck. (managed that way)


Sometimes it's hard being me! But somebody has to do it.
Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: hook_n_line] #7752814 02/21/20 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by hook_n_line
Originally Posted by kdkane1971
As the climate changes, and continues to change, we will experience an increasing number extreme weather patterns. I believe that these changes can have an affect on the breeding pattern. I've noticed more late born fawns in the last few years than the previous 10 years, and I am leaning towards an opinion that this may be due, in part, to these changing environmental conditions.

I believe it was Dr. Ian Malcolm who said "Nature will always find a way"


We see more late born fawns on one property we hunt but we see more deer (more does) than we do on other places. I still see a few bucks that seem like they are chasing but its because those does didn't get bred the first part of the rut. We have 2 older does that stay by the house and they seem to always get bred later than the rest. The doe to buck ratio on that place is 6 or 8 to 1 (3000 acres owner doesn't believe in taking does). They don't have enough time to breed all the does so it seems like a long rut there. It could go from September to February some years. Of course there is a peak but there is always a trickle up and a trickle down but still have chasing going on. The more does and less bucks the longer the rut seems. Funny thing is its only 12 miles west of our primary hunting place where it seems like you could miss the rut if you blink, but the ratio is 1 or 2 does to 1 buck. (managed that way)


You should send your landowner some nice literature on ratios with your next cheque.


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: Herbie Hancock] #7752818 02/21/20 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Herbie Hancock
Originally Posted by hook_n_line
Originally Posted by kdkane1971
As the climate changes, and continues to change, we will experience an increasing number extreme weather patterns. I believe that these changes can have an affect on the breeding pattern. I've noticed more late born fawns in the last few years than the previous 10 years, and I am leaning towards an opinion that this may be due, in part, to these changing environmental conditions.

I believe it was Dr. Ian Malcolm who said "Nature will always find a way"


We see more late born fawns on one property we hunt but we see more deer (more does) than we do on other places. I still see a few bucks that seem like they are chasing but its because those does didn't get bred the first part of the rut. We have 2 older does that stay by the house and they seem to always get bred later than the rest. The doe to buck ratio on that place is 6 or 8 to 1 (3000 acres owner doesn't believe in taking does). They don't have enough time to breed all the does so it seems like a long rut there. It could go from September to February some years. Of course there is a peak but there is always a trickle up and a trickle down but still have chasing going on. The more does and less bucks the longer the rut seems. Funny thing is its only 12 miles west of our primary hunting place where it seems like you could miss the rut if you blink, but the ratio is 1 or 2 does to 1 buck. (managed that way)


You should send your landowner some nice literature on ratios with your next cheque.


I've included pictures. This is one of three shooting lanes Only 2 bucks here and a few other does out of view to the left.

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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7753072 02/22/20 01:11 AM
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/youre-...iac-sign-isnt-what-you-think-11582295400

Basically it says the earth's wobble, as is goes through it's orbit, has changed and things, and over the years things (dates) have shifted. As outrageous as that sounds, to me it is just as plausible, or more so, than climate change.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7753098 02/22/20 01:45 AM
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There would be a lot more big mule deer killed if the season started the week of Christmas.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7753229 02/22/20 04:23 AM
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Having a minor in wildlife biology and studies in all sciences, botany, chemistry, physics, etc, I don't want to totally discount your theory. However, there are cyclical factors including hormonal, regional weather, change in land management, as well as pressure from predators an human activity that effect animal and plant life. We have to keep in perspective the limited time in the life of the universe/earth that humans have been living/studying, and keeping records of these events. Therefor our broad, definitive conclusions on these matters are speculations at best.

All that to say, why do we even have seasons if we have bag limits. If you kill (harvest) your annually alloted 3 to 5 deer in February or May, why is that not allowed but you can kill them October - January? Why can we kill 5 ducks a day for like 60 plus days (300 plus ducks) but we get a fine for killing six on opening day yet that's the only day we'll hunt waterfowl that year?


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7753233 02/22/20 04:29 AM
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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: LakeForkLodge] #7753254 02/22/20 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by LakeForkLodge


All that to say, why do we even have seasons if we have bag limits. If you kill (harvest) your annually alloted 3 to 5 deer in February or May, why is that not allowed but you can kill them October - January?


That one is easy to answer...you don't want to be killing does who have fawns that are too young to survive on their own. The survival ratio of fawns would plummet if you could kill does in May, June, July.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: DocHorton] #7753453 02/22/20 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DocHorton
Originally Posted by LakeForkLodge


All that to say, why do we even have seasons if we have bag limits. If you kill (harvest) your annually alloted 3 to 5 deer in February or May, why is that not allowed but you can kill them October - January?


That one is easy to answer...you don't want to be killing does who have fawns that are too young to survive on their own. The survival ratio of fawns would plummet if you could kill does in May, June, July.


Yours is an easy one as well. If you kill that same doe in January, the chance of her fawn surviving is zero.


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7753481 02/22/20 04:03 PM
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Why do people always correlate hunting season with cold weather?

Deer season in other states start in July and August and antelope starts in August


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: txtrophy85] #7753583 02/22/20 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Why do people always correlate hunting season with cold weather?

Deer season in other states start in July and August and antelope starts in August

Most mammals where it gets cold or should I say there is a real winter will mate so that their babies are born in the spring when resources are plentiful. The fact most mate when its cold means activity specifically daytime activity is higher. Also many animals have thicker coats in winter and tend to move more in daylight hours when its not hot outside.


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Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: 68blackbird] #7753707 02/22/20 09:39 PM
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Are you taking into account the food source? Deer harvested earlier in he season put less of a strain on the available food.

Re: Change start of hunting season? [Re: SapperTitan] #7753730 02/22/20 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SapperTitan
Originally Posted by txtrophy85
Why do people always correlate hunting season with cold weather?

Deer season in other states start in July and August and antelope starts in August

Most mammals where it gets cold or should I say there is a real winter will mate so that their babies are born in the spring when resources are plentiful. The fact most mate when its cold means activity specifically daytime activity is higher. Also many animals have thicker coats in winter and tend to move more in daylight hours when its not hot outside.


Elk mate in September. , Bear mate in spring, Deer along the Texas coast mate in October. Deer in Florida mate in July I’m told

I don’t know what you mean by “most mammals “ ?



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