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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746452
02/15/20 12:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,137
jeepman3366
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,137 |
Always a Bill of Sale with ID, after ATF shows up at door because a AR ended up in Mexico at a shoot out.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746460
02/15/20 12:36 AM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,143
glens
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,143 |
I've only sold a couple and anyone I sell to copy of CHL is the only way mine walks. Only CHL License or NO!
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746492
02/15/20 01:23 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,227
Marc K
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,227 |
I no longer have any guns except for some .22lr rifles and a couple of guns that I talk about on here. I sold all but these because I just don't need so many guns anymore.
I got a signed Bill of Sale for each of them and had my signature notarized and therefore a recorded date for each document. No, I did not record the buyer's driver's license number because I don't have to - I just glanced at them to be sure that it was a Texas license. I also asked each buyer if they were legal to buy my gun and they seemed honest and answered "yes." If one of my old guns shows up at a crime scene, I have proof that I sold it long before the crime was committed.
However, I probably should try harder to change my records to show when buyers brought back a gun for a refund because they were unhappy with the transaction.
Marc
Last edited by Marc K; 02/15/20 01:25 AM.
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746516
02/15/20 01:40 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,088
jakebunch
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,088 |
Several years ago I sold a hand gun at a gun show. About a year later I was contacted by an ATF agent and he was inquiring about the gun. Told him I sold it and when he asked me if I knew the person or their name I had to reply no as I did not get any ID information. He advised me that gun had been used in an armed robbery and they were tracing the ownership. I was the last registered owner. He had been nice to that point and then he got to be all business and stated very clearly that I needed to get ID information on anyone that I sold a gun to in the future. And, I have.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: jakebunch]
#7746567
02/15/20 02:36 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,227
Marc K
Veteran Tracker
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Veteran Tracker
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,227 |
.............................. He had been nice to that point and then he got to be all business and stated very clearly that I needed to get ID information on anyone that I sold a gun to in the future. ................ If he was right in saying that you legally "needed" to get ID info, you would have left in cuffs. The ATF guy wasn't quoting a law, he was stating what he would prefer that you do. With private gun sales in Texas, we are ALL obliged to follow the laws plus common sense - added to our gut level instincts. If it doesn't smell right - don't do it.
A Democracy is when two wolves and a lamb vote on the dinner menu. That is why this country was specifically not designed as a Democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: Marc K]
#7746571
02/15/20 02:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,088
jakebunch
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,088 |
.............................. He had been nice to that point and then he got to be all business and stated very clearly that I needed to get ID information on anyone that I sold a gun to in the future. ................ If he was right in saying that you legally "needed" to get ID info, you would have left in cuffs. The ATF guy wasn't quoting a law, he was stating what he would prefer that you do. With private gun sales in Texas, we are ALL obliged to follow the laws plus common sense - added to our gut level instincts. If it doesn't smell right - don't do it. Correct.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746573
02/15/20 02:43 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,106
Espy
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,106 |
I have only sold 2 guns both two friends. Shoot If ever sell another gun I am thinking about collecting some DNA.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746579
02/15/20 02:47 AM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830 |
I follow what the law requires. There is NO registration in Texas.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746590
02/15/20 02:59 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,941
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,941 |
No digs at anyone that does, but what is purpose of seeing Drivers license or LTC or requiring bill of sale when doing a private/non dealer sale to another individual?
Thanks for explaining. If I don't know the individual or they are not someone I am at least familiar with, I require a copy of driver's license number or other identification. I have an 03 Curio and Relics FFL so if the firearm is a curio and relic I have to have that information anyway for my bound book even though there is no paperwork required by the buyer. When a stranger to me is unwilling to provide that information, I see it as a red flag. I sold a rifle to another forum member on THF a few years ago. I met him in a parking lot and it was not someone I was familiar with, so I did get the copy of his driver's license. Some time later I was contacted by ATF doing a reverse trace on that very rifle. I got the agent's name and told them I would call them back. I looked up the Dallas office, called and asked for that person to make sure it was who they said they were. They would not give me any details other than involved in criminal activity. I was able to provide the buyer's name and driver's license to the ATF taking me out off the loop entirely. I do not want any rifle involved in something criminal ending with me during a reverse trace.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746591
02/15/20 02:59 AM
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Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055
HWY_MAN
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 31,055 |
I don't sell guns but I've bought quite a few just here on the forum. Never showed an ID to anybody.
Yes! A Weatherby does kill them deader.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746649
02/15/20 03:42 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,067
Okiedog
Pro Tracker
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Pro Tracker
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,067 |
Only follow the law. Buyer over 21. Buyer and seller are residents of same state. No knowledge of buyer being a felon.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746660
02/15/20 03:53 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,287
scalebuster
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 6,287 |
I would not show ID or sign any paperwork to buy a gun from any individual. When I sell a gun I deal in cash or trade only and would never think of signing paperwork. It’s no different than selling a lawnmower. Don’t complicate things. If they are over 18 don’t worry about it.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#7746682
02/15/20 04:25 AM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,909
leswad
Extreme Tracker
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Extreme Tracker
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,909 |
I follow what the law requires. There is NO registration in Texas.
FJB
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746685
02/15/20 04:28 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,763
Tin Head
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,763 |
how do you protect yourself from buying a stolen gun?
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746689
02/15/20 04:36 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,847
DannyB
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 10,847 |
How does this ID work for you?
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746718
02/15/20 08:54 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420
RedRanger
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 12,420 |
I wouldn't show my ID to an individual or someone I didn't know. If I was buying a gun I guess I would only buy it from licensed dealer.
Last gun I bought from an individual was many years ago was friend of a friend who was hurting for money, but that was probably 30 years ago.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: Tin Head]
#7746796
02/15/20 02:03 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830 |
how do you protect yourself from buying a stolen gun? How does a BoS or checking ID inform you on whether the gun is stolen or not? Texas does not maintain a "stolen gun database" that consumers have access to.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7746814
02/15/20 02:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,759
snake oil
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 7,759 |
Asking for ID is BS and not every legal to buy individual has a LTC.
"You may all go to hell and I will go to Texas".
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: ntxtrapper]
#7746868
02/15/20 03:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,928
unclebubba
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,928 |
As the buyer, if the gun is found to be reported stolen, I want to be able to shoe the police a bill of sale showing that I purchased it. As a seller, the law requires that you do not sell the gun to someone who is not legally allowed to own it. If I see an LTC, I KNOW that they can own it. Someone in possession of a LTC doesn't guarantee they can legally possess a firearm. Most people who have them suspended or revoked, don't surrender the actual card back to DPS as they are required to. OK, if I see an LTC, I can be 99.9% sure that they can legally own it.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: jakebunch]
#7746902
02/15/20 04:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830 |
...and stated very clearly that I needed to get ID information on anyone that I sold a gun to in the future. And, I have. Wrong, not required in Texas. Next time tell them to show you that statement in writing!
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: Mike W]
#7746927
02/15/20 04:55 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,941
Sniper John
gumshoe
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gumshoe
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 20,941 |
Peace of mind that hopefully you're not selling to someone who should not have a firearm.
The other part is a paper trail. Bingo. I had an experience several years ago that could have gotten ugly if I did not have all the buyers info on a pistol I sold. How could it have gotten ugly? Pistol was found in a less than savory home, where multiple felonies were being committed, authorities call me because I was the "registered owner". Up until that day, I did not know there was any kind of registry. You were not the "registered owner". When a firearm is picked up by law enforcement related to criminal activity often part of the procedure is to do a reverse trace on the firearm. They contact the manufacturer or importer with the serial number to find out who the firearm was sold/shipped to, then they contact the FFL to get the information of who it was sold to, then contact the buyer, and so on until the trail stops. Likely how many stolen firearms are discovered. When an FFL ceases business, they are required to turn those bound books into the ATF. If you bought a firearm from an FFL, the serial number of that firearm can be reverse traced to you forever.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: The Dude Abides]
#7746942
02/15/20 05:11 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 632
Tim9880
Tracker
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Tracker
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 632 |
...and stated very clearly that I needed to get ID information on anyone that I sold a gun to in the future. And, I have. Wrong, not required in Texas. Next time tell them to show you that statement in writing! He is probably referring to federal law, that states it is legal to sell a firearm to a resident of your state. Out of state transfers have to go through an ffl. If you don't ask to see an ID, and dont know the person, how do you know they didnt come from another state? Not saying I agree, but sounds like a CYA recommendation from the agent.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: Tim9880]
#7747033
02/15/20 07:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830
The Dude Abides
THF Trophy Hunter
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THF Trophy Hunter
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 9,830 |
...and stated very clearly that I needed to get ID information on anyone that I sold a gun to in the future. And, I have. Wrong, not required in Texas. Next time tell them to show you that statement in writing! He is probably referring to federal law, that states it is legal to sell a firearm to a resident of your state. Out of state transfers have to go through an ffl. If you don't ask to see an ID, and dont know the person, how do you know they didnt come from another state? Not saying I agree, but sounds like a CYA recommendation from the agent. Call it whatever you want. Again, showing ID for FTF private sale is NOT required by law.
I am still looking for the perfect apron, one with reinforced knee areas would be perfect.
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7747095
02/15/20 09:48 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,496
Halfadozen
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,496 |
No digs at anyone that does, but what is purpose of seeing Drivers license or LTC or requiring bill of sale when doing a private/non dealer sale to another individual?
Thanks for explaining. I require a DL and phone number sent to me prior and verified on transfer. Also have a bill of sale that includes language that buyer attests to legally owning a firearm and includes type of firearm and serial number. I keep the signed bill of sale in my safe.
Freedom is a fragile thing ...Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again. -- Ronald Reagan
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Re: Info asked by seller when selling gun
[Re: tskin]
#7747097
02/15/20 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796
dogcatcher
THF Celebrity
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THF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 110,796 |
I have only bought a few guns off of all of the forums I am on. I pretty well already knew everything I needed to know about the seller I needed to know. First I would not buy any gun from a seller that only posts in the classifieds. Weather they admit it or not, in my opinion some of them would qualify as a dealer under the rules of ATF, my opinion that could be buying another problem that would rather not deal with.
Combat Infantryman, the ultimate hunter where the prey shoots back. _____________"Illegitimus non carborundum est"_______________
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