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Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX #7736624 02/03/20 08:48 PM
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Jeff in TX Offline OP
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I was flipping channels last night during the super bowl. I was on one of the hunting channels. I thought it was a deer hunting program. Instead, they were at a ranch where they genetically grow monster whitetails. Some of these were so big with so many points I'm not sure how you would score them or how the deer holds up his head.

Anyhow, I missed the first part, but they were talking about Texas cracking down on the whitetail breeders/growers but I had missed the details. Instead they started talking about Fallow deer being the next big thing for genetically altered deer. They were saying the state isn't bothering Fallow deer breeders/growers and they're really starting to focus on growing monster Fallow deer. They showed a 3-year Fallow deer which they said is a world record. The kicker is, it didn't even look like a fallow deer. Looked like a set of moose horns on a deer.

Anyhow, my question is what are restrictions or issues Whitetail breeders/growers are facing.


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7736742 02/03/20 10:53 PM
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I am not in the business but I would imagine number one is CWD. And the second is market for the product.

Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737435 02/04/20 05:42 PM
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I think there are plenty of ranches and game ranches that try to do some genetic selection through breeding, but a lot of them spend more on nutrition and quality management of their herds to achieve the results you see. Some of the best managed ranches in Texas produce fantastic deer without pen breeding or genetic manipulation, but rather careful management of their herds for optimum numbers, great nutrition programs and careful selection of which animals to hunt (i.e. mature bucks selected for antler characteristics). I have read a lot about government crackdown on WT deer breeders (different than a game ranch) because of CWD concerns, as Don points out.


"Who Dares, Wins"
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Exiled] #7737445 02/04/20 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Exiled
I think there are plenty of ranches and game ranches that try to do some genetic selection through breeding, but a lot of them spend more on nutrition and quality management of their herds to achieve the results you see. Some of the best managed ranches in Texas produce fantastic deer without pen breeding or genetic manipulation, but rather careful management of their herds for optimum numbers, great nutrition programs and careful selection of which animals to hunt (i.e. mature bucks selected for antler characteristics). I have read a lot about government crackdown on WT deer breeders (different than a game ranch) because of CWD concerns, as Don points out.


Will other deer breeds such as fallow, axis, sika fall victim to CWD?


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737496 02/04/20 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
I was flipping channels last night during the super bowl. I was on one of the hunting channels. I thought it was a deer hunting program. Instead, they were at a ranch where they genetically grow monster whitetails. Some of these were so big with so many points I'm not sure how you would score them or how the deer holds up his head.

Anyhow, I missed the first part, but they were talking about Texas cracking down on the whitetail breeders/growers but I had missed the details. Instead they started talking about Fallow deer being the next big thing for genetically altered deer. They were saying the state isn't bothering Fallow deer breeders/growers and they're really starting to focus on growing monster Fallow deer. They showed a 3-year Fallow deer which they said is a world record. The kicker is, it didn't even look like a fallow deer. Looked like a set of moose horns on a deer.

Anyhow, my question is what are restrictions or issues Whitetail breeders/growers are facing.


The show is Deer and Wildlife Stories with Kieth Warren. They usually travel the country highlighting different breeders of primarily deer and elk. The ranch he was on in that episode is also breeding fallow, they stated because there is much less bureaucracy involved in raising them. Not sure they are cracking down on deer breeders any more than they have in the past its just a matter of fulfilling all the requirements that are already in place. Unfortunately I'm not aware of all the restriction/requirements in place at this time I do have friends who got out of the business because of all the paperwork etc involved.

Hopefully some of our members can better answer this question.

Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Txhunter65] #7737499 02/04/20 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Txhunter65
Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
I was flipping channels last night during the super bowl. I was on one of the hunting channels. I thought it was a deer hunting program. Instead, they were at a ranch where they genetically grow monster whitetails. Some of these were so big with so many points I'm not sure how you would score them or how the deer holds up his head.

Anyhow, I missed the first part, but they were talking about Texas cracking down on the whitetail breeders/growers but I had missed the details. Instead they started talking about Fallow deer being the next big thing for genetically altered deer. They were saying the state isn't bothering Fallow deer breeders/growers and they're really starting to focus on growing monster Fallow deer. They showed a 3-year Fallow deer which they said is a world record. The kicker is, it didn't even look like a fallow deer. Looked like a set of moose horns on a deer.

Anyhow, my question is what are restrictions or issues Whitetail breeders/growers are facing.


The show is Deer and Wildlife Stories with Kieth Warren. They usually travel the country highlighting different breeders of primarily deer and elk. The ranch he was on in that episode is also breeding fallow, they stated because there is much less bureaucracy involved in raising them. Not sure they are cracking down on deer breeders any more than they have in the past its just a matter of fulfilling all the requirements that are already in place. Unfortunately I'm not aware of all the restriction/requirements in place at this time I do have friends who got out of the business because of all the paperwork etc involved.

Hopefully some of our members can better answer this question.


Thanks for the name of the show. Like I said I came in during the middle of the show so I missed the front end. The bureaucracy part on WT's is what I'm trying to figure out.

Again thanks and hopefully someone who understands this will chime in.


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737569 02/04/20 08:20 PM
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Elk, mule deer and moose have all tested positive for CWD up here in wild herds.
Unfortunately for you all CWD is going to affect your captive deer breeding programs I fear.

Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737574 02/04/20 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
Originally Posted by Txhunter65
Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
I was flipping channels last night during the super bowl. I was on one of the hunting channels. I thought it was a deer hunting program. Instead, they were at a ranch where they genetically grow monster whitetails. Some of these were so big with so many points I'm not sure how you would score them or how the deer holds up his head.

Anyhow, I missed the first part, but they were talking about Texas cracking down on the whitetail breeders/growers but I had missed the details. Instead they started talking about Fallow deer being the next big thing for genetically altered deer. They were saying the state isn't bothering Fallow deer breeders/growers and they're really starting to focus on growing monster Fallow deer. They showed a 3-year Fallow deer which they said is a world record. The kicker is, it didn't even look like a fallow deer. Looked like a set of moose horns on a deer.

Anyhow, my question is what are restrictions or issues Whitetail breeders/growers are facing.


The show is Deer and Wildlife Stories with Kieth Warren. They usually travel the country highlighting different breeders of primarily deer and elk. The ranch he was on in that episode is also breeding fallow, they stated because there is much less bureaucracy involved in raising them. Not sure they are cracking down on deer breeders any more than they have in the past its just a matter of fulfilling all the requirements that are already in place. Unfortunately I'm not aware of all the restriction/requirements in place at this time I do have friends who got out of the business because of all the paperwork etc involved.

Hopefully some of our members can better answer this question.


Thanks for the name of the show. Like I said I came in during the middle of the show so I missed the front end. The bureaucracy part on WT's is what I'm trying to figure out.

Again thanks and hopefully someone who understands this will chime in.

I would take anything Keith Warren says with a grain of salt. You need hip waders to get through all of his bs


Originally Posted by txhuntingguide
If I choose to hunt in a coon tail hat, a pink tootoo and hip waders that is my fine...
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737615 02/04/20 09:27 PM
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The kicker is if CWD is the cause for raising/breeding WT's one would reason Fallow or any other deer would face the same issues. I appreciate everyone's input but I still can't figure the issues that Texas is putting on WT breeders? Maybe it is CWD but I think there's more to it which is what I'm trying to figure out.


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737631 02/04/20 09:49 PM
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I've gotten the answer. My neighbor has a HF operation and raises and breeds monster size WT's. It's all focused around CWD. The state requires testing of all deer every year. You have to have a permit to move or transport a WT. The ranch you're transporting to all of their breeder deer have to be tested before the new deer can be dropped off. He said it's just a major pain and one reason he's getting out of the business.

Texas hasn't put those regulations on exotics...yet! He said it's coming as there's too much money for the state in fees, but a lack of agents to enforce. One reason the state is looking to add a lot of agents and game biologist.

Sounds like the world of exotics will get interesting in the years to come.


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7737858 02/05/20 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
The kicker is if CWD is the cause for raising/breeding WT's one would reason Fallow or any other deer would face the same issues. I appreciate everyone's input but I still can't figure the issues that Texas is putting on WT breeders? Maybe it is CWD but I think there's more to it which is what I'm trying to figure out.

Fallow deer have shown the most resistance to CWD of all tested deer. They have been infected by it in the lab, but it takes extreme manipulation to accomplish, so of all the desirable trophy deer species they are the lowest risk.


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Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7738160 02/05/20 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
I've gotten the answer. My neighbor has a HF operation and raises and breeds monster size WT's. It's all focused around CWD. The state requires testing of all deer every year. You have to have a permit to move or transport a WT. The ranch you're transporting to all of their breeder deer have to be tested before the new deer can be dropped off. He said it's just a major pain and one reason he's getting out of the business.

Texas hasn't put those regulations on exotics...yet! He said it's coming as there's too much money for the state in fees, but a lack of agents to enforce. One reason the state is looking to add a lot of agents and game biologist.

Sounds like the world of exotics will get interesting in the years to come.


The information you were given is not correct
It's all focused around CWD. The state requires testing of all deer every year.[color:#3333FF] We are only required to test a percentage of the deer that die in the deer pens( need to stay above 80%) You have to have a permit to move or transport a WT. The ranch you're transporting to all of their breeder deer have to be tested before the new deer can be dropped off.[color:#3333FF] We are not required to test any of the deer on the site before a new deer can be introduced[/color]. He said it's just a major pain and one reason he's getting out of the business. There is a lot of paper work and documentation that must be maintained but if you keep up with it as you do thing it is not as bad as it seems its just time consuming

Texas hasn't put those regulations on exotics...yet! There is regulations on Elk and Sitka deer He said it's coming as there's too much money for the state in fees, but a lack of agents to enforce. One reason the state is looking to add a lot of agents and game biologist.

Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7738235 02/05/20 03:12 PM
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I do not believe there is a test for live animals yet, that is why you have all the regs about CWD and transporting WT.

Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7738241 02/05/20 03:23 PM
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Not a fan of the whole concept of "manipulating" game animals for any reason. I'd rather have a natural fork horn that any one of those monstrosities they are trying to create. Never could grasp the fascination with the amount of exposed bone on a buck's head except for the amount that nature intended him to have. The overemphasis on antlers will not bode well on hunting in the future. If that is all the non-hunting public thinks you are after then they can and will pass laws to curtail that. It has been done in other states and it can be done here as well. Feel free to disagree if you want to but I saw bear hunting in the spring and with dogs as well as most trapping outlawed in my native CO.


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Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: QMC SW/EXW] #7738348 02/05/20 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by QMC SW/EXW
Not a fan of the whole concept of "manipulating" game animals for any reason. I'd rather have a natural fork horn that any one of those monstrosities they are trying to create. Never could grasp the fascination with the amount of exposed bone on a buck's head except for the amount that nature intended him to have. The overemphasis on antlers will not bode well on hunting in the future. If that is all the non-hunting public thinks you are after then they can and will pass laws to curtail that. It has been done in other states and it can be done here as well. Feel free to disagree if you want to but I saw bear hunting in the spring and with dogs as well as most trapping outlawed in my native CO.

This ^^^^^^ I agree 110%


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Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Deer Hound] #7738802 02/06/20 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Deer Hound
Originally Posted by Jeff in TX
I've gotten the answer. My neighbor has a HF operation and raises and breeds monster size WT's. It's all focused around CWD. The state requires testing of all deer every year. You have to have a permit to move or transport a WT. The ranch you're transporting to all of their breeder deer have to be tested before the new deer can be dropped off. He said it's just a major pain and one reason he's getting out of the business.

Texas hasn't put those regulations on exotics...yet! He said it's coming as there's too much money for the state in fees, but a lack of agents to enforce. One reason the state is looking to add a lot of agents and game biologist.

Sounds like the world of exotics will get interesting in the years to come.


The information you were given is not correct
It's all focused around CWD. The state requires testing of all deer every year.[color:#3333FF] We are only required to test a percentage of the deer that die in the deer pens( need to stay above 80%) You have to have a permit to move or transport a WT. The ranch you're transporting to all of their breeder deer have to be tested before the new deer can be dropped off.[color:#3333FF] We are not required to test any of the deer on the site before a new deer can be introduced[/color]. He said it's just a major pain and one reason he's getting out of the business. There is a lot of paper work and documentation that must be maintained but if you keep up with it as you do thing it is not as bad as it seems its just time consuming

Texas hasn't put those regulations on exotics...yet! There is regulations on Elk and Sitka deer He said it's coming as there's too much money for the state in fees, but a lack of agents to enforce. One reason the state is looking to add a lot of agents and game biologist.


My apologies, I was simply stating what I was told by the neighbor who raises WT's and some exotics. Many thanks for clarifying!


Distance is not an issue, but the wind can make it interesting!
Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7738936 02/06/20 04:05 AM
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To me it is musical chairs or Emu etc etc all over again
There were much less deer outfits showing at Safari show this year as the sales for the spaghetti head deer. Just my opinion.


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Re: Questions on raising genetically enhanced Whitetails in TX [Re: Jeff in TX] #7739014 02/06/20 12:23 PM
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Jeff n Tx no worries I started not to even say anything I just hate someone one gave you bad info. Im a small breeder compared to most we have about 80 whitetails and it is a challenge at times. I just really enjoy raising them. Its just like what originally started this post. Keith claims to be a huge supporter of the whitetail industry but he is one that is quick to throw BS out there.

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